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Posted on 08/05/2013 11:26:07 AM PDT by xzins
Senators, representatives, and their top aides will be able to stay under the current subsidized health care system.
That means they will continue to get a taxpayer-funded contribution to help pay for their health care premiums.
A last-minute deal worked out before Congress went on their five-week summer vacation gets lawmakers out of the original language of Obamacare, which said members and their aides had to use its health care plans.
Republicans like Sen. David Vitter of Louisiana slammed the move, calling it a "behind-closed-doors deal, announced right after Congress is safely away from the crime scene."
"This is exactly why America rightly hates Washington," Vitter charged. "Obamacare's a train wreck, even for Congress. So it gets fixed -- for Congress only. What the flip about fixing it for America?"
And this is from Forbes:
“U.S. Senator Tom Coburn, one of the strongest voices against Obamacare in the Senate, had been asking for a bill to amend the law to protect staffers’ health benefits. A legislative amendment would have forced Republicans to vote for a “fix” to the law that they have pledged to repeal – and for the benefit of political staff, instead of citizens! Despite this, the President decided to shun the legislative process. This is the second incident in as many weeks.”
Like I said - apples and bowling balls. An invasion force to drive from power a foreign regime and a people being subjugated to 'fundamental transformation' BY their own government ELECTED by duped ignoramuses and ideologues - are totally different sets of 'facts' in relation to history and how a domestic people react to them.
If the Russkies or Norks parachuted into the country to conquer us via a Red Dawn scenario - then I would fully agree with your assessment of how we would react and the invaders wold not stand a freaking chance against the firepower of the citizenry.
But we're not talking about an invasion force of foreigners - we're talking about a rogue government that more than half this nation thinks is legitimate - and all it's unConstitutional acts and decrees are THE LAW OF THE LAND.
1930s Germany was very different than today's America,
Not by much. We're further down the road of debt insanity than Weimar was. The difference here is, Hitler CAPITALIZED on an opportunity to take total power. Obama and the MarxoFascists are CREATING THE OPPORTUNITY.
Until a dictatorial U.S. President figures out how to get the estimated 300,000,000 firearms out of the hands of 100,000,000 citizens, it doesn't matter how badly he wants to subjugate us through force. It can't be done.
We simply haven't hit our breaking point. The real pain and suffering hasn't hit us where we live yet. When it does, all bets are off.
The MarxoFascists are counting on it - that is why they are creating that scenario. Chaos and bloodshed will have the people screaming for someone to put things back to 'normal' and they will trade their birthright for a promise of bread.
Jefferson understood a crucial fact of human nature as noted in the Constitution "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
We are already becoming accustomed to tyranny. Any talk of resisting it is met with exclamations of incredulity and pronouncements of mental instability.
And it will, because today's crop of left-liberals doesn't know when to let up. They see what they think is the finish line, and they've abandoned their old modus operandi, which was a slow and steady, incrementalism.
Absolutely and positively correct. I think they are already there. I contend that they will make that last mistake - and at that moment we will be justified to resist by any and all means possible.
In the bargain, they've awakened the people, who are showing their alarm by pushing firearms sales into unprecedented ranges.
We will see whether or not this people have the long-term stomach for resistance. I'm sorry to say I have my doubts, we're too soft, fat and lazy - I learned that lesson myself being in a 3rd world hellhole. There is only so much we will suffer and endure because of our comfortable lives.
They're not stupid. They know we're going to snap, and they intend to be ready for it, but it's a fool's errand. The combined military forces of the planet can't overcome an armed citizenry 100 million strong, unless they resort to bombing the whole country back to the stone age.
Control the food, water, transportation and communications and organs of commerce - and you do not need to bomb a country into submission. You can starve them into it. Impoverish them into it. All under the color of law.
I'd say they're screwed any way you want to look at it.
Give us liberty or give us death... yes? We may have one option of liberty left us before it's all done - and that is to decide how we are going to go out. On our knees in a camp - or standing and dying free.
The Obama regime is not going to tolerate any dissent as time goes on, and they will use everything from food and water to all the EO's and laws to enforce it's will - all "legally". Just as John Roberts decreed ObamaCare to be.
bump
So so tired of getting mad all the time. One of these days my head is going to explode.
I agree, but that's not what you claimed. You even threw up a bunch of photos from the police manhunt after the Boston Marathon bombing to 'prove' your point that the American people will not resist a U.S. force of jack booted thugs sent to militarily suppress them.
That was disingenuous on your part, because the people of Boston voluntarily complied with what was, at the time, a government force sent to protect their lives and safety. Had that same force been sent to subjugate them through violent measures, you would have seen an entirely different response.
I will posit that the closest analog to what would happen in a martial law scenario, is the response of the thirteen colonies to the repression of the British Crown. It's not a perfect comparison, but I believe the energy and dynamics would be very similar.
In fact, they'd be much worse for the ruling class this time around, due to the fact that their jack boots would be ordered to exert violence against their fellow citizens. In the time of the revolution, the British forces probably considered the colonists to be 'the other'.
Not so with American forces of today. Their loyalties would be instantly torn by such an order, which would automatically produce mutiny up and down the ranks, and across every branch of service. An effort to impose martial law would more than likely stall right there.
But I digress. I'm addressing your original contention here, which I believe is faulty. Any attempt to subjugate the American people by force, will be met with an historic level of armed resistance. Given the lopsided odds, I wouldn't want to be a federal jack boot when it goes down. It won't end well for them.
If it ever even happens at all, which I seriously doubt.
Well isn’t that special.
Those pictures speak to that particular point more accurately than anything I can write. The American people ALREADY have proven they will not resist every effort to suppress and subjugate them - From Watertown to TSA checkpoints to Safety checkpoints to dynamic SWAT entries by cops without warrants claiming exigent circumstances - the American people suffer such evil - WILLINGLY.
You wanna fly anywhere? Then we have to be willing to be humiliated, stripped, searched, and be herded like cattle through security checkpoints.
Wanna drive anywhere? The we have to be willing to be stopped, questioned, searched and be herded like cattle through security checkpoints.
You getting any of this yet? Is it sinking in to how far we've already fallen?
That was disingenuous on your part, because the people of Boston voluntarily complied with what was, at the time, a government force sent to protect their lives and safety.
You just made my entire point by your statement. History teaches that every despotic leader and regime subjugating their own people was ALWAYS done under the guise of safety and security.
We are ALREADY being conditioned to live under militarized occupation as those pictures I posted above prove without question. You are free to call it compliance for security or whatever you want. Those SWAT teams did NOTHING to keep those Watertown residents safe, and in fact they did not locate the Jihadists there at all. Those brothers were found by ACCIDENT and blind sheer luck.
Had ANYONE dared to demand a warrant and refused entry to their home in Watertown - they would have been shot, bagged and tagged and everyone would have applauded what a great job the cops did to keep everyone safe. Same thing the Gestapo was able to do with impunity and applause. I'm sure there are stories of the NKVD and the Stasi having similar abilities and stories.
If you want to go pretend that the American people will resist being under military subjugation - be my guest. Those Watertown pictures prove to me, that if its done under the color of law or in the name of safety and security - this people will readily submit to whatever is demanded of them and they'll never even realize it's the same as if they were subjugated violently - the end result is the same.
In fact, they'd be much worse for the ruling class this time around, due to the fact that their jack boots would be ordered to exert violence against their fellow citizens. In the time of the revolution, the British forces probably considered the colonists to be 'the other'.
In the mid 1860's - our government had no problem sending troops to invade other states, and families had no problem taking up arms against one another and exerting extreme violence. So I do not know where this idea that such a horror could never happen here again, comes from. Cognitive dissonance I guess.
Not so with American forces of today. Their loyalties would be instantly torn by such an order, which would automatically produce mutiny up and down the ranks, and across every branch of service. An effort to impose martial law would more than likely stall right there.
You are making a gross mis-assumption. DHS, and Obama's army will have no such scruples. Neither will all the other alphabets. Given what Obama has done with the gay issue in the military and the ROE in the sandboxes - I'd be careful about putting your faith in yet another corrupted institution or assume a desperate and hungry military will not follow orders for the promise of bread, same as the rest.
In fact, if you talk to any current or recent Army or Marine serviceperson, they will tell you that an American military base stateside is the most disarmed place they could ever be. I'm told it is to prevent any chance of a military coup from taking place. The protocols for sidearms and weaponry on military personnel is so ridiculous and stringent that it is no wonder to me why that Jihadist at Fort Hood chose that place to wage his terrorism. As I was told, American military bases Stateside are "gun-free zones" except on the firing line - and those caches are more heavily guarded than anything else.
Any attempt to subjugate the American people by force, will be met with an historic level of armed resistance. Given the lopsided odds, I wouldn't want to be a federal jack boot when it goes down. It won't end well for them.
You're assuming Obama is just going to one day declare martial law and give shoot-to-kill orders for lack of obeisance. Doesn't work that way. The American people are ALREADY being conditioned to accept force and the threat of force for 'safety' and security reasons. How many pets get shot by militarized cops nowadays? How about terrorized residents who are unfortunate to get trigger happy cops kicking down their doors at a wrong house call or because some cop declares an exigent circumstance? DUI and sobriety checkpoints? Papers Please?
Do you honestly believe we are not already being conditioned to be subjugated? People cheer it. I just heard that Eric Holder put in a request to take over Apple Computer and run their iTunes store because Obama contends they are ripping people off. Who is going to stop that when they do so?
What about when they declare your church a bunch of child molesters and terrorists? You think anyone is going to come to defend you when the tanks and APCs show up?
Under the guise of safety and security - the people will applaud their subjugation, and even go so far as to say the armed jackboots are there to protect their lives and safety.
Human nature is one that prefers slavery to liberty. The government did not get this large and powerful because people love liberty. They love security and the notion of safety and will surrender birthrights for such. When hungry they will sell it for the promise of soup.
Human nature and history are speaking to these issues. It does not serve us at all to ignore them and beat our chests with bravado when there is plenty for us to consider the ground upon which we stand and our enemy is occupying.
Even that work around is illegal. The department that provides the funding doesn’t have the legal authority to do it.
Another example of how we no longer have a functioning legal system. Laws are made up and enforced or ignored as circumstances warrant for the elite.
You people do understand what options remain for the people now that we have rulers rather than representatives?
One is subservience. You can figure out the other.
Ok, you've completely left the conversation now, and are just reflexively throwing everything you can think of at me to 'win' an argument.
Your reply above makes absolutely no sense in the context of what we've just previously discussed.
For the second (or is it third) time, the police force that swarmed Watertown after the Boston Marathon bombing, was there to apprehend the bombers, who were at that time, a menace to the public safety. The community there willingly cooperated with them in the interests of their own security.
That force was NOT sent in to militarily subjugate that community. If they had been, you would have seen violent resistance on the part of those people.
And now I've had my fill of this. I can't talk to you if you're going to deny known facts and slip away from answering direct questions that test your assertions.
Ok, you pull one name, where are all the others you alleged?
Secondly, your link doesn’t say much about Coburn’s trying to work a special nobamacare deal for Congress and instead clarifies that nobama is trying to pull another fast move, which the timing of the leak or announcement just happens to put conservative Congress folks in a poor light.
None of us like this socialized medicine BS and it is upsetting to be told “our” Congress people are working against us behind the scenes, but I can see through this smear for what it really is, hope others can as well. Don’t buy into this!
Don’t believe Politico or any other dem sympathizers, they are not our friends.
“Why should we have to suffer with all that ObamaCare nonsense?!” - Senator Foghorn.
We can ignore the law like Barry, but I am quite sure we would end up in big trouble. Still trying to decide where my line in the sand is drawn....I am ashamed to say...
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They may take our lives, but they will never take our freedom - William Wallace.
. I will, when they come to take my freedom for an un-just law, make them pay for my life if I can. I will retain my freedom in death. I feel I am not alone in my belief.
As for Congress and staffers being exempt, this is not a surprise. God help my Country and damn its government. A storm is coming. PREPARE.
I made a point you refuse to acknowledge re: the Watertown incident.
In the NAME of safety and security - as we saw in Watertown - people will be WILLING to be run from their homes at gunpoint and offer them up to searches while the military sweeps the town for whatever they are looking for. Anyone pops up in a window that some armored cop from an APC finds threatening - BAM! One shot, one kill.
Too bad if it turns out to be a kid with a squirt gun. Right? Do we really want to accept that this is the kind of country we have to live in now? As long as we are WILLING to let the military police do as they please, we should be willing to do so to keep us safe?
Do you really trust the government and it’s alphabets to keep you safe?? Do you believe that is their job? Do you believe they think that is their job?
If so, you are far more trusting of government than I will ever be.
We are being conditioned to accept living in a police state. To believe whatever the government or the cops claim. So - if and when the government asserts some church is a bunch of child molesting domestic terrorists -a majority of folks like you who think Watertown was a good thing, will end up applauding a military shake down of a neighborhood or town again, all in the name of supposed safety and security.
So how can you say that the American people are not going to tolerate military subjugation when you just admitted that not only WILL YOU tolerate it if it’s for supposed safety and security reasons.... as long as the people are willing to cooperate with such subjugation, it’s not really subjugation?
Your own commentary here makes my point that the government does not have to send in troops for a stated purpose of conquering and subduing a people - but merely has to convince them that it is for their safety and security that they relent to whatever is demanded of them - and the people toss their rights out the window.
That was my entire point in posting the pics from Watertown in reply to your assertion that the American people would resist any military ‘occupation’. I say NO, they won’t. Because if they are led to believe it’s for their safety and security - people will WILLINGLY welcome it.
Which gets to the question of trust.
Do you trust this regime and it’s agents to be honest about whatever it is they need us to surrender our homes, our rights and our liberties for??
They could move entire populations if that is the case, under the auspices of a loose bomb or unspecified ‘imminent terror threat’ and the people will willingly hop on cattle cars, trains or buses for wherever they are told to go.
It’s like the closing of our embassies in the Mid-East this week. The government can make claims that they have unspecified but secretly specific threats that force actions to “keep us safe”. But none of us will ever really know if this was just a ploy to keep the scandals out of the news, or if Obama wanted the world to recognize his birthday - or if Al Qaeda really planned to hit our embassies.
I personally think it’s safer and more prudent to assume the worst of this government and it’s intentions, than to trust any claims it makes about our security when Obama has demonstrated to me that he and the entire cabal in Washington cannot be trusted with a damn thing. Not a DAMN thing.
I mean - what is to stop the regime from making a claim of imminent danger and force people from their homes at gunpoint like in Watertown and then make up any story or excuse they like about where they are being ‘relocated’??
I mean, a “video” caused the Benghazi uprising and massacre of our ambassador and 3 other Americans, right?? You really going to put that trust in Obama and the government after Benghazi and what we learned they are doing with the IRS, NSA PRISM, and every other scandal we do not yet know about??
Your point is that you believe the American people will resist with force any tyranny visited upon them.
My point is that the American people have already demonstrated that they will willingly comply with tyranny, especially if it is under the auspices of safety and security.
Or free health care.
Then when misery and want begin, they will do so for a mere promise of provision. Again, human nature and history speaking.
Why do you assume we are somehow exempt from that?
Those in power understand that fact of human nature and history - and they will exploit it to their advantage. In fact, they already are.
>> This says that Congress believes ObamaCare is broke.
It also shows contempt for the citizens.
There you go again. You made a mistake by conflating the Watertown incident with a hypothetical imposition of martial law, and now you're forced to construct a passably logical explanation for doing so.
It still doesn't hold water because your entire argument rests upon the assumption that the government would attempt to pacify the people by telling them that those jack booted thugs outside their doors, are only there for their protection and safety. Meanwhile, they're watching their neighbors being hauled into the street and beaten down to the ground before being hauled off to never never land.
You can post thousands of words to me if you like, but you can't knock me off topic, and I'm not going to let you off the hook for the presumptions of cowardice you've leveled at my countrymen.
For the third (or is it fourth) time now, a declaration of martial law by any wanna-be dictator in the Oval Office is going to result in:
A. An immediate and horrific breakdown in cohesion among the several branches of the U.S. military, as the troops' loyalties to their countrymen and the Constitution vs the mad dictator, break across ideological lines. Instant internal warfare would be the likely result, with a very real possibility that a significant contingent would seek to arrest and imprison the CIC for treason.
B. The immediate assumption of a war posture by the armed citizenry in this country, who number 100,000,000 strong. Even if only one in ten were to adopt that posture, you're still talking about a domestic insurgency of 10,000,000 armed and very dangerous individuals who cannot be talked down, and who will not disarm or back off until the threat to their life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, is removed.
Our entire military couldn't handle an estimated fifteen thousand Islamic insurgents in Iraq. Even with a 'no-holds-barred' ROE, what makes you think they can handle TEN MILLION armed citizens who will fight to the death to protect their families, homes, and country from a government gone mad?
As I stated before, the hard left is playing with fire here, and is bucking for the complete demise of their political power, all influence, and very possibly the continued existence of their political philosophy in this country. If they decide to go forward with the ultimate test of the people's resolve, it will end badly for them.
times like these are why the founders included the second amendment, and why the government is doing all they can to make ammo scarce
Exactly right. The most ironic thing of all, is that they brought it on themselves.
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