Posted on 08/08/2013 2:30:45 AM PDT by Olog-hai
Oh, the Sabbath hasn’t changed, and it’s made clear in the Bible that it is an eternal ordinance (Exodus 31:16)—same with the annual Sabbaths such as passover, days of unleavened bread, day of atonement et cetera. The breach of same is but one of the sins that got both Israel and Judah cast into captivity, and don’t think it won’t get the USA, Britain and the rest of professing Christendom punished for its breach. The scripture cannot be broken.
The wages of all sin is still the death penalty—Paul makes that clear in Romans 6:23, as well as the way to become free of that death penalty, which is the reason Jesus died. The ten commandments all stand; Jesus Himself was clear on that point, otherwise He would not have told the rich young man so (Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20), and He is the same throughout all time (Hebrews 13:8). As for cursing father and mother and dying for it, take note that Jesus upbraided the Pharisees for allowing people to get away with such cursing.
People who live in glass houses....
The conservatives are outside the glass house, I thought?
Well got at least give you credit for consistency when saying that the Saturday sabbath obligation ought to transfer over to the Gentile segment of the church... even if you in fact are wrong at least you are trying to be consistent.
And I believe in fact you are wrong. Acts 15 is definitive for the Gentiles. The way to step into the Jewish grace would be to become actually Jewish. The arguments for saying that Judaism transfers over to the Gentile church are so weak that they make far better sense as illustrations of holiness (the Jews were a special exhibit of holiness).
Also this parsing apart of the Mosaic covenant alone shows how suspect that approach ought to be as something which is blocking grace, rather than enabling grace. The Mosaic law is atomic, inseparable; the bible is very clear on that. You can’t go parsing in it. All or none. It served as a framework for a special exhibit of holiness during the early stage of God’s teaching the world. If not kindergarten, then at least early primary.
You also have the audacity of predicting punishment for Saturday sabbath breaking when the New Testament says it is OK to treat all days alike. There is divinely offered choice of ceremonial framework here, friend; no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It might be beneficial to some to go Jewish in a Christian framework. But friend, grace is the audacious thing. Not punishment.
In fact let me even be audacious about the role of punishment! It’s only to make us aware of the need to be in the light. Nobody can pay for their own sins, not even in hell. Christ came to show that and to solve that problem simultaneously... with grace. To deny that paradigm is to deny the very taproot of Christianity.
The New Testament says no such thing, if Romans 14 is being referred to here. It merely says that certain people do esteem all days alike, but does not say so about God. Read Romans 6:1-2 and Jude 1:4 to not be mistaken about what grace is. Trying to scrap the law, over whose breach Israel and Judah were both punished, is a doctrine too like unto the Koran—God does not change, and nobody gets away with it. If anyone is not clear that the law still stands and for eternity, also read 1 John 3:4.
No, I must disagree with your analysis!
You are looking at shadows still. Not at light.
You beg the question when you say that the righteousness of Christ is to be stuck in a particular framework of earthly law. Law was only put there as a means by which light could be expressed. Where will mother and father even BE in the eternal realms? Where will sabbath days even BE? All once-human beings will be on the same footing. Time is gone.
Let me make a bold analogy.
God made us all to be wonderful musicians. We could play any instrument we wanted with beautiful melody and skill. God asked us to play all we wanted for Him, and He’d fill us with the skill to do it. However He gave us the choice.
Well, we conspired and decided to get ugly with God. Instead of doing that beautiful music, we cut some of our fingers off. We blinded ourselves. We smoked ourselves to the point we could not even blow a flute. Then God said to various groups of us okay, you think you are so wonderful, play this or that score for me! You can’t! But we said, yes we can. So God said, Go ahead. And the predictably laughable result ensued. Then God said, I will take pity on you if you will receive my miraculous restoration. The restoration will not occur all at once, but you will gain skill as it takes place, and the music you play at the end will be wondrous. And God kept that promise.
And here we are arguing about music scores!
Nobody gets away with “sin” — but “sin” is a category that transcends law. Law is a ready metric for how well one is living in the opposite of sin which is righteousness.
The commandment of Christ is to follow Him in love. And if we are honest we will look at ourselves and say that we are bucking Him, sometimes severely! We can feel that rebellion in our own bones and sometimes, sadly, we even call it righteousness! Such jags as what you have gotten into are one example of this. But God has mercy. He will have mercy on you.
Love — THAT’S the commandment He ties us to from here into an infinite eternity. A man might even in principle be able to keep that entire “Ten Commandments” from his youth up and when God looks at him in love and asks “OK, follow Me” — refuse because he’s tied to earthly things yet.
I am not an antinomian. (Anti being against, nomian meaning law.) I am more like a nomometric. (Nomos meaning law, metric meaning measurement.) People are going to expect you to obey law here on earth because that’s the way men have attempted to frame in love. Well, usually you can but sometimes the law of love says it’s time to transcend it.
And that is why Jesus carried on the way He did. There’s no other adequate explanation!
I notice that nary a scripture is quoted in your replies. With all due respect, I’ll take God’s word over that of any human; it is clear what He says.
Well, friend, please DO go to your scripture and DO look on how Christ actually carried on, “clear” as you say!
All the “Don’t” commands He treats, He recasts as “Do” commands.
And that’s how the spirit of Christ plays out.
Think that over, go ahead and read your scripture and see if you do not agree with me with that much.
You have to “DIVIDE” the word rightly... that’s in there, “DIVIDE”... now thinking about what DIVIDE means, it says you have to apply the right thing to the right circumstance. You’re one of the many who toss the bible into a blender called “utilitarianism.” Worldly utilitarianism.
Nice. Someone should make a video.
By the way I did quote scripture I just did it in line. Like in fact all New Testament writers do... look at how that book is written. Please tell truth about me. It’s easy to complain about the negative. Can you trace the positive? If it is not yet adequate, the Lord will forgive, but we are dealing with a positive Christ. In Him every promise is yes. He never said that in Him every prohibition is no.
That would be an 8 year old white-brownie.
More examples, Do not Kill becomes Give Life! Honor your Father and Mother expands to honor them and everyone else in whatever way appropriate and possible. Do not Steal becomes Be Generous! Honor the Sabbath Day becomes honor every day. Do not commit Adultery becomes have sex as appropriate, in a wholesome manner (i.e. between committed spouses)! All of it being done for the joyful glory and honor of God, too. Expand your categories... and see if the scripture both in word and in tone backs me up here. Go look, the scripture is waiting for you. It’s exactly what you would expect out of what the Bible calls a “Life Giving Spirit.”
I.e. the things that needed commands that said “NO” simply become unthinkable. Who’d want to do those things which needed commands saying “NO” when firmly in Christ?
Now, back to our scheduled earth. There WILL be Christly participation in earthly ceremony in the future. In fact Gentiles will want to be Jews (which explains some Old Testament prophecy nicely). One funny thing I note about the debacle of the end times... not one complaint about HUMAN laws being disobeyed. Lots of killing, idolatry, fornication, sorcery, enslavements... things that grate against God’s grain... not one mention of HUMAN laws.
There is only one other tack we can take here, friend, and that is to drop the whole idea of Christ as too riddled with inconsistency to be credible. I ain’t doing that however. I’ve empirically proven Him to match up with bible promise. “You have the words of eternal life... to whom else should I go?”
I commend you on your assiduous dedication to scripture.
What I ask you to do is to look at your own mind set. Are you looking at these words with the mindset of “bless” or the mindset of “damn”?
“Bless” will see large blessings. “Damn” will minimize blessings. It’s just true.
Take the blessing challenge. Most people see God as forever wreaking vengeance when what God is doing... well let’s cut over to His word... emphasis cheerfully mine... “For God did not send His Son into the world TO CONDEMN THE WORLD... BUT that through Him the world might be SAVED.”
And I am not coming to you as some Freud fraud talking about mind set either. Does “RENEWING OF YOUR MIND” come to memory?.... in the English or the Greek or Swahili?
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