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The truth Johnny Depp wants to hide about the real-life Tontos .....
The Daily Mail Online ^ | August 18, 2013 | JONATHAN FOREMAN

Posted on 08/18/2013 4:48:36 PM PDT by Uncle Chip

The 16-year-old girl’s once-beautiful face was grotesque. She had been disfigured beyond all recognition in the 18 months she had been held captive by the Comanche Indians.

Now, she was being offered back to the Texan authorities by Indian chiefs as part of a peace negotiation.

To gasps of horror from the watching crowds, the Indians presented her at the Council House in the ranching town of San Antonio in 1840, the year Queen Victoria married Prince Albert.

‘Her head, arms and face were full of bruises and sores,’ wrote one witness, Mary Maverick. ‘And her nose was actually burnt off to the bone. Both nostrils were wide open and denuded of flesh.’

Once handed over, Matilda Lockhart broke down as she described the horrors she had endured — the rape, the relentless sexual humiliation and the way Comanche squaws had tortured her with fire. It wasn’t just her nose, her thin body was hideously scarred all over with burns.

When she mentioned she thought there were 15 other white captives at the Indians’ camp, all of them being subjected to a similar fate, the Texan lawmakers and officials said they were detaining the Comanche chiefs while they rescued the others.

It was a decision that prompted one of the most brutal slaughters in the history of the Wild West — and showed just how bloodthirsty the Comanche could be in revenge....

S C Gwynne, author of Empire Of The Summer Moon about the rise and fall of the Comanche, says simply: ‘No tribe in the history of the Spanish, French, Mexican, Texan, and American occupations of this land had ever caused so much havoc and death. None was even a close second.’.....

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: comanche; commanche; johnnydepp; loneranger; tonto
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1 posted on 08/18/2013 4:48:36 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

So much for the belief that all Indians were noble people above committing atrocities.


2 posted on 08/18/2013 4:55:48 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Inside every liberal and WOD defender is a totalitarian screaming to get out.)
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To: Uncle Chip
When she mentioned she thought there were 15 other white captives at the Indians’ camp, all of them being subjected to a similar fate, the Texan lawmakers and officials said they were detaining the Comanche chiefs while they rescued the others.

While not an unreasonable response under the circumstances, it should be noted this was a violation by the Texans of a safe conduct under flag of truce. It also wasn't a particularly good idea, as it turned out.

3 posted on 08/18/2013 4:58:36 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Uncle Chip

Wow. Eye-opening.


4 posted on 08/18/2013 5:01:03 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: Uncle Chip

bump


5 posted on 08/18/2013 5:08:32 PM PDT by chasio649
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To: Lazamataz

This reminds me of that Tommy Lee Jones/Cate Blanchett movie The Missing. In this case the girls were being kidnapped and being sold into slavery. Great movie, BTW.


6 posted on 08/18/2013 5:09:33 PM PDT by rabidralph (Gray State Movie)
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To: Uncle Chip

“...And yet he and his fellow native Americans are presented in the film as saintly victims of a Old West where it is the white settlers — the men who built America — who represent nothing but exploitation, brutality, environmental destruction and genocide...”

The indians slaughtered each other and white settlers with wanton abandon.

Only since the late 60s and 70s - when the Marxists were infiltrating ever facet of our culture - has history been rewritten to portray them as innocent victims of the evil white man.

The left has been very effective at making white people hate their own culture, heritage, and country. We’ve been painted as the root of EVERY ONE else’s problems.

Don’t buy it.

For a good record of the red man’s conduct in America, read “For A Few Acres of Snow” by Robert Leckie (”Helmet For My Pillow”), and “Tribal Wars of the Southern Plains” by Stan Hoig.

Not so peaceful, nor so innocent.


7 posted on 08/18/2013 5:10:46 PM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Uncle Chip

Wonderful post! In leftist history books, the Indians have no faults. As with Zimmerman,we need to set the record straight.


8 posted on 08/18/2013 5:12:18 PM PDT by Socon-Econ
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To: rabidralph
It was an homage to John Ford's The Searchers.
9 posted on 08/18/2013 5:12:25 PM PDT by Bratch
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To: Uncle Chip

By most accounts, it would be hard to choose which attacker would be more merciless; Comanche, Khanate Mongol or Tamburlaine Mongol, all of whom were superb light calvary. Their need was to destroy that which threatened their semi-nomadic life and customs, civilization with its farms and towns. Prisoners were only good as slaves or for trading / ransom and then only if there was no opportunity for pursuit. Each of the above were as harsh on their own members as they were on the enemy and generally they had few allies given their behavior(s).


10 posted on 08/18/2013 5:16:00 PM PDT by SES1066 (Government governs best when it governs least!)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

So much for the belief that all Indians were noble people above committing atrocities.

They also were slave owners, enslaving other tribes and weren’t above stampeding herds of buffalo over a cliff to harvest meat and hides more easily. But above all else you must remember only the White man is guilty of murder, slavery and raping the land.


11 posted on 08/18/2013 5:17:16 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: Bratch

That movie was about 2.5 hours too long :-)


12 posted on 08/18/2013 5:20:37 PM PDT by rabidralph (Gray State Movie)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

So much for the belief that all Indians were noble people above committing atrocities.


A preacher tried to convince me that the Indiginous Tribes never went to war among themselves. When they had a conflict, they would mock fight and a tap on the head was a “kill.”

He also claimed they were very cautious when hunting and wasted nothing. I got him to grudgingly back off of that one by explaining “Buffalo Jump” Montana. He still wouldn’t admit what ogrish things the tribes did to each other.


13 posted on 08/18/2013 5:21:03 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: Mastador1

Human nature is human nature is human nature...


14 posted on 08/18/2013 5:24:35 PM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,)
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To: Uncle Chip

It was a timultuous time. I'd recommend this book to anyone wanting to know more about the Comanches in central Texas.

15 posted on 08/18/2013 5:24:38 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Uncle Chip

It was a timultuous time. I'd recommend this book to anyone wanting to know more about the Comanches in central Texas.

16 posted on 08/18/2013 5:24:46 PM PDT by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: Uncle Chip

Great post.....I am a bit of a early american per-revolution history buff....

Several tribes east of the Mississippi were similar to the Comanche in cruelty....not all.... But Jesuit priests on their missionary journeys in the 1600’s were cruelly tortured in similar manner... While alive...Skin peeled off, fingers eaten off your hands, hot pokers rammed down throats, burned alive, having your beating heart ripped out of your chest and in your last dying moments watching a savage eat it....

Yeah... Them injuns were noble alright . /s


17 posted on 08/18/2013 5:27:29 PM PDT by JZoback
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To: NFHale

The left continues it today by their whitewashing, quibbling and excusing the Islamist atrocities.


18 posted on 08/18/2013 5:30:05 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Uncle Chip

I refuse to watch The Lone Ranger with Depp. It seems the movie is being pimped solely on Depp being in it as Tonto.

And yes; Indians were savage.


19 posted on 08/18/2013 5:32:21 PM PDT by rfreedom4u (I have a copy of the Constitution! And I'm not afraid to use it!)
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To: Lazamataz

My mom has never had anything good to say about FDR, JFK, MLK, or Injuns (who she refers to as Savages... rightfully so, eh?)


20 posted on 08/18/2013 5:33:07 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: Uncle Chip

No cable TV back then so torturing captives (white or Indian) was high entertainment for the most savage tribes. The Indian women would participate too. So fun stuff as carefully slitting a captives belly and carefully pulling out some of the intestines. The captive does not die quickly from this. Then cutting up part of his intestines before his eyes, roasting and chowing down on them right in front of him. All in good fun. Indian style fun.


21 posted on 08/18/2013 5:33:29 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

the moderate indians should speak out against these radical indians


22 posted on 08/18/2013 5:34:24 PM PDT by dontreadthis
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To: rabidralph
This reminds me of that Tommy Lee Jones/Cate Blanchett movie The Missing. In this case the girls were being kidnapped and being sold into slavery. Great movie, BTW

Yes, it's a great movie. I've seen it several times. Very underrated.

23 posted on 08/18/2013 5:34:26 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Governor Sarah Heath Palin for President of the United States in 2016)
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To: Uncle Chip

For cryin’ out loud. It was a movie about the Lone Ranger and Tonto. Not a political statement, imho. I heard it wasn’t even a good movie.

At the risk of being hammered...the article references a very different time in history. Everything was violent. Do I think torture was a good thing? Absolutely not. But the Indians fought amongst themselves for territorial rights in the same manner. Why would they not fight against what I’m sure they regarded as invaders taking their land.

The article references the Parkers. There is a good fictional book about Cynthia Parker’s captivity. Ride The Wind. One of my favorites.


24 posted on 08/18/2013 5:39:39 PM PDT by berdie
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

Total BS from your lib friend. Plus Indian tribes did not go to war that often against each other over hunting grounds. More often it was for successful braves to accumulate more honor-prestige. For young braves to make their bones. For braves to capture other tribes women and turn them onto baby factories and sex playmates.

One aspect of prevailing over other tribes was to have greater numbers. So capturing women and having them produce children for your clan and tribe is a good strategy


25 posted on 08/18/2013 5:41:18 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
Methinks your preacher friend was misinterpreting the Plains Indians practice of counting coup.
26 posted on 08/18/2013 5:42:19 PM PDT by Bratch
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To: dennisw

Didn’t the practice of “drawing” originate in England?


27 posted on 08/18/2013 5:43:42 PM PDT by berdie
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

It was a good movie. The book was good as well.


28 posted on 08/18/2013 5:45:27 PM PDT by berdie
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To: berdie

“But the Indians fought amongst themselves for territorial rights in the same manner.”

Not as often as you would think. This continent was thinly populated with not much pressure on resources such as hunting grounds. Tribes went to war for the sake of going to war. Warriors-braves wanted war so they could return home successfully with more prestige within the tribal hierarchy and return with captured females


29 posted on 08/18/2013 5:45:36 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: NFHale
The left has been very effective at making white people hate their own culture, heritage, and country. We’ve been painted as the root of EVERY ONE else’s problems. Don’t buy it.

Plenty of white conservative and Christians are buying it. They buy it every day their children attend institutional schooling.

Remember! Nearly every teacher in this nation ( private and government) from pre-K through graduate school were trained by godless Marxists in Marxist run colleges and universities.

30 posted on 08/18/2013 5:47:13 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: berdie

From the article, the movie changed him to Comanche, and made it political and racial.

“”‘All the men were killed, and any men who were captured alive were tortured; the captive women were gang raped. Babies were invariably killed.’
Not that you would know this from the new Lone Ranger movie, starring Johnny Depp as the Indian Tonto.
For reasons best know to themselves, the film-makers have changed Tonto’s tribe to Comanche — in the original TV version, he was a member of the comparatively peace-loving Potowatomi tribe.
And yet he and his fellow native Americans are presented in the film as saintly victims of a Old West where it is the white settlers — the men who built America — who represent nothing but exploitation, brutality, environmental destruction and genocide.””


31 posted on 08/18/2013 5:47:58 PM PDT by ansel12 ( The difference between libertarianism and conservatism is radical social leftism, not economics)
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To: berdie

This is your lame way of saying Europeans were as savage as the American Indians? Have you read about the scale of Aztec human sacrifice to their sun god. The conquistadors rightfully decimated that band of devils and when they did the Aztec’s neighboring tribes rejoiced. In fact they helped the conquistadors win


32 posted on 08/18/2013 5:50:12 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Uncle Chip

http://archive.org/details/indianbattleswit00whituoft


33 posted on 08/18/2013 5:57:02 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Lk 16:31 And he said unto him If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will theybe persuaded)
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To: Uncle Chip

http://archive.org/details/redeemedcaptive01willgoog


34 posted on 08/18/2013 5:57:48 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Lk 16:31 And he said unto him If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will theybe persuaded)
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To: Uncle Chip

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1042&context=etas


35 posted on 08/18/2013 5:58:49 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Lk 16:31 And he said unto him If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will theybe persuaded)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Yes, very underrated.


36 posted on 08/18/2013 5:59:05 PM PDT by rabidralph (Gray State Movie)
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To: ansel12

The point I was trying to make is this. I watched the Lone Ranger as a kid. Until I read this article, I had no idea what tribe the original Tonto was from.

This is much ado about nothing.

The movie probably flopped because most young people don’t even know there was a tv series about the lone Ranger.


37 posted on 08/18/2013 5:59:11 PM PDT by berdie
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To: dennisw

Just today I was trying to remember if it was the Aztecs or the Mayas that did the heart eating/human sacrifice thing, that the conquistadors saw and then vowed to stop.

I’m pretty bad with remembering the difference between Aztecs and Mayas.


38 posted on 08/18/2013 6:01:44 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: dennisw

Strange thing..I don’t find that pointing out the barbarism in the past, by any culture, as lame.

And yes..the Europeans of the past have been just as brutal.

It’s getting so hard to post, I think I may give up for the evening. ;(


39 posted on 08/18/2013 6:05:01 PM PDT by berdie
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To: Uncle Chip

http://www.reclinercommentaries.com/2011/04/fate-worse-than-death.html


40 posted on 08/18/2013 6:07:54 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Lk 16:31 And he said unto him If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will theybe persuaded)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
So much for the belief that all Indians were noble people above committing atrocities.

But then, hey look at the U.S Calvary and the federalized Colorado Volunteers in Chivington. Or what do Sand Creek and the Washita River mean to the Cheyennes?
41 posted on 08/18/2013 6:13:04 PM PDT by righttackle44 (Take scalps. Leave the bodies as a warning.)
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To: little jeremiah

Aztecs = grand scale human sacrifice
Mayans = small scale


42 posted on 08/18/2013 6:14:41 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Socon-Econ
Yeah! Let's set the record straight: The Washita River massacre under Custer and the Sand Creek massacre under Chivington. Let's set the record real clear.
43 posted on 08/18/2013 6:15:19 PM PDT by righttackle44 (Take scalps. Leave the bodies as a warning.)
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To: dennisw

read about the pequot war, the wars against the Mohegans and Niantics, often spelled nehantics

The reason so many helped John Mason attack the pequot fort was because the Pequots were slaughtering the mohegans and Nehantics


44 posted on 08/18/2013 6:16:32 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Lk 16:31 And he said unto him If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will theybe persuaded)
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To: Uncle Chip

I picked this book up in a small town store. I have ever time I see it somewhere buy all they have and give them away. Great book.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1224046.The_Boy_Captives

In 1871, eleven year old Clinton and his nine year old brother Jefferson were captured by Comanche raiders near their West Texas farm. Jefferson was soon sold to none other than the legendary Apache warrior Geronimo, while Clinton was adopted by Comanche Chief Tasacowadi. For over five years they lived among the two most notorious warrior tribes in North America during one of the most tumultuous eras in American history.


45 posted on 08/18/2013 6:18:53 PM PDT by razorback-bert (I'm in shape. Round is a shape isn't it?)
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To: Uncle Chip
My football coach was Comanche and his Father was the Chief. . I lived on the Red River just South of Comanche County, Oklahoma. My neighbors were directly descended from Quanah Parker. Many of my classmates get monthly checks from the Comanche Casinos and are members of the tribe. The oral history of the Comanche is quite interesting but brutal. The history of Quanah Parker and his Mother is much like the one explored here. Quanah Parker was the last Comanche Chief to lead a war party against the US Cavalry and be successful. Later in life he led his tribe peacefully into the US.
46 posted on 08/18/2013 6:20:44 PM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: RaceBannon

Pequots (Mashentucket) now own the biggest Indian casino in America


47 posted on 08/18/2013 6:22:30 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Sherman Logan
this was a violation by the Texans of a safe conduct ...not exactly one sided though.. these chiefs had been denying they held this girl, or any others captive for over two years...so it was they who violated the terms ...
48 posted on 08/18/2013 6:24:54 PM PDT by virgil283 (When the sun spins, the cross appears, and the skies burn red)
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To: Sherman Logan
this was a violation by the Texans of a safe conduct ...not exactly one sided though.. these chiefs had been denying they held this girl, or any others captive for over two years...so it was they who violated the terms ...
49 posted on 08/18/2013 6:24:59 PM PDT by virgil283 (When the sun spins, the cross appears, and the skies burn red)
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To: Uncle Chip

They were hard people living in a hard land. I don’t hate them, and I don’t feel sorry for them. In the words of the great philosopher, Captain Ron, “Yeah, we’ll s**t happens.”


50 posted on 08/18/2013 6:31:16 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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