This is the Weekly Investment & Finance Thread (August-19-23 edition)---- Posted on 08/19/2013 2:53:27 AM PDT by expat_panama
This is the Weekly Investment & Finance Thread (August-19-23 edition)----
Trying to focus on the markets for today and each day and the economic news
This is where you can exchange some investment opinions and advice
If you see another FR economic thread you like and want to link to it here, please do
Post your favorite economic site links. Your favorite economic blogs and precious metals blogs and sites
Ping list -- on or off let me know here or via freep-mail. If I missed you then Freep-mail me
I might ping you to other interesting economic threads a few times a week. One per day maybe
Sites that posters have recommended ------
| Mutual funds: Top-Performing Mutual Funds by Category-Kiplinger Best Mutual Funds | US News Best Funds Most Popular Funds (you can look at their Holdings). this one?
Oil and Gas Industry Treasury Basics.. All things forex from different sources. Lots of forums for traders Dividends...
CPA’s.... |
I’m not taking sides on this but HFT doesn’t seem to help ME personally so I’m still on the sidelines on this issue.
Sounds good. I was reacting to how three hours ago it looked like you were bundling no-useful-purpose HFT’s with “gov’t spying and hacking and data mining and punishing political opponents shenanigans”. I like sidelines better.
Me? I have no idea or info about that. Maybe I need some coffee and go back and see what I did post.
Hey, you got me mixed up with MichaelCorleone.
I've watched yt videos (attention span isn't good for long ones) about various programs. I doubt ST would let me use one anyway.
It's just nice to know all you can. It's not the cheat factor (arguable) but it seems more of a challenge to do it yourself, find your own run ups, put your money on the line yourself; don't funnel it through proprietary software (probably do anyway lol). The whole system is pretty amazing, was trying to imagine in my head how all the various hubs interface, move it on, matter of seconds.
Hey, I think someone who worked for MSFT wrote one of those. Those extra pennies or two or more add up when you buy market.
I guess I didn't understand how you were making money for your clients with HFT. Maybe I misunderstood.
Unless it's some kind of option, I think even those for every sell there has to be a matching buy and vice versa. So to drive the price up, the MM's can maniipulate but has to be more than that. I'm thinking there have to be a flood of buys in the queue compared to sells, takes only a few seconds longer, but I don't know if I'm right or not. Maybe it's all pixie dust.
Trying to understand what you're saying.
So last week you wanted to buy a hundred shares of Green Mountain Coffee for $76.38 each and you felt cheated 'cause a HFTer sold you the lot for just $76,37.50. Now today you had your heart set on selling them for $85.49 each but some mean ol' HFTer forced you to accept $8,549.50.
I mean, can't you just give me the extra dollar and pretend?
Wait second, this isn't facebook?
My only reason for mentioning HFT was that the effects of it have contributed to investor's loss of confidence in the stock market. Flash crashes and freeze crashes and large movements in a stock with no real technical, fundamental, or news related reason gives the impression Wall Street is little more than a casino.
I am not against making money! Nor am I opposed to innovative ways of making money. BTW, I got long TLT two days ago with satisfactory results so far. I'm looking for a bounce to at least 105 before taking money off the table. What do you think, Valentine?
“Sounds good. I was reacting to how three hours ago it looked like you were bundling no-useful-purpose HFT’s with “gov’t spying and hacking and data mining and punishing political opponents shenanigans”. I like sidelines better.”
I just saw this so I wanted to follow-up. I didn’t mean to try to somehow link gov’t spying and other 4A violations with private HFT strategies, and the latest ‘glitch’ in the NASDAQ. What serves no useful purpose is decaf coffee in the morning! Can’t seem to think right without a good strong one...
I'm trying to get it clear in my head why prices rise and fall BECAUSE you put out a sell, there will be a buyer. Put out a buy, there will be a seller to you, usually in a matter of seconds. Sometimes my order is broken up into smaller lots to fulfill but that doesn't matter, no extra transaction fee even if it takes 3 or 4 lots to fill. I think float has something to do with prices and I need to read up again on that. Sometimes I see prices go up or down so fast it is amazing, you'd better have a trade ready in advance to hope to catch it and then you'll be off a couple of seconds unless you have a stop quote or limit in place. It doesn't happen very often. But I've watched it happen, My time and sales windows would show huge dumps; usually they only happen near closing or after hours. I don't know the why of that either.
I think HFT's are cheating (the use of, not the financial exchange), but as long as we can still compete with them and sharper traders and come out ahead, I can live with it. I didn't think of this that follows but it makes sense. In some ways we small traders (about 20% of the market) have an advantage over institutional traders. Even so as another experienced trader said, the market is rigged against the little guy so we have to "ride the coattails" of the big traders.
Also I need to read up on market makers. I've read they are clever and out to get more of your money than they need to. Somebody told me if I wanted to be a good trader, I have to understand how the market works. I do but I think the person meant in greater depth. There's so much to all this.
Maybe it's not the tech bugs that give that impression but rather media political bias. BipolarBob was telling us back in post 58 about how pundits were immediately blaming the problem on business greed/theft/cheating, but later the word from NASDAQ.COM is they found and fixed a connection fault between one of the exchanges and the central info processors:
...price quotes were not being disseminated by the Securities Information Processor (SIP), which consolidates and disseminates all prices for the industry. There was a connectivity issue between an exchange participant and the SIP, which led to degradation in the ability of the SIP to disseminate consolidated quotes and trades. The cause of the issue has been identified and addressed. Responding to the SIP issue, in order to protect the integrity of the markets, NASDAQ OMX issued a regulatory halt for all trading in NASDAQ-listed securities. In the first 30 minutes, technical issues with the SIP were resolved. For the remaining period of time, NASDAQ OMX, other exchanges, regulators and market participants coordinated with each other to ensure an orderly re-opening of trading in NASDAQ-listed securities. Trading resumed and the balance of the trading day finished in normal course.
NASDAQ OMX will work with other exchanges that are members of the SIP to investigate the issues of today, and we will support any necessary steps to enhance the platform.
Whom would they be cheating? You and I come out ahead with on the deal
trying to get it clear in my head why prices rise and fall BECAUSE you put out a sell
If you offer to sell stuff at a lower price and transaction goes though when someone takes you up on it, then the latest transacted price is lower than the previous 'because' of your sell order. Then again, your sell can 'make' prices climb if you ask a higher price and wait long enough. Then again, it kind of gets to the point where the which-causes-which question becomes less important than just what's happening and what are we doing.
I don't see how we come out ahead. They drive prices down but I suppose they could drive them up so they even out in the end. However I don't think it's HFT's that are messing up my best stock as much as massive shorting. The shorting is driving the price down. Good fundamentals, earnings, etc.
OK, I get it. I was thinking in terms of volume and balance whereas it's determined by price offered. Gaps must come in there somewhere. I don't know how gaps up and down can happen and doubt the small investor can make them happen, not sure.
Thanks for the tutorial ;-). My stocks are languishing. I'll try to tough it out.
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