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Sticker Shock Often Follows Insurance Cancellation
AP ^ | 11/2/13 | Kelli Kennedy

Posted on 11/02/2013 7:12:48 PM PDT by Lmo56

MIAMI (AP) -- Dean Griffin liked the health insurance he purchased for himself and his wife three years ago and thought he'd be able to keep the plan even after the federal Affordable Care Act took effect ...

The Griffins, who live near Philadelphia on the Delaware border, pay $770 monthly for their soon-to-be-terminated health care plan with a $2,500 deductible. The cheapest plan they found on their state insurance exchange was a so-called bronze plan charging a $1,275 monthly premium with deductibles totaling $12,700. It covers only providers in Pennsylvania, so the couple wouldn't be able to see the doctors in Delaware whom they've used for more than a decade.

"We're buying insurance that we will never use and can't possibly ever benefit from. We're basically passing on a benefit to other people who are not otherwise able to buy basic insurance," said Griffin, who is retired from running an information technology company ...

They can buy different policies directly from insurers for 2014 or sign up for plans on state insurance exchanges. While lower-income people could see lower costs because of government subsidies, many in the middle class may get rude awakenings when they access the websites and realize they'll have to pay significantly more.

Those not eligible for subsidies generally receive more comprehensive coverage than they had under their soon-to-be-canceled policies, but they'll have to pay a lot more.

Because of the higher cost, the Griffins are considering paying the federal penalty - about $100 or 1 percent of income next year - rather than buying health insurance. They say they are healthy and don't typically run up large health care costs. Dean Griffin said that will be cheaper because it's unlikely they will get past the nearly $13,000 deductible for the coverage to kick in.

(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: aca; buyersremorse; obamacare; obamadoesntcare; stickershock
The dirty little secret is that subsidies DON'T kick in on a monthly basis - they are kicked back to you in the NEXT tax year.

So, for Ken Davis [mentioned in the article], his premimum WILL NOT be $600/month - but will be $1100/month for 2014 [which he can't afford]. He'll get $6000 kicked back to him as a refund after Jan. 1st 2015.

And, the possible pitfall is that when people receive thousands off dollars in a single check as a refund - they are gonna blow it all instead of banking it to pay for the next year's premium on a monthly basis ...

1 posted on 11/02/2013 7:12:48 PM PDT by Lmo56
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To: Lmo56

That is incorrect

The subsidy (aka your and my tax money) is sent to the insurance company and the insured person only pays the difference.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/2013/1001/Obamacare-101-how-the-federal-subsidy-works-video


2 posted on 11/02/2013 7:14:17 PM PDT by nascarnation (Frequently wrong but rarely in doubt....)
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To: Lmo56

A Plan to destroy American Healthcare, demoralize
doctors and bioengineers, and to put computers
and criminal illegals (Peru and other countries)
in charge of fleecing $$$$$ from sick Americans.

And... it was spawned in a US prison, and was never
even read by Congress.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?


3 posted on 11/02/2013 7:15:30 PM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: Lmo56

Had the Associated “Press” been doing their job this nightmare would never have become law.


4 posted on 11/02/2013 7:22:04 PM PDT by Thom Pain (U.S. Constitution is a CONTRACT! : $70 TRILLION unfunded...)
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To: Lmo56

Merry Christmas from your friendly Federal Government.


5 posted on 11/02/2013 7:22:21 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (All your health decisions should be between a provider bean counter and the IRS - Obama)
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To: nascarnation

There are 2 ways to get the subsidy - sent to your insurance company ahead of time OR in your refund.

You are playing with fire if you have it sent to your insurance company. Read the following carefully:

http://healthinsurance.about.com/od/reform/a/How-Does-The-Premium-Tax-Credit-Health-Insurance-Subsidy-Work.htm


6 posted on 11/02/2013 7:27:39 PM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: Lmo56

I’ll wager you that 95% plus will take the subsidy up front.


7 posted on 11/02/2013 7:30:14 PM PDT by nascarnation (Frequently wrong but rarely in doubt....)
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To: nascarnation

If those people take the subsidy upfront, work by the hour, and get more overtime going over the 400% FPL [due to less people being hired], they are screwed ...


8 posted on 11/02/2013 7:33:56 PM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: Lmo56

You’re using information and logic, items not often prevalent in the “subsidy” population....


9 posted on 11/02/2013 7:35:46 PM PDT by nascarnation (Frequently wrong but rarely in doubt....)
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To: Lmo56
You are wrong on your post.
The “tax credit” is “prefunded” based on income projections and predictions.
The entire point of the goofy “online exchange” is to get income figures first, and then “prefund” the credits.
I am a certified ACA agent, but I am trying hard not to sell very man of these things.
10 posted on 11/02/2013 7:41:13 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Lmo56

Obama lied.

I’m afraid unhealthy Americans may die.

I don’t know when the looney liberal left thought his lies were suddenly going to become “truth”.


11 posted on 11/02/2013 7:42:36 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: Lmo56
Actually, you can only GET the credit, under current regs, if you use the online system, or “exchange”.
You can buy the exact same policy “off exchange” but you will not receive any credit, under current regs, if you buy the same policy “off exchange”.
12 posted on 11/02/2013 7:43:13 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58

Thanks for your post confirming what I posted.

I have seen this misrepresented dozens of times on FR and try to correct it when I see it.

Outrage against Obamacare is one thing, but we need to try and maintain accuracy.


13 posted on 11/02/2013 7:44:39 PM PDT by nascarnation (Frequently wrong but rarely in doubt....)
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To: Lmo56
I am an agent.
I have asked if my “malpractice” or Errors and Omissions insurance will cover me, if I get sued by some idiot who gives me bad income figures or someone who gets married/divorced, wins the lottery, gets a raise, gets a new job etc.
They will “claw back” any prefunded credit or subsidy at tax time, if you do not deserve it under Obamacare rules.
14 posted on 11/02/2013 7:45:19 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Lmo56
RE :”Because of the higher cost, the Griffins are considering paying the federal penalty - about $100 or 1 percent of income next year - rather than buying health insurance. “

For the tax to be ~ $100 they would be making $10,000 or less per year. If they make $50K its $500 and if making $100K its $1000.

Still cheap compared to Obamacare.

The Good news is the IRS is not allowed to punish us for not paying the tax. Little they can do,

Resist, don't comply

15 posted on 11/02/2013 7:59:20 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position)
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To: Lmo56

That’s interesting, I never heard that.

That would cause big problems.


16 posted on 11/02/2013 8:00:12 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position)
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To: Thom Pain

Your not kidding. I have come to realize that I don’t despise Obama as much as I do the press that did not do it’s job when the time was right. Obama would never have been nominated but for a compliant press.


17 posted on 11/02/2013 8:08:14 PM PDT by BBell (The Blue Dog is Stupid)
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To: nascarnation
I'm not going to bet about imaginary percentages.

What I do want everyone to think carefully about is what happens in 2015 (but only after the 2014 elections).
When the people who are currently covered under an employer based plan, also get a taste of the new rate sticker shock, but are ineligible for any tax subsidies, no matter their income level, if they elect to decline their employers plan.

The goal of the Feds and the holy grail to Democrats is a “single payer” system.
Full blown, low quality, government approved, free medical care for everyone except government employees.
“They” will get special doctors and hospital care unavailable to the masses, because they are vital to the nation.

I believe I have gleaned that the targeted tax goal is an additional 20% on every nongovernmental employee.
Got a paycheck?
Hand it over.The Feds and Democrats will decide how much you deserve to get back, and are allowed to live on.

This includes all the deluded minimum wage unskilled workers who think the greedy rich people and businesses are evil and cheating them out of what they deserve.

18 posted on 11/02/2013 8:09:05 PM PDT by sarasmom (Extortion 17. A large number of Navy SEALs died on that mission. Ask why.)
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To: KANSAS; nascarnation
Thanks for your post confirming what I posted.

I have seen this misrepresented dozens of times on FR and try to correct it when I see it.

Outrage against Obamacare is one thing, but we need to try and maintain accuracy.

GEE - I guess I, too, should get certified BEFORE reading the IRS Regs:

From:

http://www.irs.gov/uac/The-Premium-Tax-Credit

***** Getting the Credit

To qualify for the credit, you must get insurance through the Marketplace.

During enrollment through the Marketplace, using information you provide about your projected income and family composition for 2014, the Marketplace will estimate the amount of the Premium Tax Credit you will be able to claim for the 2014 tax year that you will file in 2015.

You will then decide whether you want to have all, some or none of your estimated credit paid in advance directly to your insurance company.

Change in Circumstances

Report income and family size changes to the Marketplace throughout the year. Reporting changes will help make sure you get the proper type and amount of financial assistance and will help you avoid getting too much or too little in advance. Receiving too much or too little in advance can affect your refund or balance due when you file your 2014 tax return in 2015.

For example, if you do not report income or family size changes to the Marketplace when they happen in 2014, the advance payments may not match your actual qualified credit amount on your federal tax return that you will file in 2015. This might result in a smaller refund or balance due.

Claiming the Credit on Your Federal Tax Return

For any tax year, if you receive advance credit payments in any amount or if you plan to claim the premium tax credit, you must file a federal income tax return for that year.

If you choose to get it now: When you file your 2014 tax return in 2015, you will subtract the total advance payments you received during the year from the amount of the Premium Tax Credit calculated on your tax return. If the Premium Tax Credit computed on the return is more than the advance payments made on your behalf during the year, the difference will increase your refund or lower the amount of tax you owe. If the advance credit payments are more than the Premium Tax Credit, the difference will increase the amount you owe and result in either a smaller refund or a balance due.

If you choose to get it later: You will claim the full amount of the Premium Tax Credit when you file your 2014 tax return in 2015. This will either increase your refund or lower your balance due.

More Information

More detailed information about the credit is available in our Questions and Answers.

In addition, the Department of the Treasury and the IRS issued the following legal guidance related to the Premium Tax Credit:

•Final regulations on the rules for individuals who enroll in qualified health plans through Marketplaces and claim the Premium Tax Credit.

•Final regulations on the Premium Tax Credit affordability test for related individuals.

•Proposed regulations on determining minimum value of eligible employer-sponsored plans and other rules regarding the Premium Tax Credit.

•Notice 2013-41 on determining whether or when individuals are considered eligible for coverage under certain Medicaid, Medicare, CHIP, TRICARE, student health or state high risk pool programs.

An electronic flyer entitled "Facts about the Premium Tax Credit" (Publication 5120) is available for public use and distribution.

19 posted on 11/02/2013 8:14:51 PM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: Kansas58

Check Post #19 - didn’t get your nick correct ...


20 posted on 11/02/2013 8:18:03 PM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: sickoflibs

“The Good news is the IRS is not allowed to punish us for not paying the tax. Little they can do,”


Since you left it trailing off like that let me finish..

“Little they can do, for now. “

There finished for you. Obama will fix this problem. You can bank on it.


21 posted on 11/02/2013 8:45:24 PM PDT by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: Lmo56

Barack Obama is the AntiChrist, and Democrats are his loyal Demons.


22 posted on 11/02/2013 8:46:44 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: nascarnation

I don’t know, I also read that the subsidy was paid in the form of a tax refund or rebate. Kind of like a rebate on a purchase of a computer or camera or something. You pay full price and get the rebate later.


23 posted on 11/02/2013 8:57:06 PM PDT by Eva
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To: Thom Pain

Had voters been paying attention, they would have known most of the negative aspects of Obamacare, if not the details. Betsy McCaughey did a series of articles for the WSJ and the paper also provide a special index for information about the Obamacare law. Apparently very few people were paying attention.


24 posted on 11/02/2013 8:59:36 PM PDT by Eva
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To: Lmo56
Hey, Dean - ObamaDoesntCare!

He'll be able to keep his health care plan. You & your wife can eat cake...

25 posted on 11/02/2013 9:02:13 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: cableguymn
RE :”There finished for you. Obama will fix this problem. You can bank on it.”

Only if he takes back the House and keeps the Senate.
But since that is looking more and more impossible every day my comment stands.

That wont happen while Obama is in the WH.

26 posted on 11/02/2013 9:09:05 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position)
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To: Lmo56
GeckoCare photo GeckoCare_zps0b35ff4e.jpg
27 posted on 11/02/2013 9:23:37 PM PDT by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: Eva
I don’t know, I also read that the subsidy was paid in the form of a tax refund or rebate. Kind of like a rebate on a purchase of a computer or camera or something. You pay full price and get the rebate later.

Seriously? If true, there are gonna be some really, really POed people.

None of this can possibly be a surprise to the "planners". So, naturally, the question is-what phase of the plan are we moving to next?

28 posted on 11/02/2013 9:24:15 PM PDT by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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To: sickoflibs

Your kidding right?

Has ANY of that stopped him from changing Obamacare? or ignoring laws he does not like? or making laws he does like up out of thin air?

Trust me, congress is not needed for Obama to fix this little bump in the road.


29 posted on 11/02/2013 9:31:48 PM PDT by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: Eva
Apparently very few people were paying attention.

C'mon, get real! People not paying attention in America? nah /s

And guess what else? "Sticker Shock" isn't covered by 0bamaRobertscare.

30 posted on 11/02/2013 9:32:56 PM PDT by citizen (There is always free government cheese in the mouse trap.....https://twitter.com/kracker0)
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To: Lmo56

Some left wing idiot on Hannity used the analogy of buying a used car without looking under the hood to having a “bad” policy. After you buy it you discover there’s no engine in it. I still can’t figure out what the hell he was trying to say.


31 posted on 11/02/2013 9:58:13 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: cableguymn
RE :”Trust me, congress is not needed for Obama to fix this little bump in the road.”

No I cant trust you when you post silliness.

The law specifically forbids the IRS from doing what you suggest they will.

Americans need to know the truth so they resist and dont sign up.

We will never win if everyone is terrified of Obama punishing them for resisting him and they all comply. Your dream stuff is helping Obama.

32 posted on 11/02/2013 9:58:24 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position)
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To: Lmo56

We are circling the drain more and more often, faster and faster. Collapse is imminent. When the entitled stop being paid, the riots, bloodshed, and starvation will begin. I’m just about ready to start hoarding perishables.


33 posted on 11/02/2013 10:03:27 PM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: sickoflibs

ya. and?

Did that stop Obama with DOMA? No..
Did that stop Obama with the work requirement in welfare? No..
Did that stop Obama with the employer mandate? No..

DO you really think a law is going to stop Obama or HHS from telling the IRS to collect the money? I don’t. And your foolish to think it would.


34 posted on 11/02/2013 10:10:48 PM PDT by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: cableguymn

Why are you so scared of resisting Obama?

If the founders spent all the time you do worrying that the British could do stuff they couldn’t do, we still would be under rule from England. Thank god they had courage.

Stop trying to scare people into doing what Obama tells them to do.


35 posted on 11/02/2013 10:19:04 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position)
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To: sickoflibs

WTF are you typing about?

Me scaring people in to doing what Obama wants?

You need to cut back on what ever you are taking.

You said a law would stop obama. I simply replied “no, it won’t” I never once said “Do what Obama wants you to”, at that point you started typing for me.

Don’t try to turn me in to an Obama supporter.


36 posted on 11/02/2013 10:32:16 PM PDT by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: cableguymn
RE :”Me scaring people in to doing what Obama wants?”

Stop trying to scare people into signing up for Obamacare which he needs to fund it.

You are doing Obama’s work. He is calling for the same thing as you.

Instead join the good side and tell them to resist and not comply.

You can still be saved as we can save them too.

37 posted on 11/02/2013 10:38:01 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position)
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To: Lmo56

Every one of these people used as examples of the terror that is Obamacare should disclose their Party Affiliation and their Voting History in the last three Election cycles.

It will help me determine how much I give a crap about their problems.


38 posted on 11/02/2013 10:42:13 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Good news, Federal Funding for my Tagline has been restored. Crisis averted.)
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To: Lmo56
Dean Griffin liked the health insurance he purchased for himself and his wife three years ago and thought he'd be able to keep the plan even after the federal Affordable Care Act took effect ... The Griffins, who live near Philadelphia on the Delaware border, pay $770 monthly for their soon-to-be-terminated health care plan with a $2,500 deductible. The cheapest plan they found on their state insurance exchange was a so-called bronze plan charging a $1,275 monthly premium with deductibles totaling $12,700. It covers only providers in Pennsylvania, so the couple wouldn't be able to see the doctors in Delaware whom they've used for more than a decade.

It's just amazing the Democrats all say with a straight face it is good the old plans are being cancelled and replaced with these new plans because the old plans didn't provide them with any real coverage and people will be far better off with the new plans. Their dishonesty never ceases to be extraordinary.

39 posted on 11/02/2013 11:56:29 PM PDT by Republican Wildcat
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To: Lmo56

Who did the Griffins vote for in the last two presidential elections, and both Senate and House elections?

I’d like to know.


40 posted on 11/03/2013 12:44:17 AM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Lazamataz
Barack Obama is the AntiChrist, and Democrats are his loyal Demons.

The frightening thing is that you are wrong. Obama is pure evil and hates America and Americans with a passion that is incomprehensible, but the AntiChrist will not be lazy or stupid. Some day, we or our children will face someone just as evil but far more intelligent and energetic. Our best hope during this crisis is that Obama is not energetic enough to follow through consistently on his malice. The next time around will be even worse.

41 posted on 11/03/2013 1:58:37 AM PST by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: Lmo56
How true! Just one of Obama's dirty little secrets! The press allows them to talk about subsidies as if they are paid for with "magic beans, not hard earned wages of people who go to work every day! Democrats give examples of individuals who will benefit from the ACA because their premiums will be cheaper. The first question should be how much the taxpayer is paying for that premium. Don't let them get away with saying a young guy will now pay "$50 for insurance"! Ask, "$50 + subsidy = what?

Stop allowing Democrats to represent the ACA as so generous and heart warming! Make them admit that it's good for some and brutal for others. The biggest problem is it demonizes the very portion of society that is contributing to the economy - the working class!

In the past, consumers could get relatively inexpensive, bare-bones coverage, but those plans will no longer be available.

When they were campaigning for the law, they demonized "bare bones", or "catastrophic" coverage, accusing insurance companies of dirty dealing by offering it! Now, the very plans they are offering people under Obamacare are "bare-bones, catastrophic plans", that may cover more stuff, but only after a person has spent a large amount of money to qualify for reimbursement.

42 posted on 11/03/2013 3:18:11 AM PST by REPANDPROUDOFIT (November can't come soon enough!)
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To: Lmo56

My insurance just got cancelled and cheapest plan is 300 a month


43 posted on 11/03/2013 3:19:45 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave ofo attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: GlockThe Vote

I meant more amonth


44 posted on 11/03/2013 3:20:04 AM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave ofo attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Eva

I can’t imagine any of the sheeple reading the WSJ. They get their “news” from TMZ and Facebook


45 posted on 11/03/2013 6:22:10 AM PST by Thom Pain (U.S. Constitution is a CONTRACT! : $70 TRILLION unfunded...)
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To: Lmo56

95% of enrollees eligible for the “subsidy” (aka your and my tax money being redistributed on their behalf to insurance companies) will take it up front.

That’s my prediction.


46 posted on 11/03/2013 6:56:48 AM PST by nascarnation (Frequently wrong but rarely in doubt....)
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To: riri

Someone posted te actual wording of the law later on in the thread. Apparently, the law provides for either method of payment of the subsidy. The Feds prefer the income tax rebate method because if the insured makes more than he claims, there is no mechanism to collect the money.

Also, in the article that I read, they said that deductible portion of the costs, if not paid to the doctors, would be deducted from the subsidy rebate from the IRS.


47 posted on 11/03/2013 8:45:05 AM PST by Eva
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To: Eva
Interesting, thanks for consolidating the bits I had read in the thread.

The infantilization of society marches on.

48 posted on 11/03/2013 8:58:54 AM PST by riri (Plannedopolis-look it up. It's how the elites plan for US to live.)
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