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Stasi, KGB were child’s play compared to today
Deutsche Welle ^ | 11.01.2013 | Andreas Illmer

Posted on 11/03/2013 8:56:57 PM PST by Olog-hai

It seems that every day brings new claims and counter-claims about who’s spying on whom. Governments are trying to limit the damage, but that damage is not limited to governments, expert Jeremie Zimmermann told DW.

… It’s something of historical amplitude and we still need to take some distance to be able to understand what is exactly going on. What we see is the unraveling of the very infrastructure for a total surveillance society that we are realizing, day by day, is already deployed all around the world under our feet. The infrastructure for surveilling everything about everybody all the time. What we’ve seen in totalitarian regimes when societies were being surveilled—we can think of the Stasi or of the KGB—were child’s play compared to what we are witnessing today. …

(Excerpt) Read more at dw.de ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: alliances; bnd; espionage; nsa; yeswescan

1 posted on 11/03/2013 8:56:57 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Secretly OCCUPIED country...


2 posted on 11/03/2013 8:59:00 PM PST by gaijin
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To: Olog-hai

Don’t people know: the KGB was the USSR’s far less competent intelligence agency. The GRU was quietly much more effective. Maybe that’s why they are still not well known.


3 posted on 11/03/2013 9:02:58 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Indeed, the GRU still exists with the same name as well.


4 posted on 11/03/2013 9:04:14 PM PST by Monty22002
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To: nickcarraway

They still exist today, too.


5 posted on 11/03/2013 9:05:58 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

It’s called the NSA.


6 posted on 11/03/2013 9:06:15 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Olog-hai; Monty22002; dfwgator

I would still be much more worried about the GRU. The head of the MI5 from 1956 to 1965 was likely a GRU mole and he got away with it. Who knows what other moles they had. They did not open their archives in the 90’s like the KGB did.


7 posted on 11/03/2013 9:10:03 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: Olog-hai

Today, intelligence agencies have far better technology, but I don’t know if their analysis and tradecraft are better.


8 posted on 11/03/2013 9:14:23 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: Olog-hai

Double-edged sword...

What can and should be used as an intelligence-gathering tool can be turned against the American populous with the mere flick of a switch (or keyboard password).


9 posted on 11/03/2013 9:22:48 PM PST by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: nickcarraway

Might a story like that have been the inspiration for Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy?


10 posted on 11/03/2013 9:24:07 PM PST by Antihero101607
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To: nickcarraway

” They did not open their archives in the 90’s like the KGB did.”

What the KGB did open was interesting enough....


11 posted on 11/03/2013 9:27:33 PM PST by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: nickcarraway; fieldmarshaldj; Perdogg; GOPsterinMA
Don’t people know: the KGB was the USSR’s far less competent intelligence agency. The GRU was quietly much more effective. Maybe that’s why they are still not well known.

Makes sense. Publicity and fame seem like the last thing a successful intelligence agency would incur.

12 posted on 11/03/2013 10:51:18 PM PST by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: Olog-hai

When the Nazi German regime occupied France, they found that the French were spying on their citizens much more than the Gestapo would ever dream of doing and brought their activities into line with the French, not the other way around.


13 posted on 11/04/2013 1:10:07 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Ted Cruz/Sarah Palin 2016)
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To: Impy; nickcarraway; fieldmarshaldj; Perdogg; GOPsterinMA

Bullcrap. SVR aka Foreign Intelligence Service aka KGB’s First Directorate was the most powerful spy structure ever.
At one point they had covert agents in every country around the world (or in every neighborhood in case of United States and other major NATO countries) performing various HUMINT missions on a daily basis or ready to take arms and kill key public figures or sabotage infrastructure in your area in case or a real trouble between US and USSR.
If you are old enough and lived through 1970-1980 you knew at least a couple of Russian SVR agents acting as your fellow neighbors.
Each of them maintained a network of US citizens including military and public officials working for SVR being either fooled or simply paid, blackmailed, threatened or something.
These very people were behind subversion of American values and pushed for liberal indoctrination since 1960s.

GRU is an absolutely different service within military, limited in both means and mission.


14 posted on 11/04/2013 4:13:08 AM PST by cunning_fish
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To: cunning_fish

I’ll bet more than a few of those agents were (or are) active Republicans. They could do a lot more damage in the GOP than with the Democrats.


15 posted on 11/04/2013 4:46:40 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: nickcarraway; All

Today’s young spy analysts are still products of their education and societal conditioning...mainly they see the world as a perfectable utopian society with no judgments to be made on what is good or evil. They tend to be live or let live with no real firm grasp or historical perspective as to what means to be a real patriot while working at the highly sensitive posts that they do.

They will not acknowledge that humans hide incredible evil in their hearts but they are taught to despise those organizations and people, mainly Christians, who attempt to get people to acknowledge their own evil sin and to seek salvation. Since they have no insight into their own potentials for deep evil or deep good, they cannot develop that “cagey edginess” needed to properly assess data on the motivations and probable behaviours on the very nasty people they ‘study”. Spy agency profiling gudelines are also politically vetted further weakening these analysts’ abilities to track our enemies.

Their inability to understand their own pre-biased world views so that they can put those aside when objectively viewing data is what makes them less effective. “Normalcy Biases” cripple their analyses. Some, out of fear that the “messenger will be shot” or political concerns, may “massage” the data so that it all looks like news the higher ups would want to hear.

Snowden is this type of millennial prig who, when disillusioned that his utopian dreams were not being fostered, smugly took it upon himself to expose his country’s secrets. Perhaps, he justifies it as a way of trying to embarrass his leftist heroes to live up to their utopian promises to be more ethical and transparent than what those evil “wascally” conservatives ever were.

We shouldn’t be surprised when more of these narcissistic Prometheus types start coming out of the wood work. The progressives created these “idealistic lightbringers”...let the progressives be the vultures that chew on their livers!


16 posted on 11/04/2013 4:49:14 AM PST by mdmathis6
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To: fieldmarshaldj

Sure, if you were listening to defectors they said their primary goal was to recruit “conservatives”.


17 posted on 11/04/2013 5:09:14 AM PST by cunning_fish
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To: fieldmarshaldj; cunning_fish; nickcarraway; GOPsterinMA

Well I watched the show “The Americans” on FX about this very topic, 2 KGB agents living as Americans. There was a character, ostensibly a Bernie Goldberg type former liberal turned conservative Reagan lover, he was a KGB asset. It’s just a TV show but it seemed pretty true to life.

I wonder if any of the original neocon leaders were Russian assets.


18 posted on 11/04/2013 5:43:16 AM PST by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: Olog-hai

Please let’s not leave off the PRC secret service.

That is the one which is big and growing, and America still doesn’t pay attention.


19 posted on 11/04/2013 5:48:07 AM PST by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Impy; fieldmarshaldj; cunning_fish; nickcarraway

“I wonder if any of the original neocon leaders were Russian assets.”

Kevin Costner is. Oh wait, that was from the movie “No Way Out”. Sorry.


20 posted on 11/04/2013 7:10:03 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (You're a very weird person, Yossarian.)
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To: GOPsterinMA; COUNTrecount; Nowhere Man; FightThePower!; C. Edmund Wright; jacob allen; ...

Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping!

To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you must threaten to report me to the Mods if I don't add you to the list...

21 posted on 11/04/2013 7:36:06 AM PST by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: null and void

AWESOME!!! Great graphic!!!


22 posted on 11/04/2013 7:38:43 AM PST by GOPsterinMA (You're a very weird person, Yossarian.)
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To: null and void

O’s brown shirts are marching lock step

None dare call it treason


23 posted on 11/04/2013 10:04:51 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Impy

Yes, sure. But back to a topic NSA is not equal to both Stasi and KGB. And KGB is not > GRU, they are different organizations. First is a civilian and second is a military agencies. For example first is used to blackmail a politician in Washington, DC, second to kill a rebel leader in the middle of the jungle. If you are to look for an analogies in mass culture imagine James Bond and John Rembo. If they were working for a Russian government then first is a SVR dept of KGB and the latter is a GRU agent.

GRU operations is not near the scale of SVR operations.

GRU might be famous for an overnight Czech or Afghanistan (Storm-333 op) takeover but SVR has brought you militant feminism, war on poverty, great society, affirmative action, abortion, gay marriage etc. Incompetent millenials are a product of SVR subversion of the family and public education too.


24 posted on 11/04/2013 12:25:02 PM PST by cunning_fish
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; Olog-hai

That likely had historical roots going back to Napoleon and Joseph Fouché, the head of the secret police.


25 posted on 11/04/2013 8:35:13 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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