IOW....if you support Obama......
Posted on 11/28/2013 8:48:49 AM PST by kristinn
Your guide to dealing with relatives with awful views this long weekend. A special "Obamacare train wreck" edition
Once again, Americans everywhere are spending a wonderful day with their families, being thankful for things, and also probably getting trapped wherever they are for days because of storms and mass nationwide flight delays and cancellations. But while family is a wonderful thing, sometimes people in your family hold very different beliefs than you do about important things like race relations and Islam. Once again, I am here with your guide to arguing intelligently, or at least coherently, with your right-wing relations. (Here are my guides from 2012 and 2011.)
As always, I can’t stress this enough: The first rule of arguing with your family members on holidays is don’t argue with your family members on holidays, because let’s all just try to enjoy one another’s company for once, without screaming and name-calling and so on. Many of your older relatives are lied to and scared by evil people on the radio and television, and that is not their fault. It’s usually best to change the subject, or go outside for some fresh air/cigarettes. But if you must, here are some reasonable things to say.
I have a feeling most of the discussions around the table this year will focus on healthcare, so that is what most of this year’s guide is about.
Obamacare is a disaster
I mean, not really, so far. It is still too early to tell, and most Americans believe that the law hasn’t affected them at all. Many of those Americans could be incorrect, as the law has changed how insurance companies treat all of us, regardless of whether we purchase individual insurance or receive it through an employer, but right now “Obamacare” doesn’t mean much to most people. (If you want to run through the benefits, there’s the insurance for young adults through their parents thing, and the preexisting conditions thing, lots of preventative care things are now “free,” and some prescription drugs are cheaper for people on Medicare.)
But yes, the law has its flaws, in its construction and its execution, but so far those flaws aren’t really hurting very many people.
The broken website proves that Obamacare won’t work
The broken website proves that federal IT contracting is a huge, broken mess, but anyone who has ever read anything about federal IT contracting before this already knew that. (So, like, 10 people knew that.) The broken website makes a fine metaphor, but if it’s up and running soon, it won’t have affected all that many people, or doomed the law. And if it’s not fixed soon, well, then there will be some trouble, possibly major trouble, with the individual insurance marketplace and the mandate, but the goal was always to get some uninsured people insured right away, and all the rest of them insured over the course of a few years, so small initial enrollment numbers probably won’t be the disaster everyone is claiming it will be. Basically, wait for the new year before saying HealthCare.gov killed Obamacare.
Canceled insurance policies prove that Obamacare has already failed
So, yes, Obama lied when he said “you can keep your plan,” or at least he omitted all these caveats that he probably assumed were implied in his statement, but the actual villain here, as always, is insurance companies. (No one likes insurance companies, right? Here you can feel free to agree that a healthcare reform bill that relies so heavily on private insurance companies is inherently flawed, it’s too bad we can’t just have Medicare for everyone!) The insurance companies first sold most of these people crappy plans that covered nothing and would’ve left them open to massive bills had they faced any serious medical problem. The insurance companies then decided that, instead of changing their plans to meet the higher standards of coverage required under the ACA, they would cancel all of them. The companies then sent everyone letters saying that their plans had been canceled, and in those letters they attempted to sell more expensive plans to people, without pointing out that many of those people are now eligible for subsidies or able to choose more affordable (and better) plans through other insurers. These “cancellation letters” are primarily sneaky, misleading sales pitches. Multiple state insurance regulators have criticized and fined insurance companies for sending them.
It’s true that millions of people who had currently been in the individual insurance market now face disruption and change, and everyone hates change, but the vast majority of those people were getting ripped off, and lots and lots of them now qualify for better coverage at an affordable rate. Those stories are less “news-worthy” than stories of people facing “rate shock,” though, and so they are less often mentioned on the news.
It’s sort of moot, though, because now insurance companies will be allowed to continue selling those deeply crappy plans to people, though they will have to send everyone a letter explaining how crappy they are.
Obamacare is a violation of religious liberty because Hobby Lobby has to pay for contraception
OK, well, first things first: Are corporations people? Can private, for-profit corporations be said to have a religious faith? A corporation’s founders, its owners, its board of directors or its shareholders all are welcome to practice any religion they choose without government interference, but how does a corporation worship? The entire point of corporations is that they’re separate legal entities from the individuals who make up the corporations — otherwise, limited liability wouldn’t be a thing — and while corporate “free speech” is at least defensible in the sense that corporations can “speak,” there’s no precedent for saying for-profit corporations practice religion.
SNIP
The libs can shovel this drivel, while I shovel the mashed potatoes.
Happy Thanksgiving, kristinn.
Time for more White House freeps soon, methinks.
Is this from the Onion?
I give this a 10 on the honking hoot scale!
I told my two liberal relatives that if they start with this Obamacare is the best thing crap.....Stay home! I’d don’t want to spoil the Thanksgiving feast with a fight... Of course they’re coming... Have you ever known a liberal turn down anything free?
How explain the Left’s love affair with Islam?
IMO they share a common enemy: Christ Jesus.
lol
One of the talking points actually says “ YES,OBAMA LIED BUT...”
“How to harangue the few remaining people in your life who cherish Liberty.”
They sure do.
Battle of Vienna 1673—340 years ago.
Looks like they are spoiling for another lesson.
Hey, Abdul, here—have a croissant.
“Yes, and if some so-called “progressive” member of the family brings up Obama’s Thanksgiving table talking points, then they should...”
be told to leave and escorted to the door.”
I would add that they should have their teeth knocked out and then be thrown out the door! I have had enough of these people and their BS! Today I have a zero tolerance policy. If they open their mouths, I will shut them and they will be eating through a straw for 3 months! Basta!! Enough!!
It is setting up straw man arguments. Not getting to the real meat of the arguments. Typical liberal thinking.
It will be interesting to see whether there is an uptick in domestic violence today over previous years.
Forty years ago, if you said that with Nixon's name, liberal heads around the table would explode.
Liberalism is a mental disease. Cure the disease in 2014.
IOW....if you support Obama......
only a liberal would start an argument about politics at a family thanksgiving dinner...no class..
I love that one too!
And “everyone hates insurance companies, right?”
Well if they hate insurance companies just wait until they see Government Health Care.
Ask them how that preventive care is “free”. If I slug Tom and take his cash and give it to Jerry, did Jerry really receive “free” money? Didn’t Tom have to earn that money? When the government takes money from a taxpayer to pay a physician to treat someone else, is that person receiving “free” healthcare? Didn’t the taxpayer have to earn that money? And when they tell a physician that she can only charge $250 for a $500 procedure, didn’t the government just steal $250 from the physician? The procedure still “cost” $500, but the Democrats just stole $250 to buy a vote. There is no such thing as free healthcare or “reduced pricing” healthcare. Healthcare costs what it costs. It’s just a matter of whether the money goes to the healthcare providers or the Democrat party.
I am the one who is going to bring up Obamacare today and I’m going to harp on it and proclaim it as DISASTER.
They can kick me out if they want.
Geez folks lets go on offensive. This is a perfect opportunity to wake our liberal family members up!
My family raised us with manners. We never discuss politics or religion at ‘mixed’ family gatherings. Sometimes I discuss politics with them away from the table, but we just respectfully disagree. I can’t believe the people wanting a frikkin’ confrontation at a time of reflection and giving thanks and gratitude for our bountiful blessings.
I feel the same way. I don’t talk to libs, family or not. I’m happier that way.
only a liberal would start an argument about politics at a family thanksgiving dinner...no class..
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Exactly.
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