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ObamaCare's Plans Are Worse. Raises prices and limits medical choices.
Wall Street Journal ^ | Nov 29, 2013 | WSJ Editorial

Posted on 11/30/2013 7:49:48 AM PST by Innovative

The reason this furor will continue even if the website is fixed is that the public is learning that ObamaCare's insurance costs more in return for worse coverage.

ObamaCare imposes to create a supposedly superior insurance product are resulting in an objectively inferior medical product.

But government usually helps the less fortunate honestly by raising taxes to fund programs. In summer 2009, Senate Democrats put out such a bill, and the $1.6 trillion sticker shock led them to hide the transfers by forcing people to buy overpriced products.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 0carenightmare; healthcare; obama; obamacare; obamacaredeductibles; obamacarepremiums; obamacarerationing; socializedmedicine; taxes
I would recommend this as a "must read & bookmark" -- it has lots of specifics.
1 posted on 11/30/2013 7:49:48 AM PST by Innovative
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To: Innovative

He promised we could keep what we had AND lower rates. The whole damn thing is a scam.


2 posted on 11/30/2013 7:51:37 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Innovative

Accidentally cut off part of the quote:

“In any case all four tiers are scrap-metal grade, because the rules ObamaCare imposes to create a supposedly superior insurance product are resulting in an objectively inferior medical product. “


3 posted on 11/30/2013 7:51:42 AM PST by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Innovative

The Lord of the Flies came into office to destroy America — and destroy he has.


4 posted on 11/30/2013 7:52:21 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Innovative

Our deductible has gone from $2500 to $12500 per year. I was suspicious when I found out our premiums will only go up by about $100 per month. Sure enough, they clobbered us on the deductible.

Hubby and I have already decided that we will alternate year our doctors visits. I visit for the yearly checkup and bloodwork one year, he will do the same the next year. We can no longer afford to both do yearly visits in the same year.

Progress and all that.


5 posted on 11/30/2013 7:53:41 AM PST by Black Agnes
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To: Innovative

I hope some of the low information voters will see for themselves how Obamacare screws them with higher prices, worse benefits and they cannot keep their doctor or even pick the hospital they want to use. How anyone could say this is a better system is beyond belief. I am surprised even the state controlled media is starting to realize they were shills for Obamcare talking points and this plan is hurting millions of Americans.


6 posted on 11/30/2013 7:55:47 AM PST by The Great RJ
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To: Innovative

Coming to America..... by April 2014

Healthcare industry wage and price controls.

prices will be rolled back to July 2012 levels until April 2015


7 posted on 11/30/2013 7:56:44 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Travon... Felony assault and battery hate crime)
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To: Innovative

Now I’m gettin’ confused. If the obiecare plans suck, how can your current/former plan be worse? I thought if your current/former plan didn’t meet the obiecare requirements that it was no longer any good to you. Are the obiecare plan requirements lower than your current/former plan? We’re just waiting for that shoe to drop for my better half’s portion of my retirement health care. It’s secondary for me because of mediscare but if we want to keep her on it I have to maintain my status to do so. It’s going up to 1,100+/mth in January. WOO HOO! A little less ammo I guess.


8 posted on 11/30/2013 7:57:06 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: Innovative

“In any case all four tiers are scrap-metal grade, because the rules ObamaCare imposes to create a supposedly superior insurance product are resulting in an objectively inferior medical product. “

Which typically happens anytime government gets involved with anything.


9 posted on 11/30/2013 7:59:36 AM PST by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: Sacajaweau

Quinn’s First Law.

“Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.”


10 posted on 11/30/2013 8:08:34 AM PST by Dutch Boy
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To: Dutch Boy

Liberal politicians and staffers should feel the same pain, not get subsidies or exemptions. low lifes.


11 posted on 11/30/2013 8:28:47 AM PST by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: bkaycee

This is purely about power and control.

The IRS involvement is proof.

“We must punish our enemies”

Why has no one been fired or punished for all the OBOZO scandals?


12 posted on 11/30/2013 8:31:01 AM PST by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: Innovative

That the deductible for an unsubsidized “Silver” plan can be up to $6,000 and the same policy for someone <250% of the federal poverty level can be as little as $0 haw can that not be called wealth redistribution?


13 posted on 11/30/2013 8:37:15 AM PST by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: Black Agnes

My daughter has a friend who works at an insurance company. She told her that she gets phone calls all day with people screaming and cursing because of Obamacare. Super angry.


14 posted on 11/30/2013 8:38:50 AM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: PA-RIVER

Just tell them, this is the Hope and Change YOU voted for.


15 posted on 11/30/2013 8:40:38 AM PST by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: Innovative





- B A R A C K - F R U I T D A Y -





all this for a damn fag






16 posted on 11/30/2013 8:54:17 AM PST by devolve (- "He's (Obama) just 'too talented' to do what 'ordinary people' do." - Iranian-born Valerie Jarrett)
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To: Innovative

I feel sorry for Fred. I want to help him. I feel that my money should be for me. So, where can I get money for poor Fred? I look around, and I see Barney who seems to be doing well. So, I threaten Barney and make him give me some of his money. I then give this money to Fred. Now, to Fred, this is “free” money. But is it “free” money to Barney? Didn’t he have to work to earn this money? Wasn’t there a “cost” to him when I threatened him and took his money? And what was the benefit to Barney when I took his money? Fred votes for me? What could Barney have done with that money that I took from him? Maybe he was going to buy a vacation home in Aspen. He would have had to hire an architect to design the house. Maybe Fred is an out of work architect because fewer people have money to build a vacation home. Would it have been better for Fred to earn money designing a home from Barney or just have someone like me take the money from Barney and give it to him? The real winner in this exchange isn’t Fred, it’s me. I get to keep some of Barney’s money and then I hire my sister to keep track of how much money I hand out. I control Barney’s money even though he is the one who worked to earn that money. I have become a Democrat.


17 posted on 11/30/2013 8:58:53 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Innovative

I read this title and think, did no one pay attention when conservatives, myself among them, were telling everyone this is what Democratcare would be(?). It didn’t require genius to see what Obama’s Democratcare would do to insurance policies and prices.


18 posted on 11/30/2013 9:11:41 AM PST by pallis
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To: Innovative

FReepers knew this from the beginning


19 posted on 11/30/2013 9:15:03 AM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: blueunicorn6

Just found this purportedly unbiases website (it doesn’t really sound like it) — but it does list the Obamacare taxes. Read it and weep.

As you point out this is nothing but income redistribution.

http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-taxes.php

The following list of new ObamaCare taxes collectively raise over $800 billion by 2022. Here is a complete list of new fees and taxes contained within ObamaCare:

ObamaCare Taxes That Most Likely Won’t Directly Affect the Average American

• 2.3% Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers 2014

• 10% Tax on Indoor Tanning Services 2014

• Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike

• Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals which fail to comply with the requirements of ObamaCare

• Tax on Brand Name Drugs

• Tax on Health Insurers

• $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives

• Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D

• Employer Mandate on business with over 50 full-time equivalent employees to provide health insurance to full-time employees. $2000 per employee $3000 if employee uses tax credits to buy insurance on the exchange (marketplace). (pushed back to 2015)

• Medicare Tax on Investment Income 3.8% over $200k/$250k

• Medicare Part A Tax increase of .9% over $200k/$250k

• Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (not a tax)

• Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting (repealed)

• Codification of the “economic substance doctrine” (not a tax)

ObamaCare Taxes That (may) Directly Affect the Average American

• 40% Excise Tax “Cadillac” on high-end Premium Health Insurance Plans 2018

• An annual $63 fee levied by ObamaCare on all plans (decreased each year until 2017 when pre-existing conditions are eliminated) to help pay for insurance companies covering the costs of high-risk pools.

• Medicine Cabinet Tax
Over the counter medicines no longer qualified as medical expenses for flexible spending accounts (FSAs), health reimbursement arrangements (HRAs), health savings accounts (HSAs), and Archer Medical Saving accounts (MSAs).

• Additional Tax on HSA/MSA Distributions
Health savings account or an Archer medical savings account, penalties for spending money on non-qualified medical expenses. 10% to 20% in the case of a HSA and from 15% to 20% in the case of a MSA.

• Flexible Spending Account Cap 2013
Contributions to FSAs are reduced to $2,500 from $5,000.

• Medical Deduction Threshold tax increase 2013
Threshold to deduct medical expenses as an itemized deduction increases to 10% from 7.5%.

• Individual Mandate (the tax for not purchasing insurance if you can afford it) 2014
Starting in 2014, anyone not buying “qualifying” health insurance must pay an income tax surtax at a rate of 1% or $95 in 2014 to 2.5% in 2016 on profitable income above the tax threshold. The total penalty amount cannot exceed the national average of the annual premiums of a “bronze level” health insurance plan on ObamaCare exchanges.

• Premium Tax Credits for Small Businesses 2014 (not a tax)

• Advanced Premium Tax Credits for Individuals and Families 2014 (not a tax)

• Medical Loss Ratio (MRL): Premium rebates (not a tax)

The link below provides a full list of ObamaCare Taxes by the IRS.

For a full list of taxes provisions from the IRS

Or see the latest publication by the joint tax committee on the Affordable Care Act.

Who Does ObamaCare Tax?

Let’s take a look at how ObamaCare’s taxes affect certain income groups.

ObamaCare Taxes for High Earners and Large Businesses

Most of the new taxes are on high-earners (individuals making over $200,000 and families making over $250,000), large businesses (over 50 full-time equivalent employees making over $250,000), and industries that profit from healthcare. Essentially those who will see gains under ObamaCare are required to put money back in the program via taxes.

FACT: Tax increases generally affect single filers with an adjusted gross income (AGI) above $200,000 and married couples filing jointly above $250,000. Some of the tax increases don’t kick in until single AGI hits $400,000 and married filing jointly AGI hits $450,000.

ObamaCare Taxes for the Average American With Health insurance

For most of the 85% of Americans with health insurance, making less than $250,000, most of the new taxes won’t mean much of anything although certain taxes below will affect specific individuals and families.

ObamaCare Taxes for the Average American Without Health insurance

The 15% of Americans without health insurance will be required to obtain health insurance (Individual Mandate) or will face a “tax penalty”.

The good news is that many uninsured will be exempt from the Individual mandate due to income, offered cost assistance through the marketplace including Tax Credits (also available to small businesses), qualify for Medicaid, or will get insurance through work (the Employer Mandate requires large employers to insure full-time employees by 2015). Adults who are under 26 will be able to stay on their parents plan as well, this will help to limit the number of young people who will pay the fee. Both the employer and individual mandates are part of our “shared responsibility” to expand the quality and affordability of health insurance in the United States as a trade for our new benefits, rights and protections.

ObamaCare Taxes for Small Businesses

Small businesses with less than 25 full-time equivalent employees will have access to tax credits to reduce premium costs of group plans.

ObamaCare Taxes for Specific Groups With Health Insurance

Here are a few changes that my affect specific groups of Americans with health insurance:

• Other tax provisions such as changes medical deduction thresholds, HSAs, MSAs, and FSAs may impact some Americans by limiting tax deductions.

• The Medical Loss Ratio (MLR or 80/20 rule) will mean that some Americans may get rebates if health insurance companies spend on non-healthcare related expenses.

• Tax provisions like the 10% tanning bed tax, taxes on drug companies, taxes on medical devices and taxes on health insurance companies selling insurance on and off the exchange may affect the amount of money we pay for some health care related goods and services, but will not have a significant impact on our daily lives.

• The employer mandate has caused some companies to cut down full-time workers to part-time to avoid providing benefits, however major employers like Disney and Walmart have actually increased their full-time workforce in response to the looming 2015 deadline.

• Overall the benefits tend to outweigh the costs for the average American as even those who pay a little more, get a lot more in return due to the increased quality of their health insurance.

Will I pay More Taxes and High Premiums Because of ObamaCare?

As mentioned above premium rates and the taxes you will have to pay are primarily based on income. Aside from income premium prices are based on which plan you choose, family size, age, smoking status and geography. Subsidies reduce the overall rate of your premiums (however smoking is calculated after subsidies). Come 2018 there will be a 40% excise tax on high end health insurance plans.

Aside from the tax provisions that require Americans to obtain insurance and subsidize it’s costs, ObamaCare also includes a few tax related provisions that work as consumer protections including requirements for better reporting and the Medical Loss Ratio.


20 posted on 11/30/2013 9:16:33 AM PST by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: rktman

they are only ‘better’ in one way - they cover more things and pre-xisting things. and then it’s things you either didn’t want or can’t use. for almost all folks who have insurance they had no pre-existing things not covered.

inother ways of’defining ‘ better’ - like deductibles, cost, things more people care abut, they fail.


21 posted on 11/30/2013 9:16:47 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Yup. Me, Mr. vasectomy and Mrs. hysterectomy really need maternity coverage. Where’s the damn menu to pick and choose? LOL! Gotta be on page 2,113. Or maybe it’s in the rules and regs page 9,237.


22 posted on 11/30/2013 9:20:11 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: Innovative

The defenders of Obamacare still cling to the idea that higher premiums equal cheaper insurance, and higher deductibles and paying for unwanted coverage is superior coverage. Next year, when those who have special needs like chemotherapy and dialysis begin to die, this will be cheered as the fulfillment of Obama’s promise of universal healthcare. Thought and reason have been abandoned-long live Big Brother.


23 posted on 11/30/2013 9:34:31 AM PST by Spok ("What're you going to believe-me or your own eyes?" -Marx (Groucho))
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To: bkaycee

“Why has no one been fired or punished for all the OBOZO scandals?”

Somewhere, there is a Star Chamber forming up to take care of this problem.


24 posted on 11/30/2013 9:42:23 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz ("Senator Cruz basically made the Democrats fight for a whole bunch of things that they already had.")
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To: Innovative
ObamaCare's Plans Are Worse. Raises prices and limits medical choices.

Gee... Who could have seen this coming?

/s

25 posted on 11/30/2013 10:34:36 AM PST by Iron Munro (Orwell: There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.)
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To: Innovative

I smell an IRS audit on the way.


26 posted on 11/30/2013 10:49:46 AM PST by unseelie
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To: headstamp 2

Sex change operations and condoms are covered. Its all about priorities.


27 posted on 11/30/2013 10:52:04 AM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: bkaycee

Yes, my daughter voted twice for Obama.

I didn’t gloat. I just said “yes, lots of cancer patients and Kids are in big trouble. Obama will never stop it”


28 posted on 11/30/2013 10:58:29 AM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: rktman

If the two of you get divorced, you could make out great. Have the wife rent a room in your house as section 8. Get her on welfare, food stamps, medicare.

That’s how they do it in NYC. Second hand, I know people doing thus. They make 50 grand a year, but live like 100 grand. Its now routine in big cities. The mother gets the apartment, food, heat electric, the boyfriend pays for the luxuries, vacations cocaine, mercedes...


29 posted on 11/30/2013 11:08:47 AM PST by PA-RIVER
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To: PA-RIVER

Sadly, we don’t have the kind of mental deficiency that would allow us to do that. It’s easy enough to do based on things I see going on. I knew a “person of color” in the early 70’s that already had the whole thing figured out. He didn’t “live” with his wife and 5 kids, he worked a $3.25/hr job and, oddly, he always had a wad of hundred dollar bills. Hmmm. How does that work? LOL! Ah yes. The great society.


30 posted on 11/30/2013 11:13:41 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: Innovative
The following list of new ObamaCare taxes collectively raise over $800 billion by 2022. Here is a complete list of new fees and taxes contained within ObamaCare:

Thanks for spelling it out.

31 posted on 12/01/2013 10:29:35 AM PST by AmericaUnite
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To: Innovative

Does it have this specific analogy of ObamaFlowers? Pass it on and make it go viral —

Obama Flowers - Have you ordered yours yet?

(Receptionist) Hello, Welcome to ObamaFlowers, My name is Trina. How can I help you?

(Customer) Hello, I received an email from Professional Flowers stating that my flower order has been canceled and I should go to your exchange to reorder it. I tried your website, but it seems like it is not working. So I am calling the 800 number.

(Receptionist) Yes, I am sorry about the website. It should be fixed by the end of November – or maybe December. But I can help you.

(Customer) Thanks, I ordered a “Spring Bouquet” for our anniversary, and wanted it delivered to my wife.

(Receptionist Interrupting) Sir, “Spring Bouquets” do not meet our minimum standards, I will be happy to provide you with Red Roses.

(Customer) But I have always ordered “Spring Bouquets”, done it for years, my wife likes them.

(Receptionist) Roses are better, sir. I am sure your wife will love them.

(Customer) Well, how much are they?

(Receptionist) It depends sir, do you want our Bronze, Silver, Gold or Platinum package.

(Customer) What’s the difference?

(Receptionist) 6, 12,18 or 24 Red Roses.

(Customer) The Silver package may be okay, how much is it?

(Receptionist) It depends sir, what is you monthly income?

(Customer) What does that have to do with anything?

(Receptionist) I need that to determine your government flower subsidy, then I can determine how much your out of pocket cost will be. But if your income is below our minimums for a subsidy, then I can refer you to our FlowerAid department.

(Customer) FlowerAid?

(Receptionist) Yes, Flowers are a Right, everyone has a right to flowers. So, if you can’t afford them, then the government will supply them free of charge.

(Customer) Who said they were a Right?

(Receptionist) Congress passed it, the President signed it and the Supreme Court found it Constitutional.

(Customer) Whoa.....I don’t remember seeing anything in the Constitution regarding Flowers as a Right.

(Receptionist) It is not really a Right in the Constitution, but ObamaFlowers is Constitutional because the Supreme Court Ruled it a “Tax”. Taxes are Constitutional. But we feel it is a Right.

(Customer) I don’t believe this...

(Receptionist) It’s the law of the land sir. Now, we anticipated most people would go for the Silver Package, so what is you monthly income sir?

(Customer) Forget it, I think I will forgo the flowers this year.

(Receptionist) In that case sir, I will still need your monthly income.

(Customer) Why?

(Receptionist) To determine what your ‘non-participation’ cost would be.

(Customer) WHAT? Your can’t charge me for NOT buying flowers!

(Receptionist) It’s the law of the land, sir, approved by the Supreme Court. It’s $9.50 or 1% of your monthly income.....

(Customer)interrupting) This is ridiculous, I’ll pay the $9.50..

(Receptionist) Sir, it is the $9.50 or 1% of your monthly income, whichever is greater.

(Customer) ARE YOU KIDDING ME? What a ripoff!!

(Receptionist) Actually sir, it is a good deal. Next year it will be 2%.

(Customer) Look, I’m going to call my Congressman to find out what’s going on here. This is ridiculous. I’m not going to pay it.

(Receptionist) Sorry to hear that sir, that’s why I had the NSA track this call and obtain the make and model of the cell phone your are using.

(Customer) Why does the NSA need to know what kind of CELL PHONE I AM USING?

(Receptionist) So they get your GPS coordinates sir

(Door Bell rings followed immediately by a loud knock on the door)

(Receptionist) That would be the IRS sir. Thanks for calling ObamaFlowers, have a nice day...and God Bless America.


32 posted on 12/01/2013 12:37:25 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: blueunicorn6

“Redistribution” is 19th-Century-Slavery turned on its head.


33 posted on 12/01/2013 11:05:09 PM PST by Does so ("Miranda Warnings" and loss of "Common Marriage" = 2 Big Mistakes...)
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To: Innovative

Yeah, fixing the website just means Americans learn they’ve been screwed all the sooner!


34 posted on 12/01/2013 11:13:18 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: Salvation

Brilliant!


35 posted on 12/01/2013 11:23:07 PM PST by cynwoody
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To: cynwoody

Got it in an email....pass it on to make it go viral.


36 posted on 12/02/2013 8:43:39 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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