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Nelson Mandela, Sinner or Saint?
Townhall ^ | 12/09/2013 | Michael Brown

Posted on 12/09/2013 9:19:00 AM PST by SeekAndFind

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To: SeekAndFind

We cannot judge. Perhaps he confessed and had a deathbed conversion experience.


21 posted on 12/09/2013 9:54:29 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: SeekAndFind

He supposedly prevented mass murder of white people when he and the ANC took over. That might have been true for a while, but he failed to institutionalize it so now white farmers are being murdered, just like Zimbabwe.


22 posted on 12/09/2013 9:56:44 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
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To: SeekAndFind
RE :”Do you concur?”

LOL

23 posted on 12/09/2013 9:58:27 AM PST by sickoflibs (Obama : 'If you like your Doctor you can keep him, PERIOD! Don't believe the GOPs warnings')
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To: SeekAndFind

Depends on a persons point of view. If one is a truth believer he is not very good, if truth matters little he is very good.


24 posted on 12/09/2013 10:04:55 AM PST by mulligan
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To: SeekAndFind

Everyone is celebrating Mr. Mandela because he insisted on racial majority rule, even when the racial minority attempted to separate themselves physically into their own country, where they would be the majority.

But he insisted that his race had the right to claim that territory, populate it with people who looked like themselves, and then rule the racial minority by force.

The entire civil rights movement of the last 150 years in the United States has insisted just the opposite: that a racial minority has the right to have not just equal rights, but more rights to promote their status (affirmative action), and political power disproportionate to their numbers.

So Mr. Mandela was a stone Racist. His only interest was Black African hegemony not just where they were, but wherever they might go.

Even today they insist that no border or nation prevent their emigration into that country.

But of course they insist that “their” borders, and the entire continent of Africa, remain racially monotone, and politically tribal.

Africans Uber Alles, you might say. Black Supremacists.

That’s what Mandela was, and what the “new” South Africa is.


25 posted on 12/09/2013 10:05:22 AM PST by Regulator
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To: SeekAndFind

When one considers the crime and corruption rampant in South Africa since he and his ANC party came to power there,

I would have to honestly say that Nelson Mandela “took South Africa in the direction of Detroit”.

No doubt he was a Marxist-Leninist (Communist), just a peaceful one which many see as redeeming.

When he was released from prison everything was going his way, so it was easy at that point to back off from any violence that he and his associates like his ex-wife Winnie were involved in.

He’s in God’s hands now not ours. I’ll just have to let my feelings go and move on.

His service tomorrow will reveal who his friends were and those who loved him the most. Lets get some quotes from them for illumination.


26 posted on 12/09/2013 10:31:47 AM PST by Nextrush (A BALANCED BUDGET NOW AND PRESIDENT SARAH PALIN)
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To: Cyber Liberty
He supposedly prevented mass murder of white people when he and the ANC took over. That might have been true for a while, but he failed to institutionalize it so now white farmers are being murdered, just like Zimbabwe.

It's a matter of tactics and strategy. Immediate mass murder would have been a fun tactic (per Alinsky, use tactics your people enjoy) but a failed strategy as it would invite foreigners to intervene.

So, Mandela put on a winning face, and went for the slow route. Put blacks in all positions of power, and then ignore any atrocities that might happen to whites. Sort of like how Eric Holder ignores any crime sprees against whites in this country.

Having the lowest and meanest of your followers do your dirty work leaves clean hands for Mandela, and for Holder/Obama.

27 posted on 12/09/2013 11:00:38 AM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: Nextrush

RE: No doubt he was a Marxist-Leninist (Communist), just a peaceful one which many see as redeeming.

When he was released from prison everything was going his way, so it was easy at that point to back off from any violence that he and his associates like his ex-wife Winnie were involved in.

______________________________

Lost in all these is the role Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher and Pope John Paul II played in DEFEATING communism in the early 1990’s.

Before Mandela was released, the Berlin Wall fell, the Soviet Union collapsed, and most of the Eastern bloc countries of Europe repudiated communism. Even China moved towards capitalism. Mandela at least slowly realized that Communism wasn’t in South Africa’s future ( plus, his Soviet benefactors were no more ).

At least Mandela has the good sense not to impose communism on South Africa.

Many liberals castigated Reagan and Thatcher for not focusing on apartheid in South Africa when they were in power. Many do not realize that they had a BIGGER PICTURE in mind... they did not want a South Africa ran by someone who would be controlled by the communists in the Soviet Union.

The fall of communism paved the way for Mandela’s release, the end of apartheid, and a South Africa that (thank God) DID NOT TURN MARXIST.


28 posted on 12/09/2013 11:11:34 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

The Soviet Union was no longer in a position to help him promote Communism in SA by the time he got out of prison.

Good point.


29 posted on 12/09/2013 11:17:13 AM PST by Nextrush (A BALANCED BUDGET NOW AND PRESIDENT SARAH PALIN)
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To: GeronL

Apt summary of the piece.


30 posted on 12/09/2013 11:33:48 AM PST by pluvmantelo (Obamism=Chavism)
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To: SeekAndFind

That barry liked him is all I need to know. “Yup. I hate him.”


31 posted on 12/09/2013 11:34:16 AM PST by onedoug
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To: slowhandluke

That’s a good description of all this Mandela business. Whites who were in the know cleared out of SA as fast as they could, leaving behind the people who believed Mandela’s lies about being safe.

I know people in the “cleared out” category, and they are sad for the homeland and friends murdered in the pogrom.


32 posted on 12/09/2013 11:39:25 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
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To: SeekAndFind

Sinner. Like all of us.


33 posted on 12/09/2013 11:42:14 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: SeekAndFind
The author seems to be saying that although Mandela and the ANC were indeed Communist and terrorist, we should overlook these in favor of the good that he did. I wonder, was he as solicitous to the memory of Yasser Arafat, who was also a Communist and terrorist who "did some good" during the Camp David negotiations?

I fail to see much difference between the two men, yet somehow, one is (rightly) remembered as a terrorist while the other has been elevated to sainthood, including by some on the so-called right.

34 posted on 12/09/2013 1:22:32 PM PST by ek_hornbeck
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To: SeekAndFind
Short Term history writers just about always get it wrong.
All I ever want is the truth. We will not get in on Mandela in our lifetime. It is racist to speak bad of him.
So now all I want is for the crowning to just go away. I want him to be yesterdays news.
That wish I will get.
I also want my tag line to come true, hell I will settle for half 13.5 years. . . . . . . THIS IS THE WISH I REALLY WANT. I will do 5 Hail Nelsons to get ZERO in the pokey. . . . .
35 posted on 12/09/2013 1:23:29 PM PST by DeaconRed (If ZERO wants to copy Mandela, his new buddy, A great start is 27 years in the pokey. Period.)
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To: SeekAndFind
a South Africa that (thank God) DID NOT TURN MARXIST.

South Africa is Marxist in everything but name. The ruling ANC's "Black Empowermen Program" is all about taking money and resources from prosperous and successful whites and handing them over to indigent blacks.

36 posted on 12/09/2013 1:25:40 PM PST by ek_hornbeck
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To: ek_hornbeck

I wonder if he had used terrorism to overthrow a communist government if he would have been as well thought of? I’ll answer my own question. NO.

Wouldn’t have been able to. He would have died in prison or been shot after he was convicted of the acts of terror which he admitted to.

But because he was a Commie, then that’s just fine.


37 posted on 12/09/2013 1:34:26 PM PST by saleman
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To: SeekAndFind

“Siiner or Saint” denotes a religious connotation to the dead Communist mandela.

Communism is it’s own religion, therefore, he was evil embraced through his lies.


38 posted on 12/09/2013 3:19:27 PM PST by Terry L Smith
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