GOP seeks military pension cuts in looming budget deal

All Voices ^ | 9 Dec 13 | itobin53

[SkyPilot]

In front of television cameras, Republicans wave the flag in support of US military personnel. But behind closed doors, they are taking aim at their pensions. The budget deadline of Dec. 13 is fast approaching with the threat of avoiding another government shutdown waning in the balance.

Budget chairs Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis) and Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash) may be close to a deal that could trim $20 billion from federal pensions.

Similar to the chained CPI cuts President Barack Obama [Unlink] included in his failed Grand Bargain in 2011, Ryan is proposing changes in the way military pensions are calculated so retirees will end up with less money.

[SkyPilot]

Looks like the GOP got its pound of flesh from military retirees. The above story was from Monday, 9 Dec. From today's headlines:

Budget deal would reduce COLAs for some military retirees

I am a military retiree, and I recognize we have a budget problem. I am willing to see cuts that must occur to solve our fiscal problems, however, those cuts should be shared.

Medicaid is now a time bomb because ObamaCare is adding millions of more Takers to the system. Social Security Disabilty is now a $150 Billion a year enterprise, and there is no arguing that many on this program are nothing but scammers.

They will get a full Cost of Living allowance.

These guys won't.

It is time to realize the GOP is no friend of the military. In fact, they have not been one for years.

[Logical me]

It is time to realize the GOP is no friend of the military. In fact, they have not been one for years.

You are full of ____. America is on the verge of total collapse and if you were really intelligent you would realize that we all are taking a cut. I am a Korean vet so spare the BS.

[Kenny]

It is time to realize the GOP is no friend of the military. In fact, they have not been one for years.

Nope, the country's been effectively divided so they don't need military votes. And of course there's the fact that America has let these tyrants stop military ballots over and over again so the military has no say in anything anymore.

[AlmaKing]

You made your bed, now sleep in it.

[Hojczyk]

Time to reform Military retirement system…Many in the military are never in harms way and should work like a federal employees…others with jobs that require more physical duties should have the system they have now..

[Shimmer1]

I’d like to remind you both that not all retirees are officers and it will make a WORLD of difference to most retirees to not get the retirement or not get all of it. Please remember, especially you, Logical Me, that while i thank you for your service, that these men gave their future for a career in the military, and deserve compensation.

I’m merely a dependent widow, and therefore get 1/4 of his A/D pay, It’s not much, but it’s a lot of what I get each month. Many of us depend on getting what was promised, this isn’t a “gimmee”

[redgolum]

The issue is the same with any defined benefit program.

You end up paying for three workforces, of which one is actually working. Used to be most died before they were receiving benefits for to long, now a 20 retired person can life for an extra 30 years.

The benefit system is why the US is starting use more and more mercenary “security forces”. They are MUCH cheaper in the long term than regular military personal. Trouble is by definition, most have no loyalty to the USA. The Fedgov has little choice but to use these mercs if they want to keep pursuing US interests.

We either start cutting benefits, cut services, or both. Status quo won't work.

Full disclosure. My wife is a state employee in the same boat. Teachers were “promised” a nice retirement package that is not able to be paid out now because of reality. Many are mad about it, but we have decided that we will not retire till late 60’s early 70’s. With the decline in health care coming, that means that we will likely work till we can't anymore, and die.

[GreyHoundSailor]

If we’re ‘on the verge of total collapse’, there sure are a lot of folks in DC doing their damnedest to give it that final push.

[Phillyred]

The lawyers shouldn’t fret. They won’t be calling for cuts for diversity training and rainbow celebrations.

[kabar]

Both parties are dedicated to crony capitalism, including the many contractors who profit from DOD. Eisenhower was correct about the danger the military-industrial complex poses to this Republic. I would go further and say that the corporate influence on our government is a real problem.

Federal, state, and local government expenditures amount to over 40% of the country's GDP. Government has a major impact on the winners and losers in the private sector. Such control is pernicious, especially since the political parties can extort campaign contributions using government funds.

As a veteran, I share your concern about our defense posture, but unless we do something about curtailing the welfare state, we will have more and more cuts to defense in order to fund entitlements and other government benefits. It is the age old battle of guns versus butter, and butter usually wins since it has more constituents. One just has to look at the UK and other European countries to see where we are headed in terms of defense spending. We just added another huge entitlement program, Obamacare, that will suck huge amounts of money out of the private sector and the federal budget.

[MSF BU]

It would be interesting to know when the last member of Ryan’s family or Murray’s family was to serve in uniform. I know Ryan himself had better things to do apparently.

[blueunicorn6]

I don’t think that cutting military pensions is at the top of the list for the Republicans. Every time somebody starts calling for cuts in any Democrat base supported item, the Democrats start yammering about cutting defense. They throw it out to frighten the conservatives. This is an even bigger issue because of the “haircut” they are looking to give the city retirees of Detroit. That really has the Democrats scared. Those Democrat city retirees in Detroit are about to get their reward for voting for Democrats all those years....a nice 80% cut in their pensions. How loud do you think they are screaming? They don’t have the guts to look in the mirror and say, “We brought this on ourselves.” So, they threaten military retirement to try and get a bone to throw to the city retirees from Detroit. I don’t vote Democrat because they’re a bunch of self-serving liars.

[SkyPilot]

if you were really intelligent you would realize that we all are taking a cut. I am a Korean vet so spare the BS.

I am not sure what you mean.

If you are a Korean vet and retired military, you are over age 62 and the COLA cuts do not affect you. Given your age, you are on Social Security and Medicare, which are by the way, two of the largest drivers of our debt and deficits (the other being Medicaid).

Due to political cowardice, nothing is being done to reform those time bomb programs.

[Mashood]

Paul Ryan is a disappointment.

[MSF BU]

Have fun delineating which is which. Who has the tougher position, the guy instructing at Ranger School working 14 hour days or the guy nice and warm in the submarine who will be underwater for the next two months? I have never found somebody who honestly compares the military to the civilian sector that really knew what the military sector went through.

[TADSLOS]

Spot on.

[dfwgator]

Political suicide.

[SkyPilot]

As a veteran, I share your concern about our defense posture, but unless we do something about curtailing the welfare state, we will have more and more cuts to defense in order to fund entitlements and other government benefits. It is the age old battle of guns versus butter, and butter usually wins since it has more constituents. One just has to look at the UK and other European countries to see where we are headed in terms of defense spending. We just added another huge entitlement program, Obamacare, that will suck huge amounts of money out of the private sector and the federal budget.

I agree with you 100%. You have been one of the few voices of reason here on FR regarding this subject.

The Sequester will still stand under this agreement, it simply is a rope thrown to the victim in the quick sand. The military is eager, at this point, for any port in the storm because it has been under attack from all sides, and both parties.

As I have posted before, even if we zeroed out all Defense spending, we are still screwed as a nation, because of Entitlements.

If this "deal" ends the worst of the Sequester for 2 years, it helps the military deal with an untenable situation. It was cut, and cut deeply, even before Sequestration. The mission of the military is a Constitutional enterprise - handing out SNAP cards and SSDI checks isn't. So I support relief from the Sequester for the military.

I see war on the horizon. First, with regards to Iran, second with regards to China. Either or both of those will be bloody and cataclysmic. Wars, as you well know, are "come as you are" these days.

The GOP were fools to even consider the original "formula" for the Sequester (DoD is ~17.5% of the budget, yet it "pays for" 50% of all Sequester cuts). Horrible policy, horrible deal.

So, full disclosure again, I am a military retiree like you and I am willing to see benefit cuts if they help us solve our fiscal woes. The problem is, they say they save a whopping $6 Billion over several years by changing the rules on military retirees, but then they turn around and starting ladling out Billions the next week for paying people not to work, ObamaCare subsidies to the Takers, Section 8 housing vouchers, utility subsidies, and all the rest.

We live in interesting times.

[Repeat Offender]

Promising a teacher a pension is a bit different than promising a service member a pension.

Unless you know of teachers that had a limb or two amputated on the job, or shrapnel through the lung, or a host of back issues that inhibit other employment, or traumatic brain injury, or were otherwise left permanently wounded or maimed.

To renege on obligations and go after veterans that (held one of the few Constitutional federal jobs) signed a contract to forsake nearly everything else in their lives, potentially including their own life on behalf of the Constitution - eg We the People.........

all the while ignoring the billions and billions spent on federal pensions (lifetime congressional pensions after one term anyone?), welfare, section 8, foreign aid (particularly to "palestinians" and other terrorists), medicaid, medicare and on and on, is disingenuous at best. Especially when you look at the proportion DoD spending is compared to the rest of the budget.

And I don't know what "mercenary security forces" you speak of, other than private security firms contracted for things like State Department security - but, it is still U.S. troops patrolling places like Afghanistan, it is still U.S. troops on ship or at foreign locales that project U.S. influence by force - Not Triple Canopy, not Academi, not Tier One - active duty and/or reserve U.S military.

Now, does that mean there isn't waste in the DoD? No. Does that mean we can't cut nonsense out of the budget from DoD? No. Does that mean we can't scale back on things like the college funds? No.

But, starting with the DoD pension is BS if you ask me.

Full disclosure - I am 32 years old. Nearly half my life was spent in the Marines. I have four combat tours; not four deployments to a combat zone - four tours of getting shot at and being the pointy end of the stick for U.S. interests (Note: there didn't seem to be any of the mercs you mentioned to take my place). I have shrapnel in my lung. My back, knees, hips, feet, and shoulders are ruined I was medically retired a week ago. I don't know how long I can physically hold gainful employment as I have difficulty remaining in any one position for an extended period of time. And, I guess unfortunately for the taxpayer, I may live another 30 years.

[SkyPilot]

Those Democrat city retirees in Detroit are about to get their reward for voting for Democrats all those years....a nice 80% cut in their pensions. How loud do you think they are screaming? They don’t have the guts to look in the mirror and say, “We brought this on ourselves.” So, they threaten military retirement to try and get a bone to throw to the city retirees from Detroit.

I didn't even consider that one. Hmmmm.....so by next month, Obama could stand up and announce he is coming to the rescue of the Detroit pensioners, while at the same time the ink is not dry on a deal to take from military retirees.

Wow.