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An Unholy Alliance Is Forcing Veterans To Pay For 12 Years Of War
Business Insider ^ | 3 Jan 14 | Tony Carr, John Q. Public

Posted on 01/06/2014 4:32:25 PM PST by SkyPilot

Led by Paul Ryan and Patty Murray but abetted by Barack Obama, Congress recently gambled with our nation’s future for an extremely modest short-term gain.

In doing so, it was given aid and comfort by knowledge-starved pundits, axe-grinding editorial boards, and self-anointed armchair analysts everywhere, as it left the military and veteran community standing with their jaws on the ground in despairing disbelief. Exploiting pressure to strike a budget compromise, Ryan and Murray entered into an unholy alliance to reduce veteran pensions – including those already vested under previous covenants – by an average of $84,000 to $120,000.

They obscured this act, as often happens when attempting to mislead, by employing complex-sounding budget doublespeak to minimize the magnitude of the associated moral breach as well as the consequences to veterans and families. In a way, this debacle can be seen as part of our nation’s continual inability to comprehend and bear the costs of being a global superpower with quasi-imperial interests secured by less than one-half of one percent of its population. But the particulars in this case suggest something more disturbing lurking behind the standard wallet-grabbing Congressional milieu: a startling absence of strategic deliberation. When such a deficit impairs elected leaders responsible for national security, potentially grave consequences attend.

Good strategists always ask of any potential course of action two key questions. First, what will this do for us? And second, what will this do to us? Given the dearth of statesmanly impulse at the national level in modern America, it is perhaps unsurprising that in crafting the recent budget, Paul Ryan and Patty Murray asked only the former question, leaving the latter for others to worry about.

The provision at issue retroactively renegotiated the deferred compensation of more than two million military veterans...

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: jihadists; kenyanbornmuzzie; military; pensions; veterans; war
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"The shorthand employed by Ryan to sell his beloved pension cut envisions healthy, well-adjusted, fattened mercenaries stepping into corporate America to collect millions during the balance of their working years.

How he arrived at this vision boggles the imagination; most retirees struggle to integrate into a new workplace with skills that don’t directly translate while trying to keep pace with competitors roughly half their age. 73% of retirees are noncommissioned officers whose pensions are barely sufficient to keep them above the poverty line. As a rule of thumb, these people are figures of sympathy rather than valid targets of the socialistic “they don’t need it anyway” notion behind Ryan’s sales pitch.....It was a calculated breach of the faith for short-term political advantage. Ryan, Murray, Obama, Hagel, and the rest of those who pushed and supported this knew they were acting immorally, but were willing to accept doing so out of a rational calculation of what it would do for them.

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May God help us. If this injustice cannot be corrected, and quickly, we really don't have a nation that is worth defending any longer.

1 posted on 01/06/2014 4:32:26 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot
The woman on the right is Patty Murray. The expression on her face resulted from the instructor at the institution she's in teaching her how to weave baskets. Right over left, Patty. Then left over right. Repeat. No, dear, that hand is your right one. Now let's try again.

The person on the left is Paul Ryan. The expression on his face resulted from straddling a fence that turned out to be an electric one. His pants were already wet.

Thus, our, ah, "leaders". God help America.

2 posted on 01/06/2014 4:40:06 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: SkyPilot

I don’t think governments should lightly break contracted obligations with even municipal workers. But this is not only doubly immoral towards those who bore the burdens of war, it is foolishly injurious to the continued viability of a volunteer military.


3 posted on 01/06/2014 4:41:07 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: SkyPilot

This is wrong.


4 posted on 01/06/2014 4:43:53 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: SkyPilot

I’ve kinda taken notice how public sector (aka GUBMINT bureaKaRATZ) union THUG pensions ARE NOT EVEN ON THE TABLE.

You know, the Taj Mahal pensions with FREE health care, STEEP COLA INCREASES, and all the other STUFF that a faithful RATZ “DESERVES.”

You know, after their 4 hour days and 22 hour work weeks when they TOILED TIRELESSLY for the poor, pathetic pukes known as TAXPAYERS.

(In their cancerous minds they really do believe that they are the ANSWER to stupid Americans who really don’t “understand” gubmint, and just what the hell is “good” for them.)

Their answer to vets? “HEY, YO, STUPID! NYA, NYA, you did the hard work, now YOU pay for it, you IDIOTS! LOL. AND OH, BTW, KEEP YER DAMN DIRTY, WARMONGERING HANDS OFF OUR ENSHRINED PENSIONS!!”

Bureaucracy and bureauKaRATZ are PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE of the Republic.

Bar NONE.


5 posted on 01/06/2014 4:52:24 PM PST by ConradofMontferrat ( According to mudslimz, my handle is a HATE CRIME. And I HOPE they don't like it.)
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To: SkyPilot

Paul Ryan is a loser Eddie Munster. To think I used to defend the backstabbing idiot.


6 posted on 01/06/2014 4:53:02 PM PST by madison10
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To: SkyPilot

My COLA for 2014 is only 1.5 percent for my modest federal pension and for a couple years there, we weren’t getting any COLA. Not eligible for SS because my time was federal and even if I did eventually get my 40 quarters after working some crappy lowpaying job which is all that’s out there for most people, the Government Pension Offset would take 60 percent of it because the government doesn’t want us to double dip. Respectfully, why should I care about military vets - government is saying they’re double dipping.


7 posted on 01/06/2014 4:57:20 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: SkyPilot
We real Americans need to form a "charity" (for lack of a better term) to assist those true Americans who need our help.

We have the money and we care enough to do this.

We can step around the government.

8 posted on 01/06/2014 5:02:48 PM PST by RoosterRedux (The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing -- Socrates)
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To: RoosterRedux
We true Americans need for form an America within america.

There is nothing to stop us...it is perfectly legal.

9 posted on 01/06/2014 5:04:01 PM PST by RoosterRedux (The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing -- Socrates)
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To: SkyPilot

It is immoral and dispicable to ask us Veterans to take a cut, while ever expanding the welfare state. America is damned should this continue. The tree of liberty needs to be watered soon.


10 posted on 01/06/2014 5:13:38 PM PST by vpintheak (Thankful to be God blessed & chosen!)
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To: SkyPilot

Just asking.....if a pension cut of $120,000 for a single person, what is the actual size of the overall pension?

If it’s 5% that translates into a pension of value of $2.4M per veteran.

If that’s true, doesn’t that seem a bit excessive?

One thing is for sure is we can’t afford to make every federal, military, state, and municipal retiree a millionaire, or do y’all really think you’re worth it?


11 posted on 01/06/2014 5:26:09 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: SkyPilot

Care of our vets should be the first thing to fund and should never be cut.


12 posted on 01/06/2014 5:34:40 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: SkyPilot

our military members take an oath, “support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic...” they’re supposed to obey the orders of the President (an 0Bama instituted change to the oath).... it appears that our military folks are supposed to obey the orders of the President and to hell with the constitution... they’re getting a kick in the head from the President and the Congress... loyalty should go BOTH ways...


13 posted on 01/06/2014 5:37:31 PM PST by Ranger Warrior ("To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men." - Abraham Lincoln)
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To: SkyPilot

Perfect time and reason to get rid of McConnell, Boehner, and The clown in texas who wants to attack the Tea Party.

Imagine a Soldier having to protect the “Blowhard In Chief” from the weather. God help Us.


14 posted on 01/06/2014 5:50:26 PM PST by chatham
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To: SkyPilot; blueyon; KitJ; T Minus Four; xzins; CMS; The Sailor; ab01; txradioguy; Jet Jaguar; ...

Active Duty/Retiree ping.


15 posted on 01/06/2014 5:50:57 PM PST by Jet Jaguar
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To: SkyPilot; RichInOC; Prince of Space; JoeFromSidney; TNMountainMan; alphadog; infool7; Heart-Rest; ..
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

16 posted on 01/06/2014 5:56:13 PM PST by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: Jet Jaguar

Please add me to your ping list. Thanks.


17 posted on 01/06/2014 5:57:34 PM PST by TADSLOS (The Event Horizon has come and gone. Buckle up and hang on.)
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To: SkyPilot

The first law introduced in this matter is mandatory attendance at military funerals. It would work like jury duty. One hundred American citizens would be required to attend every military funeral. There would be no excused absences. The Soldier didn’t get an excused absence when he/she died. They would be required to shake the widow’s/mother’s hand. They can look them and the kids in the eye and tell them how the veterans are overpaid.


18 posted on 01/06/2014 6:04:51 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: SkyPilot

I read this a couple of days ago. Excellent summary of what’s happening here.


19 posted on 01/06/2014 6:07:05 PM PST by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: SkyPilot

Why, yes.....sitting in an air conditioned federal office drinking a latte and discussing Oprah’s latest show is EXACTLY like moving out under fire.


20 posted on 01/06/2014 6:07:15 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Ciexyz

“My COLA for 2014 is only 1.5 percent for my modest federal pension... Respectfully, why should I care about military vets - government is saying they’re double dipping.”
******************************************************************
I don’t know whether you left off a “/sarc” tag or not. If not, I’m sure that just as this subject legislation applies to ALL military members (both CURRENT and future) and retirees similar legislation needs to be passed to apply it to ALL current federal employees AND FEDERAL RETIREES. For federal retirees the 1% annual reduction in the yearly COLA should be applied for the first twenty years following the legislation’s enactment or the employee’s year of retirement (whichever is later). This 20 year 1% annual COLA reduction will be in addition to any other reduction that may apply.

Surely you’ll agree with this in the same spirit in which you have no care about our military retirees’ reductions. Write your congressman now and demand this. Hell, maybe it can be used to pay for an extension of unemployment benefits.


21 posted on 01/06/2014 6:12:12 PM PST by House Atreides
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To: SkyPilot

As one of those filthy retired Veterans, let me make it clear again. If my country needs some of my COLA to survive,then I’ll go down to the IRS and write a check on top of it. That’s not what this theft from retired Veterans is about. Nobody’s taxes go down. The deficit doesn’t go down. The budget isn’t balanced. It’s not even an attempt at any of this. This “compromise” budget was Ryan and Murray taking money from retired Veterans to give to HEADSTART and Education TO BUY VOTES FOR THE DEMOCRAT PARTY. It was never about helping our nation. It is about helping the Democrat party.


22 posted on 01/06/2014 6:14:43 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: RFEngineer

Since money is of no concern to you, please send everything you have to Free Republic. It’s only your money, so who cares?


23 posted on 01/06/2014 6:25:12 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: SkyPilot

Remind me about how much time Mr. Obama, Rep. Ryan and Sen. Murray spent in uniform.


24 posted on 01/06/2014 6:32:01 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (A courageous man finds a way, an ordinary man finds an excuse.)
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To: SkyPilot

“The shorthand employed by Ryan to sell his beloved pension cut envisions healthy, well-adjusted, fattened mercenaries ...”

But he forgot about the ones who had lost arms, legs, paralyzed, etc., you know the ones that are significantly less than healthy, well-adjusted, fattened, etc. with no possibility of stepping into corporate America or anywhere for that matter.


25 posted on 01/06/2014 6:34:24 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (It's difficult to differentiate between a hog calling contest and a Senate rollcall.)
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To: SkyPilot

And besides, why am I seeing ads on TV everyday for Paralyzed Veterans, Wounded Warriors, etc. doing VA’s job?


26 posted on 01/06/2014 6:36:00 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (It's difficult to differentiate between a hog calling contest and a Senate rollcall.)
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To: RFEngineer

Understanding Military Retirement Pay
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/generalpay/a/retirementpay.htm


27 posted on 01/06/2014 6:39:31 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (A courageous man finds a way, an ordinary man finds an excuse.)
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To: blueunicorn6

“Since money is of no concern to you, please send everything you have to Free Republic. It’s only your money, so who cares?”

So should taxpayers (like me) make every federal, military, state, and municipal retiree a millionaire (like you, maybe)?

I’m just asking.

I already know that we can’t afford it, but I’m just wondering about folks expectations.


28 posted on 01/06/2014 6:47:38 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: blueunicorn6; All
As one of those filthy retired Veterans, let me make it clear again. If my country needs some of my COLA to survive,then I’ll go down to the IRS and write a check on top of it. That’s not what this theft from retired Veterans is about. Nobody’s taxes go down. The deficit doesn’t go down. The budget isn’t balanced. It’s not even an attempt at any of this. This “compromise” budget was Ryan and Murray taking money from retired Veterans to give to HEADSTART and Education TO BUY VOTES FOR THE DEMOCRAT PARTY. It was never about helping our nation. It is about helping the Democrat party.

THIS.

29 posted on 01/06/2014 6:48:33 PM PST by TADSLOS (The Event Horizon has come and gone. Buckle up and hang on.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

So should taxpayers (like me) make every federal, military, state, and municipal retiree a millionaire?


30 posted on 01/06/2014 6:48:50 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer

I’m just asking, too. I’ve already posted that I’m a filthy retired Veteran. Please list your name and employer with address. Then, we can all write and let them know you don’t need any money and especially no retirement. We’re your buddies. If you want to be free with my money, I’ll be free with yours.


31 posted on 01/06/2014 6:54:38 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Ciexyz

Not sure what to think. Obviously I don’t like the idea of a pension I am planning on changing. On the other hand, I do hear the old guys talking about retiring at 40 and getting a federal job to get two pensions.


32 posted on 01/06/2014 6:57:18 PM PST by chargers fan
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To: blueunicorn6

Don’t you think a multi-million dollar retirement package is excessive for federal, military, municipal, or state retirees?

It’s like Detroit on a national level.


33 posted on 01/06/2014 6:59:54 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: RoosterRedux

Finding those who are willing to do the work at cost and not skim will be hard. Always check the give rate on any charity. There are untrustworthy groups using vets now. Charity is not something anyone likes to ask for. The problem is they were promised these benefits by the people, by us. We have to get together and fight for them now.


34 posted on 01/06/2014 7:05:48 PM PST by huldah1776
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To: RFEngineer
You're lumping apples (military) retirees in with oranges (federal, state and municipal) retirees. When enemy forces seize or assault DMV or IRS offices or the county tax department, then you can conflate government drones and bureaucrats with Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines. When civilian employees of the government are forced to go overseas, away from their families and live in tents or foxholes or the hold of a ship and are shot at, bombed, bayoneted, gassed or raped on the job without surcease, then your post would make sense. Because of my service, for example, I have heart disease, hypertension, edema, nerve damage and hearing loss. Should I lay along the thoroughfare and beg for alms?
35 posted on 01/06/2014 7:07:20 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (A courageous man finds a way, an ordinary man finds an excuse.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Since federal, military, municipal, and state retirees all require present year taxpayer funds (and funds to be borrowed to make up the difference) to be taken in order to get paid, I ask again:

Should federal, military municipal, and state retirees be awarded multi-million dollar pensions?

If you are worth it, just say so.

Nevertheless, we can’t afford it, and can’t pay it. It’s just a financial fact.

So what do we do? Pretend that it isn’t true?


36 posted on 01/06/2014 7:14:59 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer
Again, the nation didn't promise any civilian workers retirement pay (really retainer pay, as they can be recalled to active duty) after 20+ years service and free medical for life (which they've already reneged on) but that is EXACTLY what they promised the armed forces. BTW, I'm not military retired, I'm a service-connected disabled veteran, but six of one, half-dozen of another. I don't know that we can afford to fulfill the expectations of the civilian bureaucrats, but if we don't respect the military retired and other veterans, who, exactly, do you think will fight the next war or insurrection? You and your neighbors?
37 posted on 01/06/2014 7:21:01 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (A courageous man finds a way, an ordinary man finds an excuse.)
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To: RFEngineer

Can’t afford it? There are about 50 million on food stamps, millions on TANF, millions in Section 8 housing and many millions in other welfare programs. Until all those programs are kaput, I don’t want to hear a peep out of you or anyone else about cutting veteran’s benefits of any kind. Comprende?!


38 posted on 01/06/2014 7:25:53 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (A courageous man finds a way, an ordinary man finds an excuse.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

So should federal, military, municipal, or state employees be awarded multi-million dollar pensions?


39 posted on 01/06/2014 7:29:48 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Isn’t a multi-million dollar pension excessive for federal, military, state and municipal employees though?


40 posted on 01/06/2014 7:31:38 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer

An E-6, probably the most common retiree, makes around $1,500 a month before taxes. Do the math. Is there a million dollars there?


41 posted on 01/06/2014 7:44:32 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (A courageous man finds a way, an ordinary man finds an excuse.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

With cola’s and med benefits, of course there is.

Now where do you think that money comes from?

Most likely, like most folks who get a check from government the answer is “i don’t care as long as it keeps coming”.


42 posted on 01/07/2014 5:40:21 AM PST by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer

So you’re “fiscal only” and damn the troops conservative? I’ve met your kind before, both here and in real life. I have no use for you people. Crawl back to where you came from. Next war, I’ll be pinging you to enlist, got it?


43 posted on 01/07/2014 11:37:29 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (A courageous man finds a way, an ordinary man finds an excuse.)
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To: RFEngineer

You do know that those “med benefits” were supposed to be free and are now just a bad insurance policy that the retiree has to pay for, like Obamacare, right? And the COLAs are usually around 1%? There is no million dollars there unless the individual lives to be 245 years old, if then...


44 posted on 01/07/2014 11:39:58 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (A courageous man finds a way, an ordinary man finds an excuse.)
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To: RFEngineer

The article is not clear on the matter of retired pay.

The figure of $120,000 is for the entire lifetime payout, not per year.

No one is becoming a millionaire on US Military retirement benefits. I guess most of us are thousandaires, though.


45 posted on 01/07/2014 12:26:50 PM PST by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: dsc

“The figure of $120,000 is for the entire lifetime payout, not per year.”

Yes, so if it were a 5% reduction that translates to a $2.4M retirement package.


46 posted on 01/07/2014 4:10:19 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“So you’re “fiscal only” and damn the troops conservative?”

No, I’m an American, and a veteran. Is that ok with you?


47 posted on 01/07/2014 4:11:50 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“You do know that those “med benefits” were supposed to be free and are now just a bad insurance policy that the retiree has to pay for”

You do know that what you pay for your medical as a retiree is a mere small fraction of what other Americans pay for their insurance, don’t you?

You will still bitch until someone takes care of every little thing, won’t you?


48 posted on 01/07/2014 4:14:03 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer

We’ve already funded the retirement of retirees. The military may have the only pension fund that has been fully funded with no sign of going in the black. And while I would cheerfully still be in the military, that wasn’t an option - by law.

Military retirement is a deferred payment plan. And since relatively few stay in 20+ years, it is cheap - a pension fund where only those staying in for 20 years or more collect, and where the duty is such that people rarely stay in that long.

And the bottom line is that it was fully funded during the time we were in.

Now Congress wants to raid the pension fund. By cutting payments, it can say the fund is overfunded, and transfer money from that account into current spending - on tax rebates to illegals who didn’t pay taxes, or Obama phones, or the Dept of Education, or anything else that buys votes.

Maybe you don’t think that is corrupt. I do. If an “evil corporation” did that, the CEO would go to jail. Military pensions have been fully funded. Period. This is Congress raiding it, so they can spend that $600 million each year on Hispanic voters, or on welfare moms.

And anyone in the military needs to look at what Congress is doing to current retirees, even when there is no shortfall, and learn how much modern Americans - including a lot of Freepers, it seems - value their service. I used to strongly recommend young people consider the military as an option. No longer. My 16 year old daughter is the only family member without military service. Recruiters ought to LOVE me and my family. But no more...

Heck! If the people on FreeRepublic don’t care, who will?


49 posted on 01/07/2014 4:31:34 PM PST by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: RFEngineer

For a 2.4 million total retirement package, I’ll have to live until I’m 98. And I’m one of the highest paid military retirees around.

Now, explain what good things the Congress is going to do with this $600 Million each year. Cut the deficit? Reduce taxes? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has one function, and one only - to punish those the Democrats dislike, and reward those they do. And the idiots in the GOP think it is swell...:>(


50 posted on 01/07/2014 4:42:43 PM PST by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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