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Who should we blame for gay ‘marriage’? It’s not who you think
LifeSite News ^ | 1-14-14 | Carissa Mulder

Posted on 01/14/2014 9:30:26 PM PST by ReformationFan

Last November marked the twentieth anniversary of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. At an event hosted by the Newseum and the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, RFRA’s champions shared stories of how the statute came into being and the long odds it had to overcome. Though no one was resting on his or her laurels, there was a general sense of a job well-done.

And then Douglas Laycock, one of the primary architects of RFRA, began to speak. He warned that millions of Americans view religious liberty as their enemy because they resent religion’s interference in their sex lives. Even though RFRA is a “super statute,” it will offer religious believers little protection if the nation turns against religious liberty. Statutes can be repealed. Courts can empty them of their meaning.

Laycock’s warning may seem overwrought, but consider just a few news items. In New Mexico, multiple organs of state government have said that a Christian photographer violated the law by refusing to photograph a same-sex wedding. In Colorado, a Christian baker was sued because he refused to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding, and in Washington State a florist was sued for the same reason. Christian nurses in New Jersey were required to assist with abortions or risk losing their jobs. And of course, there is the nationwide HHS contraception mandate.

(Excerpt) Read more at lifesitenews.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: blame; carissamulder; homonaziagenda; homosexualagenda; marriageredefinition; moralabsolutes; mulder; religiousfreedom; religiousliberty; rfra

1 posted on 01/14/2014 9:30:27 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan
Who should we blame for gay ‘marriage’? It’s not who you think

WHOM should we blame for gay ‘marriage’? It’s not WHOM you think

Whom should we blame for poor grammar’? It’s not whom you think

Carissa must be Fox Mulder's little sister ...
2 posted on 01/14/2014 9:49:13 PM PST by campaignPete R-CT (Let the dead bury the dead. Let the GOP bury the GOP.)
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To: ReformationFan

When it comes down to it, the blame falls mostly to those of us who didn’t honour marriage the way it should have been honoured. It’s only because of that did every other thing on this topic became conceivable.


3 posted on 01/14/2014 9:56:16 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: campaignPete R-CT
It wasn't whom!!!

It was wombs trying to act like they were fathers instead of mothers!!!

Now our youth live in a state of total cornfusion!!!

4 posted on 01/14/2014 9:58:11 PM PST by SierraWasp (Democrats these days are the "Glitches" in America's way of life and culture!!!)
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To: ReformationFan

This goes all the way back to the state sticking its nose in religious sacrament in the first place.

The issue is NOT should the state recognize homosexual marriage but that it has no business dealing in any kind of marriage - or divorce for that matter.

When tax laws and other statues favor one group of people over another you are asking for trouble.

This is a different issue from say abortion where innocent life is at stake.

At this point, I do not advocate any Christian getting LEGALLY married or any church conducting any LEGAL marriages in their building. Have the ceremony in a hotel ballroom or some other public place or a private home but the church should conduct NO weddings of any kind on church property. The couple should NOT get a marriage license from the state and the minister should, if possible, give up their right to conduct legal weddings.

This is the only way to get around this issue. The state will very shortly FORCE churches to conduct these ceremonies unless they simply say “We don’t do them at all. We don’t do any legal weddings”

Christian couples should have a “Dedication Service” or a whatever they want to call their non-legal wedding and then live together in the eyes of the state but not God. Do weddings like the Quakers. The couple stands up at that by invitation only service and says “We’re married”

Simply remove the club from the secularist hand. Agree with them, marriage as a secular institution is dead. Then change the laws so that the tax system reflects that.


5 posted on 01/14/2014 9:58:37 PM PST by Fai Mao (Genius at Large)
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To: Jonty30

Nonsense.


6 posted on 01/14/2014 10:07:44 PM PST by Fungi
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To: ReformationFan

The State did play a role though.


7 posted on 01/14/2014 10:12:48 PM PST by Republican1795.
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To: ReformationFan

Many/most heteros don’t honor marriage either..
Judging by how many cheat on their wives and husbands..
or divorce them..

Givernment Marriage is a legal contract between two people...
Religious marriage is merely an oath.. enforced by givernment as if it was God..


8 posted on 01/14/2014 10:17:16 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: ReformationFan

Who should we blame for gay ‘marriage’?
______________________________________

well if youre looking for the first one to make SSM “legal” thus opening the door, that would be Willard when he was gov of MASS 12 years ago...


9 posted on 01/14/2014 10:27:36 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: ReformationFan
Is this thread a repost?

Sex,drugs, and religious liberty

10 posted on 01/14/2014 10:52:28 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Fungi; Jonty30; CatherineofAragon; mrsmel

Actually the nonsense is yours.

Jonty is quite cogent

As we have devalued traditional marriage so has non traditional “marriage” gained traction in response

Divorce and bastard children rates are not a coincidence of homosexual marriage

They opened the door to declaring holy marriage unholy and relative


11 posted on 01/14/2014 11:08:44 PM PST by wardaddy (wifey instructede today to grow chapter president beard back again....i wonder why?)
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To: campaignPete R-CT

It seems ‘who’ is adequate these days for the objective case.


12 posted on 01/14/2014 11:16:45 PM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: Fai Mao

I agree wholeheartedly - why did the church start operating as an arm of the government and recording the marriage of individuals for them? Churches should have wedding ceremonies for church members ‘In good standing’ i.e. they attend church each week and are active in the church community and they are not in serious continuous breach of any of the rules of the church. If Church people then want their marriage recognized by the state they can go fill in the forms and do the state ceremony as well. Won’t that put a lot of noses out of joint for those who just use the churches as pretty places to get married in!

In Singapore they normally do the civil ceremony first then for those who want they go to a church sometime later and do the church wedding.

Mel


13 posted on 01/15/2014 12:19:51 AM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: ReformationFan; campaignPete R-CT; Jonty30; SierraWasp; Fai Mao; Fungi; Republican1795.; ...

The beginning of the rise of homosexuals in America to their near ruling status —coincides with roe v wade. They share the same moral system. Abortion and homosexuality are two sides of the same coin. People who believe in abortion also believe in homosexuality and vice versa. In a sense abortion serves as the sacrament for homosexuality.

Render abortion illegal and over time homosexuality will shrivel.


14 posted on 01/15/2014 1:15:23 AM PST by ckilmer
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To: melsec; ReformationFan; campaignPete R-CT; Jonty30; SierraWasp; Fai Mao; Fungi; Republican1795.; ...

Oh yeah, and one last thing. to understand the culture of homosexuality and abortion — you have to revisit the cultures of central America before Columbus arrived or the cultures of the Canaanites who were around the Israelites as told in the old testament.

In both cases homosexuality and all forms of abominations coincided with human sacrifice.


15 posted on 01/15/2014 1:20:14 AM PST by ckilmer
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To: campaignPete R-CT

Thanks. I prefer "whom" in this instance,too, but I can tolerate "who". In any event, it's distraction from the topic. Thx.


16 posted on 01/15/2014 1:46:40 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Doing the same thing and expecting different results is called software engineering.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

If Massachusetts wouldn’t have fallen to the sodomites, that dubious “honor” would have gone, eventually, to another of the loony lefist states. Canada was a major impetus, and its close proximity almost guarantees infection.

Not that Romney shouldn’t have resisted. There were several years of massive support for a marriage referendum in MA, but Romney squandered that opportunity.


17 posted on 01/15/2014 4:48:58 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: ReformationFan
If the law says that I, as a baker, must bake cakes for people or groups I find objectionable because what they do is legal, must I also bake cakes for Nazis? Say some Nazis walk in and want me to bake them a cake with a big swastika on it. Wouldn't I be obliged by law and the homosexual case to have to bake them that cake?

How about if I'm an African-American baker and some Klan members come in demanding I bake them a cake with a picture of a black man being lynched? Both Nazis and the Klan are legal groups. Wouldn't I have to bake cakes for them according to their wishes? How about sexual-fetish people? The list of disgusting but legal groups demanding identifying cakes baked for them could be enormous. Where as a citizen with rights of my own do I get to draw the line?

18 posted on 01/15/2014 4:52:01 AM PST by driftless2
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To: campaignPete R-CT
?It’s not WHOM you think

Isn't "who" correct here?

19 posted on 01/15/2014 5:04:53 AM PST by Salvey
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To: Jonty30

The general rule of behavior Mod is you generally get more of the behavior that is encouraged and less of that behavior that it penalized. Thus when the State began to reward those who wanted Divorce— when the State rewarded those who did not honor the “marriage” bond. The society saw an increase in such immoral behavior.When the State refused to recognize the Rule of Law— that when human law contradicts the laws dictated by God,Himself —human laws are invalidated. We saw an increase in invalid law. The corrupt State does NOT represent the Religious and Moral citizen and the State which begins to call evil good and good evil cease to act under the authority of God and it is the duty of the man called by the Name of Christ to resist and oppose those who take pleasure in those who live in defiance of GOD.


20 posted on 01/15/2014 5:07:55 AM PST by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: ReformationFan

The thief is uncomfortable with the cop hold the flashlight for him.

The sinner believes his conscience will be unburdened when there is nobody causing him to reflect on his behavior.


21 posted on 01/15/2014 5:18:38 AM PST by G Larry
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To: ReformationFan

The father of lies, working through fallen people.


22 posted on 01/15/2014 5:49:09 AM PST by JudyinCanada
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To: campaignPete R-CT
All of what the author states is true but it goes back even further than Griswold, it goes back to Everson v. Board of Education in 1947. Morality is based on religion. Griswold is the logical conclusion of the enshrining of the concept of "separation of Church and State".

The purpose of the religious clause of the First Amendment was to keep the question of religion out of the federal jurisdiction, reserving it to the states. The states were therefore free to legislate on the establishment of religion and to pass laws concerning public morality based on religious principles. This came to an end with Everson which for the first time used the principle of incorporation through the 14th Amendment to hold that the states themselves were also prohibited to establish religion. Everson would be followed in 1963 with Engel v. Vitale which prohibited school prayer and Abington School District v. Schempp in 1963 which prohibited Bible reading schools. Griswold and the present situation were the inevitable outcome.

23 posted on 01/15/2014 5:49:24 AM PST by Petrosius
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To: JudyinCanada

Excellent observation.


24 posted on 01/15/2014 5:49:44 AM PST by Luke21
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To: ReformationFan

“Now, since the family and human society at large spring from marriage, these men will on no account allow matrimony to be the subject of the jurisdiction of the Church. Nay, they endeavor to deprive it of all holiness, and so bring it within the contracted sphere of those rights which, having been instituted by man, are ruled and administered by the civil jurisprudence of the community. Wherefore it necessarily follows that they attribute all power over marriage to civil rulers, and allow none whatever to the Church; and, when the Church exercises any such power, they think that she acts either by favor of the civil authority or to its injury. Now is the time, they say, for the heads of the State to vindicate their rights unflinchingly, and to do their best to settle all that relates to marriage according as to them seems good.”

Pope Leo XIII, 1880

To the state in the modern era marriage is simply going to be whatever judges, pols, or the voting majority thinks it is at any one time. That’s it, that’s all it ever was or will ever be as far as the state is concerned.

FReegards


25 posted on 01/15/2014 6:04:10 AM PST by Ransomed
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To: ckilmer

I agree. Both of these evils go together. They both have the goal of obliterating the differences between the sexes and separating the marital act from the giving and creating of new human life.


26 posted on 01/15/2014 6:23:54 AM PST by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan

I blame us, society in general. we let it happen by being apathetic.


27 posted on 01/15/2014 6:58:58 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Salvey

“the use of whom is considered by many to be on its last legs in English”


28 posted on 01/15/2014 7:28:31 AM PST by campaignPete R-CT (Let the dead bury the dead. Let the GOP bury the GOP.)
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To: ckilmer
I can't think of any two moral issues that are more unrelated than the normalization of homosexuality and abortion.

At one time homosexuals were actually fearful that if it turned out there was a gay gene and doctors could detect it, then parents might abort their gay babies.

Opposition to abortion is currently on the rise. This is because more and more people are convinced there is a real victim involved that needs protection, i.e. the fetus.

Opposition to homosexuality is on the decline because people feel that there is no victim. If two consenting adults want to have sex, regardless of their sex or sexual orientation, then what harm does it do to others?

If your plan is to lump all of the social issues into one Gordian knot and require everyone to agree with you on every issue then you're going to fail.

Certainly we can claim that all sins are related in that they are all sins. Certainly there were weird cultures that celebrated certain sins more than others, and some of these chose to celebrate abortion (or infanticide) and homosexuality. Certainly we can write beautiful prose pieces attacking the "culture of death" in all of its manifestations.

However we are currently making some inroads on abortion, and we're having no such luck with regard to homosexuality in general or homosexual "marriage" in particular.

Why weigh down the fight against abortion by attaching it at the hip with the fight against gay marriage?

29 posted on 01/15/2014 10:56:45 AM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

Why weigh down the fight against abortion by attaching it at the hip with the fight against gay marriage?
.............
You’re talking tactics. I’m not sure that I disagree with you.

I said if the supreme court can invalidate roe v wade then homosexuality will wither.

Why? Because for mysterious reasons involved with the human condition the two are joined at the hip. You almost never see anyone who supports abortion also not support homosexuality. The two occupy the same moral system. The reason for that is the same reason that homosexuality in the priesthood and human sacrifice went hand in hand in the premodern world—that is the worlds that predate judeo Christianity.

But as I said, the focus should be on rescinding roe v wade. do that and the tide will go out on the other abominations. (and if roe v wade is not rescinded then the abominations will proliferate. that’s just the way it works.)


30 posted on 01/15/2014 2:21:14 PM PST by ckilmer
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To: ckilmer

You’re on to something here, but which came first?


31 posted on 01/17/2014 7:02:42 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

You’re on to something here, but which came first?
...........
abortion. it serves as the sacrifice or sacrament if you will.

abortion feeds homosexuality.


32 posted on 01/17/2014 9:13:36 PM PST by ckilmer
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