Ukraine, 2010 - presidential election. Red - votes for Timoschenko (45%) (most of the people speak ukrainian), blue - votes for Yanoukovich (48.5%)(most speak russian)
Posted on 03/05/2014 1:13:39 PM PST by goldstategop
Should there be a western-leaning Ukraine going forward, it will not include Crimea. The U.S. and Western allies should concede this from the start, and perhaps other of Ukraine’s 24 oblasts too. Crimea and its environs have little strategic value to the West, beyond the opportunity of denying them to Russia. But Russia holds all the leverage because they have the most at stake, and are the only ones willing to commit troops on the ground. Let Moscow annex these lands.
Ukraine is better off without Crimea. Critics will no doubt deride this yielding as weak surrender, but it is better viewed as a strategic concession. Ukraine and the West are better off without Crimea, and perhaps other Russian-leaning regions in East Ukraine as well. The Ukrainian interim government should negotiate exact borders – perhaps, say, Crimea and the three other oblasts that lead up to the city of Donetsk – with the goal of retaining the maximum population whose electoral balance tips unquestionably to Europe and NATO-friendly political parties. It is better to have a smaller Ukraine that is a united and confident member of Europe, than the current Ukraine that is an unstable political football between old Cold War foes. What remains to be seen is whether Moscow will attempt to invade, occupy, and annex other pro-Russian regions of East Ukraine as well. For this reason, it is better for Ukraine and its Western allies to get ahead of the situation and negotiate a concession settlement that guarantees a Russian withdrawal from elsewhere in the country.
(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...
In an ideal world, no one’s.
But this is territory fought over by empires and through an accident of history Ukraine is now the object of a bitter battle between Brussels and Moscow.
EU will assimiliate 1/2 the country.
EU and US just won’t give up.
Well, not as long as new world order globalists tell them not to.
I have to laugh at joining the EU means “self-determination”.
Joining the EU means giving up self-determination.
Nations that join the EU are required to submit to EU-Acquis.
Ukraine, 2010 - presidential election. Red - votes for Timoschenko (45%) (most of the people speak ukrainian), blue - votes for Yanoukovich (48.5%)(most speak russian)
Do at least a minimal review of the last 800 years of Crimean history, and not only will you be able to answer your question yourself...you will be embarrassed that you asked it to begin with.
Roughly half of US is Conservative (West?) and another half is Liberal (East?). Does that justify a break-up of our country? In Ukraine it is not even half/half, Russian minority is only 15%, and not even majority of them is pro-Russia.
Oh, please, indulge me.
You are probably going to say that Crimea is not historically Ukrainian. The answer is that NONE of Earth regions is homogenous, but you guys feel good dividing just Ukraine.
I’m ignorant too. Can you give a summary?
it always worked out for the capitalist side and horrible for the socialist side.
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North and South Viet Nam.
This may well just happen—and it might be the best way to avoid war—Russia needs a land link to Criema—lots of Russians live in that area and might welcome “Mother Russia” —Let those russians living in western Ukraine—move there, let the Tartars move to the west—Happy, Happy.
Ultimately, Ukraine's fate is in the hands of Ukrainians. This back-and-forth in terms of talking with the West and with Russia can only reduce the cost of keeping Ukraine's sovereignty. If Ukraine really wants the Crimea back, Russia doesn't have the staying power to keep it. The cost will be the lives of thousands or tens of thousands of Ukrainian lives. This is a yet another demonstration of the truisms that freedom isn't free, and that countries can ultimately only look to themselves for their own defense.
If territorial integrity is up for grabs (N and S Sudan, Ukraine), what about a Kurdish nation consisting of the Kurdish areas of Iraq, Turkey, and Syria? A connection to the Mediterranean through what is now Syria so the Kurds can export oil readily.
Note the way the Crimea sticks out into the Black Sea -- oh wait, that's Florida!
No one is joyous something like this. We honestly have better things in our lives to concentrate on besides having to worry about this mess.
However, we have 3 options here that will be the result of this situation.
1)Ukraine splits into two nations.
2) Russia settles in in this de facto puppet nation (like what happened to Cyprus with Turkey) for what will be a new Cold War that could last for years and lead to all sorts of proxy conflicts.
3) Full on shooting war that gets out of control and goes nuclear.
One will kill millions and solve noting. One will kill lots of people and will cost billions to wage for years. The other will cost half of Ukraine, cause lots of hurt feelings, and leave us looking weak for a long time.
If we let more of them in or give the ones here citizenship they can eventually make a credible case for that.
Which is why the deportation busses should be running 24/7 until the citizens of Mexico become a tiny minority of annoying visitors in the United States.
A velvet divorce for Ukraine is what should happen. Czechs and Slovaks had less differences. The Germanic / West Slavs in Ukraine have nothing but their memory of the Holomodor and the Tsars.
It would be far more stable. But not clear that would appease Tsar Vlad; he knows that Kiev was the birthplace of Russia and he wants control of the pipelines right up to center of Europe.
bump
The US should have a divorce, too. California to Mexico, New York and New England to Britain (both are on the path to ruin) ,Miami to Cuba, Delaware to Sweden (give them Joe Biden) and Hawaii to the Hawaiians. The rest would be a conservative USA.
"The moving RiNO writes, and having writ, moves on ..... "
These guys have all the clarity of mud. Remember the "best and the brightest"? RiNO foreign policy gurus, same deal.
If Great Russian ethnics clearly find life intolerably harsh and disappointing under the administration of their now-independent "little brothers" the Ukrainians, then let them seek a new life elsewhere among other Great Russians (and Kalmyks, and Tatars, and ....) in the vastness of Siberia. Being free of the Ukrainians should be incentive enough for them to pack up and move out.
No carve-up of the Ukraine. No more Sudetenlands. We've seen that movie and should have learned something from it.
No, that was yesterday -- about 20 years ago. Now they want the whole enchilada. The NALEO guys have tipped their hands in private conversations: They think they can become the swing bloc in American politics and negotiate their way to power undreamt-of. Why talk about running the gueros out of the West ...... when you can rule them all with an iron fist, from Atlantic to Pacific?
"Para la Raza, todo; para los otros, nada."
Czecho-Slovakia becoming the Czech Republic and Slovakia were the epitome of this peaceful divorce. But both sides wanted to separate.
In the case of Ukraine, Russia moved in millions of Russians over several decades and is now claiming strategic ports on the basis of protecting its peoples.
We have to be careful with the precedence, or else the Kurdish region of Turkey goes to Iraq and large portions of the U.S. go to Mexico.
“Serbia and Kosovo (split by the NATO bombing of 80 days and invasion). 15 years later, American soldiers are still in Kosovo, but no one knows why.”
Pro-Russian Demonstration In Belgrade, Serbia
3 March 2014
People rallied in front of the Russian Embassy in Belgrade to support Russia’s actions in Crimea.
One sign says: “Crimea is Russia, as Kosovo is Serbia”
http://www.rferl.org/media/video/skup-podrske-rusiji-u-beogradu/25286894.html
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