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Pope Francis: Church could support civil unions
CNN ^ | 03/05/2014 | By Daniel Burke

Posted on 03/05/2014 2:19:44 PM PST by SeekAndFind

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1 posted on 03/05/2014 2:19:44 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

MORE HERE:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/05/pope-civil-unions/6079507/

Pope Francis leaves door open for same-sex unions

AND HERE:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/did-pope-francis-open-the-door-to-same-sex-civil-unions/

Did Pope Francis open the door to same-sex civil unions?


2 posted on 03/05/2014 2:21:05 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

More reports here:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2014/03/05/Pope-Francis-Theres-room-for-non-marital-civil-unions/UPI-43711394050431/?spt=rln&or=1

Pope Francis: There’s room for non-marital civil unions

AND HERE:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/pope-francis-says-catholic-church-may-be-open-to-civil-unions-115641/

Pope Francis Says Catholic Church May Be Open to Civil Unions


3 posted on 03/05/2014 2:22:10 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

whoooah! Hope he’s being taken out of context.

Male to male sexual contact is a sick and gross sin in any context.


4 posted on 03/05/2014 2:22:20 PM PST by MNDude
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To: SeekAndFind

This is appalling.


5 posted on 03/05/2014 2:23:06 PM PST by Ray76 (How modern liberals think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c)
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To: SeekAndFind

No he didn’t. It’s an attack on the church. Fingers in your ears brothers WAWAWAWAWAWAWAWA!!!


6 posted on 03/05/2014 2:24:46 PM PST by DManA
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To: SeekAndFind

Why should the church support civil anything??? Render unto God ... let Caesar worry about the rest.


7 posted on 03/05/2014 2:24:54 PM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: SeekAndFind

So, Il Papa, what do you say about “common law” marriage (”shacking up”) and pre-marital fornication?

As long as you are opening the floodgates?

/s

Marriage is not only a covenant between one man and one woman, it is an oath before God and witnessed by the respective families, the church, the community and the state.


8 posted on 03/05/2014 2:26:27 PM PST by BwanaNdege
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To: SeekAndFind

to be teach against Christ’s teachings or God laws is to be an anti-Christ.

If this is true (and not another distortion by the media) then this “pope” has revealed himself as an anti-Christ


9 posted on 03/05/2014 2:26:29 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Well, that is officially over.

Headline “Catholic Church willing to accept some evil!”


10 posted on 03/05/2014 2:27:57 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Once again, his remarks have been taken out of context and spun to mean something he did not say.


11 posted on 03/05/2014 2:29:34 PM PST by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

RE: Pope Francis reaffirmed the Catholic Church’s opposition to gay marriage on Wednesday, but suggested in a newspaper interview that it could support some types of civil unions.

Not sure how Pope Francis defines the word “support”.

Does it mean simply to “tolerate” but not endorse?

He needs to clarify what he means...


12 posted on 03/05/2014 2:29:59 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: al_c

RE: Pope Francis reaffirmed the Catholic Church’s opposition to gay marriage on Wednesday, but suggested in a newspaper interview that it could support some types of civil unions.

Not sure how Pope Francis defines the word “support”.

Does it mean simply to “tolerate” but not endorse?

He needs to clarify what he means...


13 posted on 03/05/2014 2:30:21 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Disgusting. He will destroy the church with this.


14 posted on 03/05/2014 2:31:14 PM PST by Viennacon
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To: TexasFreeper2009
Several verses from Job jump to mind in a situation like this:

Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?” 38:2

“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if you have understanding.” v. 4

Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct Him?

Now I will have MY say: how DARE the pope or anyone else question God! or his righteousness! to try to 2nd guess God's morality is the height of blasphemy!

15 posted on 03/05/2014 2:34:00 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Has Francis become an Episcopalian?


16 posted on 03/05/2014 2:34:41 PM PST by miele man
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To: SeekAndFind

Guarantee this is a LIE!!! CNN LIES!


17 posted on 03/05/2014 2:37:31 PM PST by mgist (.)
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To: mgist

RE: Guarantee this is a LIE!!! CNN LIES!

What about the reports from other news sites?


18 posted on 03/05/2014 2:38:27 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?
9 Do you have an arm like God’s,
and can your voice thunder like his?
10 Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,
and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.
11 Unleash the fury of your wrath,
look at all who are proud and bring them low,
12 look at all who are proud and humble them,
crush the wicked where they stand.
13 Bury them all in the dust together;
shroud their faces in the grave.
14 Then I myself will admit to you
that your own right hand can save you.


19 posted on 03/05/2014 2:38:44 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I think this is where social conservatives made their biggest error, which was in their opposition to civil unions.

No matter what the beliefs about marriage are, and any moral and/or scriptural backing for them, from a framework of secular law for a pluralistic society with respect for separation of church and state, monogamy alone, in one fashion or another is still a preferable condition for any couple, on a number of different levels, beyond all the sciptural and moral reasons for preserving the human historical definition of marriage.

In fact, when it all started, the “gay” movement made the case for civil unions saying “marriage” was not for them. Yes they wanted (and got) civil union laws that provided most or all LEGAL matters equal with marriage, but with no confusion it was not marriage.

But, social conservatives case, and attack, that that amounted to “special rights” switched the debate to a move to change the terms of marriage itself.

It’s not too late, in my view, to get back to that point and get BROAD conservative backing in favor of civil unions. Why? I think the case for that is strong and I think the case for changing the definition of marriage is not as strong as some judges want to make it seem.


20 posted on 03/05/2014 2:39:42 PM PST by Wuli
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To: SeekAndFind; Gamecock; Alex Murphy

IB the IB?


21 posted on 03/05/2014 2:41:22 PM PST by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: mgist

Unless you see any of this coming from an official Catholic newspaper it isn’t real. Soros’ NCR isn’t Catholic. They twist everything he says and does. They are obsessed. There are few things I will put my hands over a fire for, and this is one of them. No matter what happens in the rest of the world, in the Catholic church, the Gates of Hades will NEVER Prevail.


22 posted on 03/05/2014 2:48:49 PM PST by mgist (.)
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To: Wuli

You are arguing for special rights for queers. You are fooling yourself in thinking there is a big difference between civil unions for homo’s and civil marriages for them.

You want conservative support for civil unions for queers? How about that same special right for polygamy, or allowing a state sponsored union for some perv and his goat?

IBTZ.


23 posted on 03/05/2014 2:53:45 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Wuli

No. There is never a “case” for promoting the vice of Sodomy in any type of “Justice” (virtue) System.

There is no “Right” from the Creator for this type of behavior which is dehumanizing (a vice). It strips sex of meaning and morality and reduces it to a dehumanizing “act” which actually does harm the Natural Family.

It is an intentional sexist concept devoid of Reason and Truth (Biology). It is irrational law-—which is unjust law and unconstitutional.

All cultures (and a true Justice System) has to promote Virtue in its citizenship. This is the slippery slope to promoting Vice in “Just” Law (can’t do it.).

It is the conditioning of children-—to flip Good and Evil-—which all Laws do because it “normalizes” whatever is promoted in “Just” Law.

Our Justice System is based on Natural Moral Law and sodomy can never be a virtue or “natural”.

If the CC accepts Civil Unions, it will be buried-—for there will be no Truth and it erases Natural Law Theory which is embedded in the Catholic Canon.

The concept literally removes Reason and Truth from the Catholic Canon. If the pope would endorse such an irrational concept which warps the meaning of sex and family in such an evil manner, he would be an Antipope.


24 posted on 03/05/2014 2:53:51 PM PST by savagesusie (Right Reason According to Nature = Just Law)
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To: Wuli

Would you be for civil unions if the homosexual lobby wasn’t pushing for Sodomite “marriage”? Would you bring it up had no one else done so? Is it a good idea, or is it a compromise? If it’s a compromise, are far are you willing to go? This is how the left has made headway in this country.

Progressive: We want 5
Conservative: You can’t have 5
Progressive: We want 10
Conservative: Okay, you can have 5
Progressive: We want 10
Conservative: You can’t have 10
Progressive: We want 20
Conservative: Okay, you can have 10
(The conservatives high five!)


25 posted on 03/05/2014 2:54:00 PM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Wuli

If you say yes to civil unions, then there is no reason not to accept polyamorous ‘civil unions’ or any type of union. What limits could there be?


26 posted on 03/05/2014 2:54:21 PM PST by Viennacon
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To: Wuli

I think there is a difference between individuals ( i.e. social conservatives ) TOLERATING an act they consider repugnant and CELEBRATING an act.

For instance, I personally disapprove of marijuana use, but that does not mean I want it criminalized.

So, to say that one tolerates civil unions ( i.e., the signing of a contract between individuals for the purpose of one inheriting the assets of another or giving another person the authority to decide to say, “pull the plug”, should something happen to the other ), does not mean one celebrates it.

Having said that, Pope Francis is in a different category. He is the head of a church with a worldwide membership of a billion people.

He should CLARIFY what he means by the church’s “support” for civil unions. He in fact, has an OBLIGATION to do so as the teaching magistrate of the church.

Does he mean by “support” -— not making civil contracts illegal?

Does he mean the church now declassifies sex between gay people who are now united civilly as NOT SIN?

So many questions that need answering and clarifying. I hope he does that now that he has opened the floodgates with his remark.


27 posted on 03/05/2014 2:55:41 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Responsibility2nd

Had another FReeper ‘fed up with zealots’ demanding the same thing after Romney lost.

They have no problem going down this slippery-slope to S&G.


28 posted on 03/05/2014 2:55:42 PM PST by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: Responsibility2nd

The left is never satisfied. They’re always arguing for more depravity no matter how depraved it gets. If we assent to civil unions, they’ll come up with something else to drive us to the left.


29 posted on 03/05/2014 2:55:52 PM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Wuli

Regardless of your personal opinions there are gay men who have officially “come out” and said that the LGBT organizations are attacking families and don’t speak for all.

Conservatives, at least real Catholics, understand that families are under attack socially and we have to fight to defend it. Most men or women in civil unions have dealt with coverage issues with their insurance carriers. The problem is when they demanded the right to adopt babies. Catholic charities/orphanages refused.

We aren’t simply dealing with nice people with certain sexual preferences.

Homosexual activists aim to ‘destroy the family’, impose ‘totalitarianism’: gay pro-family activist

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/homosexual-activists-aim-to-destroy-the-family-impose-totalitarianism-gay-p

The real problem conservatives have is electing Soros compromised politicians just because they have an “R” at the end of the name.


30 posted on 03/05/2014 2:56:51 PM PST by mgist (.)
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To: SeekAndFind

How could any Christian support any kind of “union” that is called an affront to God in the Bible?

As a matter of civil law “unions” may be a way for conservatives to accept a truce without support same sex marriage, but that doesn’t men WE as Christians accept those unions as OK. To be a leader of a Christians “Church” and say he could accept that is evil!


31 posted on 03/05/2014 2:59:27 PM PST by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: JSDude1

RE: As a matter of civil law “unions” may be a way for conservatives to accept a truce without support same sex marriage, but that doesn’t men WE as Christians accept those unions as OK

_______________________________________

That explanation of yours might be what Pope Francis actually means ( Despite the ill chosen word “support” ).

As I said in a previous post on this thread, now that the floodgate is open, he has an obligation as the ultimate teaching magistrate of the church to clarify what he means.

It may well be that he meant exactly what you just wrote above.


32 posted on 03/05/2014 3:02:46 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: demshateGod

Exactly right.

Civil Unions my (bleep). What Wuli and other and other leftists need to underatand is their tolerant and permissive stance towards civil unions is what has led us to civil marriages. And the obvious result?

Curtailing religious rights so that Christians HAVE to bake a cake or photograph a queer marriage or other such crapola.

We are on a slippery slpe and its only getting steeper.

And - BTTT - This appeasement crap coming from the Vatican does not help matters either.


33 posted on 03/05/2014 3:02:57 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: demshateGod

the homos will never be satisfied until they can demand you lick their butts and publicly exclaim how tasty it is.


34 posted on 03/05/2014 3:03:42 PM PST by MNDude
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To: SeekAndFind
Unless it comes from an official Catholic news site, it isn't what the Pope said. I get the impression these so called journalists are engaging in pure conjecture. I haven't even read the stupid thing, but I know my church, and know what is possible.

What they are doing is the equivalent of conservative media saying, “Obama says he supports Ukrainians.” “Is Obama warning the world that there will be another world war?” “Has armegeadon started? (headline news)

What legitimate news org does that?

35 posted on 03/05/2014 3:03:49 PM PST by mgist (.)
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To: SeekAndFind

TIME spin: “evaluate”
http://swampland.time.com/2014/03/05/pope-francis-willing-to-evaluate-civil-unions-but-no-embrace-of-gay-marriage/


36 posted on 03/05/2014 3:08:47 PM PST by Genoa (Starve the beast.)
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To: SeekAndFind

If true, the Catholic Church is done. Once you accept this, everything else will be forced.

Destroyed from within, after about 2,000 years.


37 posted on 03/05/2014 3:08:58 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: Responsibility2nd
And - BTTT - This appeasement crap coming from the Vatican does not help matters either.

What part of the media lies, do you not get. Understand that the Catholic church is under attack, along with all conservative values. Understand that the media distorts, maligns, lies, and markets their liberal agendas very effectively. Towing their line, does us all a disservice. They play way too many Republicans like kids, and have us going after silly issues and each other, instead of focusing on real issues, as far as I'm concerned. They lie, don't take the bait.

38 posted on 03/05/2014 3:10:29 PM PST by mgist (.)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

LowTaxesEqualsProsperity, I swear to you on my life that the Catholic church will NOT accept homosexual unions in any form.

They just want to impose this crap on society and the largest Christian church in the world gets in the way. They are doing everything they can to pressure and provoke, and it hasn’t worked. Contrary to what the media says Catholics are NOT leaving, numbers are increasing.

Now they want to pretend that the new Pope is somehow enlightened and has a different message, so the Catholic church will become accepting of homosexuals. They have managed to achieve acceptance in many other major christian churches. It will NEVER happen in the Catholic church.


39 posted on 03/05/2014 3:16:08 PM PST by mgist (.)
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To: SeekAndFind
"Open to," "evaluate," "look at," "situations," it's horrendous any way you slice it.

40 posted on 03/05/2014 3:16:23 PM PST by Genoa (Starve the beast.)
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To: mgist

Yeah, yeah, yeah. “Media lies”. “Don’t take the bait.”

Blah. Blah. Blah. I’ve said earlier that a few distortions of the Pope’s own words is to be expected. But come on. This guys opens mouth-inserts foot as often as Joe Biden.

There are some 4-5 threads on this subject already today. Look at them. And look at the number of Catholic Freepers who - while trying to dance nicely because it is their church - are still aghast at what their Holy Father has done.


41 posted on 03/05/2014 3:18:48 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: SeekAndFind
From the Christian Post article: "Matrimony is between a man and a woman," the pope said in an article by the Corriere della Sera, translated by Catholic News Service, but added that "diverse situations of cohabitation [are] driven by the need to regulate economic aspects among persons, as for instance to assure medical care."

42 posted on 03/05/2014 3:19:55 PM PST by Genoa (Starve the beast.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Maybe, but like you said he must clarify this or it shall be taken exactly as written.

As I am not Catholic and don’t believe in your theology where it pertains to the Catholic church, it really doesn’t effect me -it’s just a shocking statement!


43 posted on 03/05/2014 3:21:08 PM PST by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: SeekAndFind

this will not go well for the catholic church.


44 posted on 03/05/2014 3:25:12 PM PST by hondact200 (Candor dat viribos alas (sincerity gives wings to strength) and Nil desperandum (never despair))
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To: mgist

Hope you’re right!


45 posted on 03/05/2014 3:25:54 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: SeekAndFind


THIS is ALL I could find


Q
Many nations have regulated civil unions. Is it a path that the Church can understand? But up to what point?

Answer:

Marriage is between a man and a woman. Secular states want to justify civil unions to regulate different situations of cohabitation, pushed by the demand to regulate economic aspects between persons, such as ensuring health care. It is about pacts of cohabitating of various natures, of which I wouldn’t know how to list the different ways. One needs to see the different cases and evaluate them in their variety.

46 posted on 03/05/2014 3:27:02 PM PST by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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To: onyx
One needs to see the different cases and evaluate them in their variety.

Equals open door.

47 posted on 03/05/2014 3:31:10 PM PST by Genoa (Starve the beast.)
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To: SeekAndFind
cohabitating couples,

Makes it sound like they are roommates. Just sharing groceries, utilities, and a roof over their heads.

I hope the Pontiff is wise enough to recognize how the left will take a centimeter and pressure for a mile.

I also hope he isn't willing to reinterpret scripture in order to simply accommodate homosexual attraction and lust.

48 posted on 03/05/2014 3:35:11 PM PST by prairiebreeze (Don't be afraid to see what you see. -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: SeekAndFind

The article says the Pope “suggested.” More likely is that the reporter inferred, not that the Pope implied.

From this story we don’t know that the Pope used the word “support,” or any equivalent in any translation. I’m inclined to take this whole story with a substantial grain of salt.


49 posted on 03/05/2014 3:35:28 PM PST by EDINVA
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To: Genoa

I merely posted his exact quote.
This Pope is hardly my favorite and I’ve made no secret about that.

He doesn’t speak English and that’s already gotten him into trouble.

The secular American press are all too happy to make him into some kind of idiot liberal, open to changing the Church, which I’m sure he’s not.


50 posted on 03/05/2014 3:39:17 PM PST by onyx (Please Support Free Republic - Donate Monthly! If you want on Sarah Palin's Ping List, Let Me know!)
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