Can you say Vladimir? I knew you could
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day in the neighborhood...
Posted on 03/07/2014 10:28:51 AM PST by Jim Robinson
“Aggression by stealth is the covert/overt funding,.....arming...and training... of dissident groups in ‘targeted countries’, with the sole purpose of overthrowing the—very often—democratically elected governments, then installing ‘compliant puppets’ as the new ‘democratic’ leaders.”
A leaked phone call between the EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and Estonian foreign minister Urmas Paet has revealed that the two discussed that the blame of the killing of civilian protesters in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, is on the radical militiamen rather than the government police forces.
youtu.be/ZEgJ0oo3OA8
youtu.be/eXp-SiMXbnU
Olga Bogomolets, who gave the information to the Estonian minister, is a public figure and a respectable doctor, who has actually taken part in the Maidan movement from the onset and was tending to the wounded victims herself, along with other doctors. You can google her name. She certainly cannot be suspected of being a Yanukovich sympathizer. She saw the wounded and the dead herself, and also showed photos to the Estonian minister, who, being not too crazy about Russia himself, wouldn’t go broadcasting the news if he believed it was just a rumour
The Estonian foreign ministry confirmed the leaked conversation was accurate.
Transcript quips from the telephone conversation:
Paet: “And still, people are seriously concerned about the fact that the new coalition is unwilling to investigate what really occurred there . The understanding of the fact that somebody from the new coalition, not Yanukovych, was behind those snipers is becoming more and more strengthened with every passing day.”
Ashton: “I think we do want to investigate. I mean, I didn’t pick that up, that’s interesting. Gosh,”
Paet: “And second, what was quite disturbing, this same Olga Bogomolets told as well that all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides.” He also added: “She also showed me some photos and said that as a medical doctor she can say that, the same type of bullets were used on both police and protestors.”
Ashton: “Well, yeah…that’s, that’s terrible.”
Ashton says it is terrible but the fact that there has been no outcry from the European Union and no calls from the European Commission for an investigation, which should have come right after she hung up the phone!
.... They believed by joining the EU they would have easy street and all would be well... Instead they are getting cuts in their pensions and an IMF austerity plan. ...better said WE will control your country's finances..... plan will cut Ukrainian pensions from $160 to $80 so that Western bankers who lent money to Ukraine can be repaid
The 11 billion euros that the EU is offering Kiev is NOT It a loan...rather it's set with tight restrictions and control.. austerity plan will cut social services, funds for education, layoff government workers etc...
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03/05/propaganda-rules-news-paul-craig-roberts/
http://www.kommersant.ua/doc/2424454
Crazy reporting out there...am really angry at our media and those who aren't taking time to see what's happening on the ground...this is so much like Egypt when SISI and the Egyptian protesters were being blamed for all the killings, when in fact it was the Muslim Brotherhood and their terrorist people consistently to blame....even to shooting their own people...but the press took months before they untangled the mess, so they were falsely reporting most of the time.
This is what is happening...the thugs are in control of most of Ukraine and using their own oligarch militias to create what keeps getting reported wrongly as Putin's Russian Army creating these happenings...Then you have Ukrainian Military and the Russian Military on the ground....the dust has yet to settle and none are accurately reporting on who the players are in this field.
Reporters are going through the same things they did in Egypt because they refuse to identify all the players in the field.....and alienating those who are trying to stabilize the country..... Then reporters wonder why they get beat up and removed....they are seen as propaganda machines....which most are
....” Putin’s actions are not just entirely understandable, but sensible”....
Yep...not that I think he’s a good guy...but people need to hear what he is saying about who the players are....HE knows well who the thugs and terrorists are over in that turf....and he also knows how nation states like to use them.
I just can’t hardly stand the idea this Adimistration and our politicians have sunk so low they will use the tactics they are in other nations. It’s worse than disgusting.
They stick McCain into these situations because he’s so senile and so in love with himself that he cares not what’s really happening as long as he’s in the news.....he’s the scapegoat for Obama......he’s “Republican” even if name only.
I was reading Lukacs last night. Hitler and Stalin 1941.
In it he says he chose the name of the book and its approach because to see it a a collision of nations, ideologies, historical states and the like did it little justice. It was at root and under analysis, a conflict between two individuals or “actors.”
We would like to not personalize history to grand figures, but we have to be honest with our analysis and little actors, prompt middle actors and then empower major actors. All the talk of historical motivations, religion, ideology, economics and the like often has us ignore the true analysis — the players.
Statesmen, tyrants, scholars or dictators, we have to remember that following the movers and shakers of history is often what will allow us to see the truth.
Putin, as vile as he is, is a major mover and shaker. Obama, on the world stage, not so much.
The Guardian’s Simon Tisdall, anti-Semitism, and the “Arab street”
http://cifwatch.com/2011/02/13/the-guardians-simon-tisdall-anti-semitism-and-the-arab-street/
I guess you have not noticed that this Olga is merely being attributed to having said something, by the Estonian.
Instead of listening to what others claim she says, how about digging a bit into what she has said a bit more directly?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/28/ukraine-s-mother-teresa-of-the-maidan.html
From that article;
Last November, Bogomolets’ heart called her to organize volunteer medical aid for the very first protesters injured by Berkut police. She said that at the time, state hospitals refused to admit injured protesters under instructions given by the government. Using her contacts, she tried to stop hospitals from letting police arrest the injured activists. Someof the injured were being detained right after they awoke from anesthesia. Bogomolets’ office became a storage facility—big plastic bags labeled as “syringes,” “bandages,” “pain killers” and other first aid medicine contributed from embassies piled up right under social art and modern paintings on the walls.Just on the first day the fighting began on Feb. 18, the center of Kiev was flooded with 1,500 wounded people, Bogomolets said. She worked in the House of Officers together with other doctors, struggling to handle gravely wounded. That day, two patients died under her care—men shot in the neck by snipers. On the most critical moment, when the shooting reached the doorstep of the House of Officers, Bogomolets made a crucial decision to evacuate the hospital to her office, before the Berkut took over their medical supplies. Male surgeons working with her said she was their "courageous leader" for organizing the corridor for the evacuation.
Since then, Bogomolets and her colleagues have been busy lining up humanitarian help for the country. “We have already organized treatment for over 60 patients in Europe, in a few days we are expecting an airplane from America,” Bogomolets said. The country needed international involvement in reforming Ukraine’s ministries, she believes: “I suggested a full international audit of the health ministry,” she said.
She has been a powerful witness against the Berkut. For that, they must try to silence her, doing so by manipulating this story through the Estonian, twisting and turning her from being witness against the Kremlin backed power-tripper criminals, to being now against those of Ukraine who were of the "opposition".
Your lies published daily on these pages wear me out.
Instead of believing what you have been saying here for the last week --- try digging a little deeper. Try to falsify your own thesis, just to see if those can stand.
You will see that that don't, or only on the wobbliest of legs if at all.
There is more at the link provided above.
Try these on for size also --->http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/03/07/anne-applebaum-vladimir-putins-western-enablers/ the article there appearing also in Salon, but I prefer to not link to that site.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/03/05/george-jonas-standing-up-to-putin/
and check this out---> http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/04/russian-troops-called-into-crimea-by-former-ukraine-president-russias-un-ambassador-says/
What the Berkut could not do, now Yanukovych wants the Russian military to do for him (and his cabal). How convenient!... And they make up lies about Russians being picked upon in the Crimea. Do you believe them? You seem to believe every other Kremlin fairy tale.
Can you say Vladimir? I knew you could
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day in the neighborhood...
Who are these posters flooding this forum with the Moscow propaganda? I’d rather think that they are paid agents of influence, but I’m afraid they are merely Lenin’s useful idiots, Joe Palookas, faithful listeners of some ignorant radio blabbermouths, paranoid Soros haters, and victims themselves of the relentless Soviet propaganda of the past 50 years.
But some may be pros.
Lol...So now the Foreign Minister of Estonia is a KGB stooge?
You're getting less coherent with each passing day.
You're getting less coherent with each passing day.
Screw you. I said nothing about him being a stooge (though he may be) But we haven't heard confirmation from the good Ms. Doctor, now have we?
Meanwhile -- did you even go to the link provided? Or check up on what else can found of this Dr., yourself?
She was a public witness against the Berkut, in a powerful; way. Do you have a problem with that?
Trying reading. It could help your own decision making process.
Are you one of the "pro" disinformation agents, yourself? Or -- just a useful idiot?
You tell me.
America should put its own glass house in order before it throws stones at Russia.
Good points goldstate...
People following this crisis carefully are well aware who Dr Olga Bogomolets is, her contributions and status within the Kiev Maidan, as well as her current negative perspective toward the "new" coalition government.
She is no Kremlin stooge or EU puppet, which is why her evidence needs to be taken seriously and not casually tossed aside as more 'disinformation' by the diplomatic mandarins in Brussels.
Are you one of the "pro" disinformation agents, yourself?
If you’re asking whether I ride around in the "Putin=Hitler" clown car, the answer is an emphatic no. I’m not even sure how you all fit in there with Shrillary, McCain, Nuland, Albright, & Kerry all jammed together in the backseat
Which is why I gave you links to that which quotes her more directly.
This Estonian information in comparison, is hearsay. All we get is someone attributing to her having said things which can contradict what she testified previously.
Face it. You've nothing...or next to nothing. So wipe that smirk off your face.
She has already been the subject of one dirty trick. This week someone leaked a telephone conversation between the Estonian Foreign Minister and EU Foreign Affairs chief Catherine Ashton, which suggested that the doctor had said both protesters and police used snipers during last month’s clash. The revelation caused an uproar and called the protest movement into question.Dr. Bogomolets insisted that she did not indicate that protesters used snipers. She simply relayed to the Estonian minister what she saw that day – protesters shot in the head and heart. “What I saw were people who were killed by snipers and only on [protesters’] side.”
You could redeem yourself, and show that you were just fooled (along with many others) in this, by taking the info and link provided to begin a FR thread.
I'm not interested in links to some stupid story that purports to quote her, I want to know why the European Union isn't officially calling for an full blown investigation. I also want her photographic evidence made public and/or presented to an impartial judicial panel and I want her testimony on the record.
Are we clear Puffy?
First we were supposed to take for truth what the Estonian claimed she said, in a phone call that was allegedly hacked (uh huh, right, it gets better all the time) but as another link I just provided to you indicates, she was misquoted, but this latter you do not believe.
Then, you now turn to demanding there be an investigation by the EU, when just a few days ago, you seemed to be saying that those now in government, in Kiev, are a "puppet regime" of the EU or Brussels, and the CIA, too?
Let's recap a portion of the events mentioning this Dr. Olga. Here, dated Feb 18 Ukraine protesters 'shot with metal bullets'
That is in comparison to rubber bullets which had been used by the Berkut against the EuroMaidan protestors previously.
Then later, comes the [alleged to be] intercepted/bugged/hacked phone call between the Estonian and the EU's Kathy Ashton. As this article notes Ukraine crisis: bugged call reveals conspiracy theory about Kiev snipers
In the call, Paet said he had been told snipers responsible for killing police and civilians in Kiev last month were protest movement provocateurs rather than supporters of then-president Viktor Yanukovych. Ashton responds: "I didn't know … Gosh."
The leak came a day after the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, said the snipers may have been opposition provocateurs. The Kremlin-funded Russia Today first carried the leaked call online.
How convenient for Putin and Yanukovych.
But when I show you evidence to the contrary of the Russia Times sourced story --- you get your back up???
You will believe a story which broke first in Russia Times, but not believe anything that would show that story to be very likely a manipulation?
I called you smirking boy for reason of your recent posting history. You've been getting in a lot of faces around here, smirking and insulting more than a few.
The article also has this, purported to be said by the Estonian---
Let all Freepers take note of how well this one who calls himself 'mac_truck' (such a good American name, no?) is so on top of things, he now demands to see the "pictures" that the Estonian likely-to-be-Russian stooge claimed he was shown by this "Olga" person.
You have that "story" down, chapter and verse...yet seem to neglect or not accept anything that could complicate that view.
You have a smell about you, comrade. ...Or perhaps are just desperate to salvage your own pride, and not have to admit that you misjudged the events.
If it is due more to wanting the U.S. to not be further entangled in foreign disputes, then I could forgive you for that. In fact, we could likely find much to agree upon in that regard.
Meanwhile, try to not be such a jackass about it, and perhaps also admit the Kremlin very likely fooled you.
Otherwise, the thesis you were attracted to-- that the uprisings and protests in Ukraine, including the shooting of protesters on the Square was all some diabolical EU/CIA plot, comes across as little better than 911 truther-talk.
Forget about the media reports for a minute and try to focus your attention on the actual phone conversation between Paet and Ashton and what they're saying to each other. Paet describes talking to Ukraine MPs who are getting visited in their homes at night. He tells Ashton there is NO TRUST in the new government, and that there's evidence, that the old government wasn't behind the sniper shooting that became a turning point in the crisis.
Regardless who hacked the Paet-Ashton phone call and which media outlet it was leaked to, the You-tube of the phone conversation has been confirmed as authentic and cannot just be ignored as 'not news worthy' or 'explained away' as Russian propaganda like you and others have tried to do.
What should matter is what was reported to Ashton and what Ashton did or didn't do with that information. Now I happen to know that there was a team of European forensic investigators on the ground in Kiev immediately after the sniper shooting. What isn't known at the moment is who dispatched them, or what their findings were. My question is why not?
So my best advice is that you try to learn something from your interactions on this forum and stop trying to jump bad with people you disagree with. And if someone calls you out on your bullchit, back up your assertions with something more than false accusations and weak appeals to emotion. You're better than that and this forum is better than that. Sabe?
That's what I did, while you run off at the mouth...
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