Posted on 03/17/2014 11:17:11 AM PDT by Strategy
monumentally dumb for us to involve ourselves. you arm them and then you own the resulting mess. we already own a couple of messes. let Kerry and Biden blow smoke at Vladi all day but to get involved against the Russian nation like that is
tempting fate. Vlad has no CP Presidium checking his moves.
the State Duma is his instrument. he has the football.
I heard earlier today that this got Turkey involved. Turkey had been promised by Russia somehow that such a move would involve it.
Now with the “ugly winds” Barack Obama seeing something unfair being done to a Moslem brother, is he going to brook it? That it might be on behalf of Turkey, and not Crimea or Ukraine, that he will get the USA involved? It would be consistent, if probably tragic.
I was not aware that either (a) there is a large-scale insurgency going on in the US (or one that is about to occur); or (b) those who would fight to hold onto that which is rightfully theirs (not Russia's) might be described as "insurgents."
This is right next door to them, in a place that has been Russian far, far, longer than it was Ukrainian.
But it is now a part of Ukraine. (At least, it was before Vladimir Putin decided to annex it.)
What "mess," exactly, do you foresee, if we were to arm the Ukrainian military sufficiently that it could defeat--decisively and unequivocally--the Russian military?
If they ever got a chance to use those arms before a Bear sits on them.
Russia can’t throw “everything” at Ukraine. Not even close. They have too many other spots just waiting to boil over. If Ukraine can accept a 10:1 kill ratio (in favor of Russia), interrupt the gas pipelines (best done in Western Ukraine), accept the loss of up to 1% of their population (they lost 19% in WW2 and gained NOTHING), and basically just “tarball” the Russkis, Putin is in big trouble, in the long run.
Unfortunately, in the rest of the world, in the next decade, given the vaccuum the US is creating, there will be a huge arms race including nukes in several cases, and no way does that end well.
Funny thing about that Swift Boat. It could face intense enemy fire at point blank range (WELL!! Kerry said so!!), but the records show not one hole in the boat. I’ll bet the Ukrainians would really like some of those!
Correct. The Ukrainians can eventually force Putin’s forces out IF they (the Ukrainians) can accept a 10:1 kill ratio in favor of Russia.
One must recall that the Ukraine lost 19% of its population in WW2, only to return to subjugation by Stalin. We cannot really even begin to imagine the scale of the horrors, or the “national memory”.
Tymoshenko sounds like she would do it (have Ukraine fight), but needs to be more forceful about eventually winning, which she does seem to be, as she recovers from her back problem.
I’ve also seen some writings from protesters praising opposition leaders they did not really like previously, because said leaders were willing to stand in there as the bullets started taking out protesters. If the Ukraine’s leaders show courage under fire, Putin’s guys are (eventually) toast.
Also... If Ukrainians start dying in large numbers, pressure to send in assistance will build.
Oh. We were just supposed to let 5000 nukes drift to wherever...
I also suspect GW was glad the French did not have his viewpoint in years previous. I think his point was to be careful about entering alliances, not to avoid all.
the mess would be the bloodbath that would result. do you really not see this?
there is no way the Ukrainians could defeat Russia.
The American Revolution was a "bloodbath." So was the American Civil War.
Do you suppose that this means that they were just not worthwhile?
there is no way the Ukrainians could defeat Russia.
With advanced American military equipment at their disposal, I simply do not see why not...
Its not a great time to be spending the cash and
enabling people to get killed over something that we cannot change. And, we aren’t about to share “advanced American military equipment” with a neighbor of Russia, not very stable, full of desperate people who would sell that stuff in a heartbeat.
Although Putin does have those Kremlin guards in those oddball uniforms (I’m sure they were extra cast costumes from a production of “Daughter of the Regiment”), he is aware of his limitations.
I really do not know what "spending" you may be referring to. My proposal was that the US might sell this equipment to Ukraine--not give it away, for free.
Although Putin does have those Kremlin guards in those oddball uniforms (I’m sure they were extra cast costumes from a production of “Daughter of the Regiment”), he is aware of his limitations.
It remains unclear just what he believes those "limitations" may be. However, there would appear to be indications that he may move on the rest of Ukraine. And he also may attempt to take the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania (which, like Crimea, have large ethnic-Russian populations; thereby providing the perfect pretext).
This may turn out to be a squib, or it may be the Phoney War period, a time used by the Ukrainians to complete their mobilization. It's also possible that Ukraine's leaders are hoping that an Alamo-type event occurs in the Crimea. Putin is strenuously trying to avoid inflicting one on Ukraine, because he understands this could galvanize Ukrainian public opinion for a long war of attrition against Russia, which would end just like Russia's adventure in Afghanistan.
Get a grip. I do not think that this is any of our business beyond the trouble we have already caused. I believe that our idiot administration stirred this situation up by supporting the protestors who overthrew the elected Ukrainian government in the fist place. Perhaps if we had minded our own business last month, none of this would be happening now.
You have fallen for Russian propaganda.
I am about the last person you could credibly accuse of falling for Russian propaganda. I spent almost 10 years of my life doing border rotations on the old FRG - Czech and DDR borders. I volunteered for it because I felt strongly that we were right at that time. In this case, I do not believe we are. I have a son who is an Armor officer now. I don’t think he needs to be involved in this mess the Obama administration’s foreign policy “geniuses” helped exacerbate. Somebody here fell for the propaganda all right, but it is not me.
BTW, we weren’t right in Lybia or Syria either. Obama is batting 1.000 at being on the wrong side of conflicts that he tries to get us involved in.
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