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Tanks and trenches to defend Ukraine from Russia
The Telegraph ^ | 17 Mar 2014 | Damien McElroy, Donetsk

Posted on 03/18/2014 5:28:37 AM PDT by McGruff

Ukraine despatched tanks into the rolling terrain of the Donbas basin on Monday, putting its biggest guns back on the scene of the biggest armoured clash in history.

It was in this bleak but fertile landscape along what is now Ukraine's border with Russia that the Red Army routed Nazi Panzers to turn the course of the Second World War.

But as Ukraine's dilapidated tank units moved to muddy berms in the fields south of Donetsk city as part of face-saving mobilisation, the guns of T-64 and T-72 models were this time pointed towards Russia.

In responding to a reported Russian military build-up, however, Ukraine's military immediately ran into groups of activists who tried to obstruct their movements. In the village of Elenvola on the edge of the great plain, there was anger at the manoeuvres from their own countrymen.

"Russians and Ukrainians don't want to fight each other," said Ivan Inozemev, a prison warder. "We would be happy to be part of Russia if that's what happens."

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: crimea; putinsbuttboys; russia; surrendermonkeys; ukraine; viktoryanukovich; waronterror; yuliatymoshenko
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Some interesting history here.
1 posted on 03/18/2014 5:28:37 AM PDT by McGruff
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To: McGruff

It’s a suicide mission for the Ukrainians, and any general who sends them in should be shot. The Russians control the airspace, period, and Ukrainian tanks will be target practice for the Russians.


2 posted on 03/18/2014 5:34:39 AM PDT by ken5050 (I fear a world run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating)
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To: ken5050

So they should just roll over and do nothing?


3 posted on 03/18/2014 5:36:30 AM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: McGruff
T-64s and T-72s?

15 minutes of propaganda and a lot of dead tankers if fighting starts.

I see that the Soviet community activists are already taking orders from Putin to slow down their own countrymen. If only there was a country anywhere in the world with the strength to slow the Soviets ...

Interesting that the same actions don't seem to happen from the other side ...

4 posted on 03/18/2014 5:37:03 AM PDT by texas booster (Join FreeRepublic's Folding@Home team (Team # 36120) Cure Alzheimer's!)
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To: ken5050

at least make the russkies pay for it


5 posted on 03/18/2014 5:37:45 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: McGruff

a pox upon the Telegraph, won’t let me read the article


6 posted on 03/18/2014 5:39:22 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: McGruff

The litte guy vs the big guy


7 posted on 03/18/2014 5:41:32 AM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: McGruff
"Russians and Ukrainians don't want to fight each other," said Ivan Inozemev, a prison warder. "We would be happy to be part of Russia if that's what happens."

Sounds like they're nearly as committed and interested in Ukrainian sovereignty as, well, as Obama.

8 posted on 03/18/2014 5:42:14 AM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: McGruff

Sounds like the Ukrainians are preparing for a WW 1 defense in the year 2014. If Putin snaps his finger Ukraine is history. Ukrainians should resolve to fight a guerrilla war as the Afghans did to defeat Russia.


9 posted on 03/18/2014 5:46:09 AM PDT by kenmcg
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To: McGruff

The Ukranians should learn from the Afghans.

Irregular and nonstop treacherous combat.

Don’t send tanks, send IED’s.


10 posted on 03/18/2014 5:47:20 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: kenmcg

Stop reading my mind.


11 posted on 03/18/2014 5:47:44 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: yldstrk
at least make the russkies pay for it

It wouldn't make Russia pay anything. They will rout this "force" decisively, and they will appear even stronger in the eyes of those in this region. Nothing good comes from a token resistance that makes your enemy appear stronger, and yourself appear impotent.
12 posted on 03/18/2014 5:52:46 AM PDT by jjsheridan5
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To: ken5050
It’s a suicide mission for the Ukrainians, and any general who sends them in should be shot.

Blood is the only thing the world understands. Now Putin is a hero, lets see how he might fare as a butcher. The Ukrainians must set some type of tripwire.

13 posted on 03/18/2014 5:56:54 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: kenmcg

Exactly. The Ukrainians should plan for a long asymmetric guerrilla against any potential Russia occupiers, and it’s going to need to be understood that it’s going to a protracted and bloody affair, with lots of body bags going home to Mother Russia.

Afghanistan 2.0 in other words.


14 posted on 03/18/2014 5:59:50 AM PDT by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: jjsheridan5

think about what you said

so are you saying that the Warsaw Ghetto uprising wasn’t worth fighting? I differ. I say in the words of Patrick Henry: “Give me liberty or give me death.”

http://libertyonline.hypermall.com/henry-liberty.html


15 posted on 03/18/2014 6:00:55 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Girlene
So they should just roll over and do nothing?

Look what's happened to the "democracies" of the west. Our leaders are supporting a government that includes nazie sympathizers, installed after a coup manipulated by US interference. They're condemning a vote against that takeover that deposed an elected government.

What should they do? They should let the people vote whether they want to go with Russia or stay with Ukraine. Those who consider themselves Russian should not be forced to stay with a government installed by a coup, especially since we now know it wasn't a popular uprising that took over the government.

16 posted on 03/18/2014 6:01:05 AM PDT by grania
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To: Girlene

Yeah. Probably. Successful military planning starts a lot earlier than two-weeks ago. Here’s a clear case of not taking a knife to a gunfight.


17 posted on 03/18/2014 6:01:47 AM PDT by Portcall24
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To: Girlene; yldstrk
You're both very cavalier with other people's lives...

Sending tanks into today's battlespace without any air cover/support is a suicide mission. Period.

Do you remember what we did to the Iraqi tank divisions? During Desert Storm I believe we destroyed over 1,000 of Saddam's tanks, even those of the "vaunted" Republican Guard. I think we lost 1 or 2 tanks.

That's what happens when you send out tanks without air cover. Saddam didn't give a crap about his troops..I assume the Ukrainian generals have more smarts and compassion.

If the Russians invade, they should order the troops to destroy the tanks in place, and surrender.

18 posted on 03/18/2014 6:03:14 AM PDT by ken5050 (I fear a world run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating)
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To: grania

Still haven’t figured out why the “outrage” over alleged US interference, but not a peep about Russian interference.


19 posted on 03/18/2014 6:03:25 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: grania

I suppose it’s more posturing by the Ukrainians to try to negotiate some kind of face-saving deal with the Russians....perhaps to try to get a “Velvet Divorce”, which would be, all things considered, the best possible outcome here.


20 posted on 03/18/2014 6:06:09 AM PDT by dfwgator
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