Posted on 03/29/2014 9:48:27 PM PDT by nickcarraway
TBILISI, Georgia—Halfway through an otherwise coherent conversation with a Georgian lawyer last week—the topics included judges, the court system, the police—I was startled by a comment he made about his country’s former government, led by ex-president Mikheil Saakashvili. “They were LGBT,” he said, conspiratorially.
What did that mean, I asked, surprised. Were they in favor of rights for sexual minorities? For gay marriage? Were they actually gay? He couldn’t really define it, though the conversation meandered in that direction for a few more minutes, also touching on the subject of the former president’s alleged marital infidelity, his promotion of female politicians, his lack of respect for the church.
Afterward, I worked it out. The lawyer meant to say that Saakashvili—who drove his country hard in the direction of Europe, who pulled Georgia as close to NATO as possible, who used rough tactics to fight the post-Soviet mafia that dominated his country—was “too Western.” Not conservative enough. Not traditional enough. Too much of a modernizer, a reformer, a European. In the past, such a critic might have called Saakashvili a “rootless cosmopolitan.” But nowadays the insulting code word for that sort of person in the former Soviet space—regardless of what he or she actually thinks about gay people—is “LGBT.”
It was an eye-opening moment. Like Ukraine, Georgia is a post-Soviet republic that has tried to pull itself out of the sphere of Russian influence. Unlike Ukraine, Georgia does not have a sizable Russian-speaking population, and Georgians even have cause to fear Russia. Since their 2008 invasion, Russian troops have occupied the Georgian regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, about one-fifth of the country. Russian tanks are parked a few hours drive from Georgia’s capital.
(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...
“and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern”
“I think he’ll figure out how to demagogue the gay issue.”
Your use of the word demagogue implies he is using the gay issue just as a populist throwaway issue to gain power.
That’s not consistent with your claim that anti gay hatred is a dominant motivator for him.
Is he gathering power primarily for anti-gay purposes?
Or is his primary purpose something else, and the gay issue doesn’t mean much to him — just some populist issue to demagogue and gain power with?
I’m more worried about King Fubo’s anti-western rhetoric.
"There are illogical conservatives who sadly cannot see that they're being conned by Putin. They think because he claims to be a nationalist (is stealing from his nation not the best evidence that he loves his country they must think), and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern, means for the dilettante conservative that he must be a swell guy working towards a conservative utopia."
The point is that this is what illogical conservatives who are pro-Putin believe. Putinistas do not understand that Putin is a demogaogue. They see him as a devout Christian. In fact, they're gullible enough to see him as the great defender of Christ!
Which do you believe?
Do you believe Putin’s “dominant concern” is anti-gay hatred, or do you believe he is simply demagoguing the issue to gain populist power for some other purpose, doesn’t really care about the issue.
BLUF; he’s an opportunist, like Milosevic. I think he’ll figure out how to demagogue the gay issue. I don’t think he’ll outlaw abortions.
Okay then you didn’t believe at all what you were typing when you wrote this:
“and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern”
I’ve written this several times. You apparently didn’t understand. I’m saying that’s what Putin’s supporters believe, not what I believe. I believe Putin’s a phony. He may not believe anything related to Christianity or to what gays do.
OK, so then you didn’t believe what you typed when you said being anti-gay was Putin’s dominant concern?
He’s just using it in a cynical ploy to demogogue the issue for other purposes?
Your actual quote was,
“and he hates the gay agenda enough to make it his dominant concern”
You clearly weren’t referring to his supporters when you wrote that.
You were claiming that Putin’s dominant concern was being anti-gay.
Meaning all the power he was gathering was ultimately for the primary purpose of attacking gays.
Which directly contradicts your claim that he is simply using the gay issue in a populist way to gain power without having any real interest in it.
Leaving the whole sentence alone makes the point I have repeated to you several times. If you wish to misconstrue what I wrote by changing it, or if you wish to misconstrue it after I've explained it to you several times, then I cannot say that you're real concerned with what I wrote.
Defend Putin if you must. He's still a fraud no matter what you say.
OK, I apologize for misreading your quote.
I thought you were holding two mutually exclusive beliefs about Putin, but now I see I had misread all along.
Admittedly, it was a complex sentence. The clearest sentences do not exceed 10 words.
If you want to assess overall level of taxation, general government expenditure to GDP is the best indicator. Russia is at close to 40, just few points below major western countries and far above many others, China for example... What's more capitalism is not only about taxes (otherwise places like Rwanda would be at the top of the list) but also about the rule of law, intellectual property rights, corruption etc. and in this case Russia is terrible... forget about doing big business unless you are Putin's buddy. Small business ? You will have to regularly bribe people at 20 institutions, add to that CEOs of the largest companies hand picked by the president for life and that really doesn't have much to do with capitalism...
Anyway, let's say Russia is less socialist than USA... ok but then you could prove the same way that China is even less socialist... mmm let's post Xi Jinping shirtless perhaps ? Homo ? Saudi Arabia or Iran are far more anti-homo than Putin's Russia. Perhaps Ahmadinejad is also fishing shirtless... ?
You seem to admire Putin... Why ? I would really like to understand the logic behind it.
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