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Should America Fight World War Three in Order to Defend Estonia?

Posted on 04/08/2014 8:57:52 AM PDT by ComtedeMaistre

Estonia is a little nation of 1.3 million people, which was made a member of NATO in 2004. Estonia was once a province of the Soviet Union. It has a Russian minority that is 25 percent of the population, and Russia has vowed to protect ethnic Russians if they are subjected to mass violence by the Estonian majority.

Did NATO make a wise decision to bring in itty-bitty baltic nations that were once part of the Soviet Union? I can understand the importance of preventing the Soviet Union from being brought back into existence. But the lives of American troops are valuable, and should only be used to defend high value allies of the United States.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: estonia; europe; ibtz; nato; patbuchanan; patpukeanan; pitchforkpat; putin; russia; ukraine; viktoryanukovich; worldwariii; worldwarthree; wwiii; yuliatymoshenko
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Do you believe that a couple of dozen nukes falling in American cities is a price worth paying, in order to defend teeny-weeny Estonia? Or should NATO limit itself to defending high value NATO nations?
1 posted on 04/08/2014 8:57:52 AM PDT by ComtedeMaistre
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To: ComtedeMaistre

Obama will use the U.S. military on U.S. citizens who oppose gun control before he will go to war over Estonia.


2 posted on 04/08/2014 9:00:58 AM PDT by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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To: ComtedeMaistre
And who decides what a "high value" NATO nation is?

NATO's charter either means what it says or it doesn't. All for one and one for all.

That said, I didn't notice all the other NATO nations rushing to help the US in Afghanistan. Technically, that's where the 9/11 attack originated. Also, I still don't know which NATO nation was attacked to provoke the bombing of Serbia.

3 posted on 04/08/2014 9:01:08 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Cruz/Palin 2016)
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To: ComtedeMaistre

Where are the peace demands from the time of Bush?
or even the 60’s?

Where?

Where is the coverage on the MSM?

Where?

When did all accountability die?


4 posted on 04/08/2014 9:01:09 AM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: ComtedeMaistre
We have no real allies now. Japan and SK wouldn't do anything, the UK can't afford it...and Obammy wouldn't lift a finger even if Estonia was the "57th" state.


5 posted on 04/08/2014 9:01:48 AM PDT by Dallas59 ("Remember me as you pass by, As you are now, so once was I, As I am now, so you will be," -Epitap)
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To: Enterprise

But, but, we’ve always been at war with Oceania.


6 posted on 04/08/2014 9:03:17 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: ComtedeMaistre

I warn against foreign entanglements, just like GW.


7 posted on 04/08/2014 9:03:18 AM PDT by Zuben Elgenubi (NOPe to GOPe)
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To: ComtedeMaistre

If the USA does not defend all NATO nations NATO is worthless.

The Russian Empire should ask itself if Estonia is worth turning all Russian cities into nuclear ash?


8 posted on 04/08/2014 9:03:22 AM PDT by Reaganez
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To: ComtedeMaistre

Had we a President who had our best interests in mind, a simple threat made to RasPutin in regard to vaporizing a large Russian city would probably be enough to thwart him.


9 posted on 04/08/2014 9:03:28 AM PDT by CARTOUCHE (I'm an Obamacare truant. Waiting on the truant officer to arrive.)
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To: ComtedeMaistre

Yup. If we abandon little Estonia just because Russia threatens us, then no problem abandoning bigger allies.

Before long, they’ll come after us here - because we showed them how weak we’ve become.

Didn’t learn anything from Manchuria, Ethiopia, the Sudetenland? War came to us anyway, didn’t it?


10 posted on 04/08/2014 9:03:46 AM PDT by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: ComtedeMaistre

Last time I checked, we are still members of NATO, together with Estonia, and obligated to fight for each and every member if under attack.
Another thing, I wouldn’t count on any nukes reaching our soil - we are talking about rusted-through ancient technology, most of it falling on their heads immediately after launch :)


11 posted on 04/08/2014 9:03:53 AM PDT by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

NATO apparently stands for America doing the heavy lifting that Europe won’t do.


12 posted on 04/08/2014 9:03:59 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: ComtedeMaistre

You just implied that Putin started WW3.


13 posted on 04/08/2014 9:04:01 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Enterprise

“Obama will use the U.S. military on U.S. citizens who oppose gun control before he will go to war over Estonia.

We have a winner.


14 posted on 04/08/2014 9:06:06 AM PDT by Luke21
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To: Enterprise

> Obama will use the U.S. military on U.S. citizens who oppose gun control before he will go to war over Estonia.

You got that right..


15 posted on 04/08/2014 9:06:15 AM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: ComtedeMaistre

What a stupid push question this is. Defend it now or retake it later is the question. Russia will not stop until either it collapses or it is defeated. Ever read ANY history? Rhineland or Sudetenland ring any bells? How about “Peace in our time”? When we had them down we should have put the boot in instead of leaving them bases and strength to begin again. Germany and Japan are allies because we demonstrated strength. With Russia, Bush wimped out and here we are again. Get a clue.


16 posted on 04/08/2014 9:06:24 AM PDT by ricmc2175
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To: ComtedeMaistre
Do you believe that a couple of dozen nukes falling in American cities is a price worth paying, in order to defend teeny-weeny Estonia? Or should NATO limit itself to defending high value NATO nations?

Look. I'm COUNTING on a few dozen nukes falling in American cities.

It's the only way I get to use my prepping supplies.

17 posted on 04/08/2014 9:06:25 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: ComtedeMaistre
What kind of imbecilic question is this ... "Do you believe that a couple of dozen nukes falling in American cities is a price worth paying, in order to defend teeny-weeny Estonia?"

Estonia is a NATO country. We have mutual defense treaty to defend ANY NATO country ... period !!!! It wouldn't stop with Estonia.

18 posted on 04/08/2014 9:06:25 AM PDT by clamper1797 (Evil WILL flourish when good men WILL not act)
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To: ComtedeMaistre

They should have thought about that before allowing Estonia as a member of NATO.


19 posted on 04/08/2014 9:07:02 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Samogon

I don’t worry about nukes,it’s germ and chemical warfare that worries me.

Kill the people and retain the property and infrastructure.

.


20 posted on 04/08/2014 9:07:36 AM PDT by Mears
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To: clamper1797

My biggest problem is with Turkey being a member.

I hate to think we could get drawn into a war to defend a Muslim country.


21 posted on 04/08/2014 9:08:46 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Samogon

I believe NATO has changed...”attacked” has a different meaning now.


22 posted on 04/08/2014 9:09:06 AM PDT by Dallas59 ("Remember me as you pass by, As you are now, so once was I, As I am now, so you will be," -Epitap)
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To: ComtedeMaistre

Couple of dozen nukes? If anyone launches it will be SIOP 1; a full scale attack using thousands of warheads.


23 posted on 04/08/2014 9:09:46 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: Da Coyote
But, but, we’ve always been at war with Oceania.

Darn, I thought it was East Asia.

24 posted on 04/08/2014 9:09:50 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Diogenesis

NO! The Baltic States are not in America’s interest. Now Poland, Germany, yes. The Russian Bear will not move on Estonia—they are crewing at Ukraine at the moment. Watch as China starts to make a fuss in the next few weeks.


25 posted on 04/08/2014 9:10:04 AM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: cripplecreek
NATO apparently stands for America doing the heavy lifting that Europe won’t do.

That was always the idea. Europeans were willing to do whatever it took to stop the USSR, no matter how many Americans died.

26 posted on 04/08/2014 9:10:10 AM PDT by pgkdan
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To: Lazamataz

“It’s the only way I get to use my prepping supplies.”

Especially the sunscreen!


27 posted on 04/08/2014 9:10:37 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: ComtedeMaistre
Estonia was once a province of the Soviet Union.

Not by choice, it was taken by force in 1940. It was also once part of Sweden, and Alaska was once part of Russia, and parts of France were ruled by British kings.

Call me old school, but your question is no different than the issue of Czechoslovakia in 1938.

Selling out free peoples is a nasty business, and I won't be a part of it.

28 posted on 04/08/2014 9:10:48 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: dfwgator

I hate to think we could get drawn into a war to defend a Muslim Caliphate.


29 posted on 04/08/2014 9:11:22 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: ComtedeMaistre

Time to call ‘em as they are. NATO is now an aggressive expansionist alliance that bombed Belgrade to help Kosovo moslems, and attacked Libya and installed black flag waving Al Qeida. They almost attacked Syria, and instead had to settle for a secret war there.
And they are expanding as quickly as they can eastwards towards Moscow.

NATO ensures that America can be required to go to war to cover the ass of any wacky European or Turk who gets in over their head.
I heard it invoked joyfully here when that Turk jet was shot down flying over Syrian airspace.

NATO only makes sense if America gets final say over all foreign affairs of the other member countries. Otherwise, they can make decisions that drag us into a war we might not really want.


30 posted on 04/08/2014 9:11:38 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Mears

You shouldn’t. Creeping infiltration of civilized world by the orcs’ mentality and morals is clear and present danger, not some hypothetical weapons that orcs are afraid of themselves.


31 posted on 04/08/2014 9:12:22 AM PDT by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: Forward the Light Brigade

Poland will defend the Baltics, whether NATO wants it or not. The White Eagle is Rising!


32 posted on 04/08/2014 9:12:25 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: ComtedeMaistre

If they are NATO we have to defend them.
Which really sucks given the current state of the military and our treasonous leadership.


33 posted on 04/08/2014 9:13:23 AM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: ComtedeMaistre
Do you believe that a couple of dozen nukes falling in American cities is a price worth paying, in order to defend teeny-weeny Estonia?

I don't doubt many in this country would ask the same thing about Alaska... that is, if they can find it on a map.

34 posted on 04/08/2014 9:13:38 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Obama is so far in over his head, even his ears are beneath the water level.)
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To: ComtedeMaistre
Why should we fight to save Estonia when a really good case can now be made that we shouldn't even fight for America?

Should we put our lives on the line to protect Miley Cyrus's right to Twerk, the "rights" of gays to marry, the "rights" of mothers to abort their children, the "rights" of the people to socialized medical care, the "rights" of seniors to end their lives in "dignity" so we can spend their savings on bling, the "rights" of everyone that can walk across the desert to call themselves American?

35 posted on 04/08/2014 9:14:18 AM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: ComtedeMaistre

Most NATO countries are socialist enclaves and anti American.


36 posted on 04/08/2014 9:14:40 AM PDT by Dallas59 ("Remember me as you pass by, As you are now, so once was I, As I am now, so you will be," -Epitap)
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To: ComtedeMaistre

If we along with other NATO member states can not meet our treaty obligations, then they mean nothing. Of course we honor our treaty commitments. It is why NATO was established. An attack against one is an attack against all.


37 posted on 04/08/2014 9:14:44 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Reaganez

Maybe Estonia should decide to not repress their minorities. If everyone there has the same rights and freedoms,,, nothing starts in the first place.

But Europeans treasure their right to smash down on every ethnic minority group they can. (while treating the USA to endless assaholic lectures about how badly we treat minorities)


38 posted on 04/08/2014 9:14:50 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino

How is Estonia repressing their minorities?


39 posted on 04/08/2014 9:15:35 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: ComtedeMaistre

There’s no distinction to be made, as far as I’m concerned. A NATO member is a NATO member, and if they’re attacked, we’re obligated to defend them as any other. There are no throwaway members.


40 posted on 04/08/2014 9:16:27 AM PDT by VOR78
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To: ComtedeMaistre

It’s not necessary to go to war when you’re dealing from a position of strength. A strong America that would want to forestall Russian aggression by pre-positioning forces in Estonia... a NATO ally. You either support the mutual defense agreement of NATO or you don’t.


41 posted on 04/08/2014 9:16:27 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Obama is so far in over his head, even his ears are beneath the water level.)
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To: cripplecreek

RE post 12: well, yeah, sort of.


42 posted on 04/08/2014 9:16:31 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Cruz/Palin 2016)
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To: ScottinVA
A strong America that would...
43 posted on 04/08/2014 9:17:06 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Obama is so far in over his head, even his ears are beneath the water level.)
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To: Former Proud Canadian
That said, I didn't notice all the other NATO nations rushing to help the US in Afghanistan.


44 posted on 04/08/2014 9:19:51 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: DesertRhino
Maybe Estonia should decide to not repress their minorities.

1. Aside from Russian assertions, what evidence is there that Estonia is repressing minorities?

2. Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to how a suspicion of minority repression excludes a NATO member nation from the mutual defense pact that underpins the alliance.

45 posted on 04/08/2014 9:20:00 AM PDT by ScottinVA (Obama is so far in over his head, even his ears are beneath the water level.)
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To: DesertRhino
Otherwise, they can make decisions that drag us into a war we might not really want.

The only time Article 5 of the NATO treaty was invoked was after 9/11. The NATO countries agreed to go into Afghanistan because the US was attacked.

NATO kept Europe free from Soviet invasion and encroachment after WWII. Our policy of containment led to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

46 posted on 04/08/2014 9:20:02 AM PDT by kabar
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To: cripplecreek
NATO apparently stands for America doing the heavy lifting that Europe won’t do.


47 posted on 04/08/2014 9:20:42 AM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: ComtedeMaistre

If NATO does not defend its members and allies, then NATO will have been shown to be worthless and will collapse. There is a relatively simple way to counter Russian menaces against Ukraine and the Baltic republics: give Poland a couple of hundred nuclear weapons and medium range missile delivery systems.


48 posted on 04/08/2014 9:21:02 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: ComtedeMaistre

We need to take back the United States first and then worry about countries in our own back yard, like Venezuela, next, before we get to Russia’s Near Abroad.


49 posted on 04/08/2014 9:21:36 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: ComtedeMaistre

Sure. We all want barry as CIC to take care of business. Right? He can clench a dagger in his teeth.


50 posted on 04/08/2014 9:22:23 AM PDT by onedoug
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