Posted on 04/08/2014 5:49:54 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
Donetsk, Ukraine (CNN) -- Masked men with metal rods and Molotov cocktails prowl the Russian flag-draped balcony, surveying the crowds below. Stacks of tires topped with ribbons of razor wire line a makeshift barricade around the main entrance.
Two days after smashing their way in, hundreds of protesters have transformed this government building in the industrial city of Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, into the self-declared "People's Republic of Donetsk." From the clumsily erected bulwarks to the lack of a leader or concrete plan, the scenes are similar to the pro-European rallies in Kiev's Maidan Square in recent months, with one major difference: Many of these protesters say they want to join Russia and have called for a referendum on secession from Ukraine to be held by May 11.
The protesters who let us into the building are eager to show they are here entirely peacefully, but it is clear they are prepared for a fight. Doors have been locked and stairwells blocked at the top of the building to prevent the Ukrainian military from storming in from above. They've smashed the pavement outside the building to use as stones. A makeshift hospital and temporary cafe have been constructed, and locals are keeping the men and women inside stocked up on food and medical supplies.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
The East has most of the GDP. Also strong trade relations with Russia.
Almost all Ukrainian people speak Russian.
How can you tell a man from a man by ethnicity, if you reject the language criteria? Pedigree tests? Too cumbersome.
I noticed that you didn't make any comments about the lame "language maps" on this thread that are meaningless which promote an agenda.
Are you trying to be objective.
Here's another map that I've posted on this board maybe about 15 times.
And you're welcome.
Here's an idea.
You ask the person.
It's called SELF identification.
Put all of those maps together, and there’s no question the way out of this quagmire is to split the most Russian parts of eastern Ukraine from the rest.
Well, yes, if during an interview you explain properly what kind of answer you want from people. I'm still not sure that was done when creating the map.
I think you’d have to have a fairly detailed 3D map of ethnic Russians vs. Ukrainians, with population on the z-axis, to get a better idea. The map I posted at best would be a “two wrongs adding up somewhere close”: It doesn’t account for population density, but by focusing incorrectly on language, it also does not take into account that Ukraine is only 17.3% ethnic Russian, and in many “ethnic Russian areas”, the dominance is not overwhelming. (The converse is true in some other areas also.)
And in Kharkiv, for example:
http://www.expatua.com/forum/index.php?topic=13316.msg94149#msg94149
But... According to that last map, the region with the highest % of Russians other than Crimea is only 39% Russian. I suppose one could do the equivalent of gerrymandered boundaries, but even then it’s a mess.
Yes, recall the studies about rats or mice forced to lived in too densely packed conditions? (They go psycho, etc. Not all, but many.)
Well, my only “agenda” was to show that Ukraine is not anywhere close to 1/2 ethnic Russian, and that the population distribution even if just by language, in the East, is quite complex.
(Don’t shoot me, I’m on your side, or at least the average Ukrainians’ side...)
That’s about how I feel too...The US doesn’t have any vital interest in Ukraine yet Haartz article just said the head Military Officer would NOT be excluding the US troops from going to Europe.
Reporters asked again and he basically repeated NO nation would be excluded from troops on the ground if they determine now to do so.
I am livid about this...let the EU handle this on their own!
An interesting photo...did Putin know even then?
This has little if anything to do with the population.....this has to do with the active encroachment of the EU/NATO/US into the political affairs of Ukraine and adjoining nations......which began more than ten years ago.
Once US and EU violated Ukraine’s sovereignty and interfered in their domestic political affairs by fomenting, supporting, and funding the Right Sector and Neo-Cons.. the West and Russia Federation were at War.
Putin said in his march 18th speech, and many times before that...
.....“But let me say that we are not opposed to cooperation with NATO, for this is certainly not the case. For all the internal processes within the organisation, NATO remains a military alliance, and we are against having a military alliance making itself at home right in our backyard or in our historic territory.”
Well, this is convincing, I agree now.
Yes, I do recall those studies — reminders are around me all the time, since moving to the city. I’ve come to believe that population density is a major determinant of political ideology (a high-rise city scape is almost a bar graph of socialism).
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