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EPA ban puts Minnesota's ice rinks in tough position
Pioneer Press ^ | 4-13-14 | Nick Ferraro

Posted on 04/15/2014 6:23:23 AM PDT by TurboZamboni

The clock is ticking for Minnesota's indoor ice rinks.

By 2020, the refrigerant chemical now used at half the state's 240 arenas to make ice no longer will be manufactured or imported into the U.S. as part of a global effort aimed at ridding the world of greenhouse gases linked to depletion of the ozone layer.

The phaseout of the odorless gas R-22 is expected to be costly for arenas -- most of which are publicly owned -- because of an anticipated rise in its cost. After the deadline, arenas still will be able to use the refrigerant gas for existing cooling systems, but the supply will be limited to what is left over and reclaimed and recycled.

To what extent cities will be affected financially will depend on the R-22 market after the deadline, as well as the age of their ice-making equipment and if they plan to upgrade it, said Craig Flor, president of the Minnesota Ice Arena Manager's Association.

"This isn't impending doom for us," Flor said. "But there is a lot of concern because the big unknown is cost and funding."

Cities with decades-old cooling systems could swap them out with ones that use an environmentally friendly chemical, but at a cost that could push $2 million.

Some, such as Hastings and West St. Paul, say they plan to roll the dice and budget for the cost of leaks that could spring up from time to time until there is money to upgrade.

(Excerpt) Read more at twincities.com ...


TOPICS: Government; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: epa; epaoutofcontrol; hockey; ice; icerinks; minnesota; nannystate; regulation
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EPA- banning everything everywhere.
1 posted on 04/15/2014 6:23:24 AM PDT by TurboZamboni
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To: TurboZamboni

Ammonia was in use as a refrigerant for decades before the invention of chloroflourocarbons.....................


2 posted on 04/15/2014 6:34:46 AM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: TurboZamboni

So what we are saying is that fun at the rink....just doubled in price, and likely will double again within three years?


3 posted on 04/15/2014 6:35:19 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: TurboZamboni

Will DFL types make the connection between being reduced to roller hockey and their suicidal voting patterns?

Doubtful...


4 posted on 04/15/2014 6:35:41 AM PDT by relictele (Principiis obsta & Finem respice - Resist The Beginnings & Consider The End)
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To: TurboZamboni
EPA- banning everything everywhere.

Almost all of it based on unproven junk science.

5 posted on 04/15/2014 6:35:50 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Truth sounds like hate...to those who hate truth.)
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To: TurboZamboni

It’s also a problem for homeowners with AC and heat pumps that use R-22 too. And they don’t have a crack (and I do mean crack) Democrat Senator like Amy Klobuchar helping them.


6 posted on 04/15/2014 6:35:50 AM PDT by RightGeek (FUBO and the donkey you rode in on)
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To: TurboZamboni

Wait. Did MN vote for the one or not?


7 posted on 04/15/2014 6:36:38 AM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: Red Badger
Propane also is an effective refrigerant. It is used in many petrochem plants.

Of course they are already designed to handle flammable materials so it is no big challenge for them.

8 posted on 04/15/2014 6:39:22 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: TurboZamboni

I’ve still got a nice stash of R-11 that they banned in 96 for my old cars AC systems.

Obviously the commercial folks are gonna have to spend big bucks to convert.


9 posted on 04/15/2014 6:40:06 AM PDT by nascarnation (Toxic Baraq Syndrome: hopefully infecting a Dem candidate near you)
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To: TurboZamboni
EPA- banning everything everywhere.

It's the EPA that needs to be banned.
Morons.

10 posted on 04/15/2014 6:40:30 AM PDT by grobdriver (Where is Wilson Blair when you need him?)
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To: thackney

What’s gonna happen when all chlorflourocarbons, R-12, R-22 etc., have been banned for decades and the ‘Ozone Hole’ is still there?.......................


11 posted on 04/15/2014 6:41:02 AM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

EPA- banning everything everywhere.

Junk science for a junk religion.


12 posted on 04/15/2014 6:42:41 AM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: TurboZamboni

This will reduce the number of rinks in the country resulting in even more travel to and from rinks. Which is good for the environment? Liberalism is a mental disorder.


13 posted on 04/15/2014 6:46:13 AM PDT by nhwingut (This tagline is for lease)
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To: Red Badger

It will still be blamed on Bush. And racism. Don’t forget racism!


14 posted on 04/15/2014 6:51:16 AM PDT by 17th Miss Regt
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To: TurboZamboni

Banning R-22 may be OK in Mn where you can just open the windows to freeze your Rink. Not so good in warmer climates.


15 posted on 04/15/2014 6:52:31 AM PDT by TNoldman (AN AMERICAN FOR A MUSLIM/BHO FREE AMERICA.)
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To: 17th Miss Regt

It is my contention that the ‘Ozone Hole’ has always been there, since the beginning. Just because some geek ‘discovered’ it doesn’t mean there is a problem.

It’s like someone discovering the Grand Canyon and suddenly we have to damn up the Colorado river because it’s getting bigger.......................


16 posted on 04/15/2014 6:55:07 AM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: thackney

What about butane? I had a lighter explode in my pocket once and the butane froze my thigh.......................


17 posted on 04/15/2014 6:57:15 AM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: Red Badger

Ammonia is still used as an industrial refrigerant, smelly stuff and quite dangerous when there is a spill.


18 posted on 04/15/2014 6:58:39 AM PDT by dangerdoc
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To: TurboZamboni; thackney; pepsionice; relictele; Bloody Sam Roberts; RightGeek; Black Agnes; ...

Ammonia has been used since 1876 as a refrigerant and it’s cheaper, more efficient, doesn’t harm the Ozone hole and doesn’t contribute to globull warming..................

http://www.goodway.com/hvac-blog/2009/08/ammonia-as-a-refrigerant-pros-and-cons/


19 posted on 04/15/2014 7:02:32 AM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: TurboZamboni

20 posted on 04/15/2014 7:03:32 AM PDT by nhwingut (This tagline is for lease)
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To: dangerdoc

It can be, but the smell drives people away quickly at concentrations well below danger, doc.................

http://www.goodway.com/hvac-blog/2009/08/ammonia-as-a-refrigerant-pros-and-cons/


21 posted on 04/15/2014 7:03:42 AM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: Red Badger

Sounds like you can become a hero in Minnesota selling ammonia.


22 posted on 04/15/2014 7:04:56 AM PDT by nascarnation (Toxic Baraq Syndrome: hopefully infecting a Dem candidate near you)
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To: Red Badger

Yes it was, and when they had a refrigerant leak people would die.... But I am sure the EPA doesn’t give a crap about that.


23 posted on 04/15/2014 7:06:18 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: TurboZamboni

Thank gawd for the government, AGAIN!

Lets list some things that our government has helped to make worse or destroy through imperial regulations:

Light bulbs, dishwashers, clothes washers, clothes dryers, automobiles, stoves, furnaces, air conditioners, mattresses, pillows, toilets, shower heads, plumbing fixtures, insulation, paint, adhesives, laundry detergent, dishwasher detergent, insect repellent, fertilizers, etc.

Do you ever wonder why your parents appliances seemed to last 15 to 20 years and you can’t seem to get one to do much over 10? Why do they put all these plastic parts in our machines today? GOVERNMENT!!! They need to meet efficiency standards so the transmissions have to lighter.

All adhesives have to be water based and can’t have VOCs (smell funny). Dish washing and Laundry detergent can’t have phosphates any more. DDT was banned (could have saved millions of 3rd world lives). Diesel gas engines used to be VERY efficient... until the government decided they put out too much sulfur and mandated a different fuel.


24 posted on 04/15/2014 7:06:28 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (My whimsical litany of satyric prose and avarice pontification of wisdom demonstrates my concinnity.)
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To: nascarnation; TurboZamboni; thackney; pepsionice; relictele; Bloody Sam Roberts; RightGeek; ...

http://www.danfoss.com/BusinessAreas/RefrigerationAndAirConditioning/Refrigerants/WhyAmmonia.htm


25 posted on 04/15/2014 7:06:59 AM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: Red Badger

Sorry, but there are countless documented cases of death caused by ammonia leaks back when it was used as a refrigerant... Go back to ammonia you will have people dying once again when systems leak.


26 posted on 04/15/2014 7:07:45 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: dangerdoc

Ammonia is still used as an industrial refrigerant, smelly stuff and quite dangerous when there is a spill.

I have worked in ammonia spills and it was not that bad. It is lighter than air and disperses quite well while R22 will sink and fill low spots. R22 had little effect on ozone but the manufactures wanted to make more money and get rid of the competitors of R22.


27 posted on 04/15/2014 7:10:35 AM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: HamiltonJay; Red Badger

As long as it’s safe for “gaia” it has to be good, right?
A few less people may reduce the stress on “gaia” also....


28 posted on 04/15/2014 7:11:20 AM PDT by nascarnation (Toxic Baraq Syndrome: hopefully infecting a Dem candidate near you)
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To: HamiltonJay

You have to remember that was prior to the 1920’s rise of the CFC’s. Sealing systems and technology have progressed to a point to where that would not be such a huge problem today..................


29 posted on 04/15/2014 7:13:40 AM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: nascarnation

sell amonia that smells like lutefisk and the swedes will never leave the rink.


30 posted on 04/15/2014 7:14:38 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad and lived with his parents .)
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To: TurboZamboni

LMAO


31 posted on 04/15/2014 7:15:02 AM PDT by nascarnation (Toxic Baraq Syndrome: hopefully infecting a Dem candidate near you)
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To: Red Badger
Ammonia was in use as a refrigerant for decades before the invention of chloroflourocarbons.

And poor Frederic Tudor is still crying over the ammonia innovation.

32 posted on 04/15/2014 7:19:48 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Red Badger

Obviously technologies have improved, but no matter how well built all systems fail, and ammonia is toxic and if we go back to using Ammonia as our primary refrigerant, you will have people die from it, its just the way it is.

The fact folks died from refrigerant leaks when it was the primary refrigerant used was one of the big reasons CFC’s became the primary refrigerant used.. because they didn’t kill folks when they leaked.


33 posted on 04/15/2014 7:20:13 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay

Ammonia is also a component in meth-amphetamines. Farmer’s ammonia tanks, usually located way out in the fields, have been burglarized by druggies trying to make them. Now they have to have alarms and cameras to try and stop it................


34 posted on 04/15/2014 7:30:43 AM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

Ice, ice, baby!.................


35 posted on 04/15/2014 7:32:22 AM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
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To: Red Badger

Ammonia is still used in large scale refrigeration, including ice rinks.

The cost of changeover from cfc is another issue.


36 posted on 04/15/2014 7:41:30 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (No $#@t there I was...)
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To: Professional Engineer

Minnesota: saw off the roof and let “global cooling” do the work, LOL


37 posted on 04/15/2014 7:42:44 AM PDT by nascarnation (Toxic Baraq Syndrome: hopefully infecting a Dem candidate near you)
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To: Red Badger

We had a mass casualty event at my last job after an ammonia leak in a local food plant.


38 posted on 04/15/2014 7:44:47 AM PDT by dangerdoc
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Almost all of it based on unproven junk science.

Corrected

39 posted on 04/15/2014 8:14:23 AM PDT by mc5cents (Pray for America)
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To: TurboZamboni

Is the patent on the refigerant expiring?

Is a company waiting on “approval” for the latest “green” refigerant that will fix all the problems like the previous was supposed to?


40 posted on 04/15/2014 8:21:32 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: TurboZamboni

It never ends.


41 posted on 04/15/2014 8:24:10 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: TurboZamboni

The Fun Police.


42 posted on 04/15/2014 8:28:26 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: TurboZamboni

Gee, isn’t R-22 what the eco-nuts told us we had to use to “save the planet”?


43 posted on 04/15/2014 8:28:57 AM PDT by logic101.net (How many more children must die on the altar of gun control?)
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To: SZonian

Probably a company with heavy stock ownership by Pelosi,Reid and Algore.


44 posted on 04/15/2014 9:10:50 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad and lived with his parents .)
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To: TurboZamboni

Can’t wait until they ban CO2

it’s a greenhouse gas, yaknow. SCroTUS agrees


45 posted on 04/15/2014 9:12:27 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - Revolution is a'brewin!!!)
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To: Tenacious 1
Lets list some things that our government has helped to make worse or destroy through imperial regulations:

You left out Space Shuttle Heat Shields.
46 posted on 04/15/2014 9:12:45 AM PDT by Foolsgold (Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber)
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To: TurboZamboni

Who’s patents are running out on R-22 ?


47 posted on 04/15/2014 9:20:54 AM PDT by TYVets
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To: Red Badger
What’s gonna happen when all chlorflourocarbons, R-12, R-22 etc., have been banned for decades and the ‘Ozone Hole’ is still there?.......................

Well considering how many years so many have been banned from use as refrigerants and propellants and the time it takes to dissipate in the atmosphere, they already know this is BS. But it sure makes a lot of money for some like certain scientists and companies that make the new units to replace all of those old, now non compliant units. Wait until they ban 134a like they did R12, remember how poorly the AC units in cars worked until they finally used all the undersized evaporators and condensers they had on hand?

48 posted on 04/15/2014 9:24:16 AM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: TurboZamboni

Chinese maybe?

I don’t believe a damned word any of those FOOLS in Washington DC utter anymore...

I believe almost ALL of them along with their suited and armed minions to be completely corrupt...


49 posted on 04/15/2014 9:24:28 AM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: TurboZamboni

WE need to ban the EPA.


50 posted on 04/15/2014 1:17:24 PM PDT by ridesthemiles
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