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Combat Vehicles in East Ukraine Raise Russian Flag
Wall Street Journal ^ | 4/16/14 | JAMES MARSON

Posted on 04/16/2014 6:49:32 AM PDT by jimbo123

Soldier Says Ukrainian Unit Switched to Pro-Russian Side, But Can't Be Confirmed

SLOVYANSK, Ukraine—An armored column of military vehicles flying a Russian flag and carrying dozens of heavily armed fighters motored into this eastern Ukrainian city early Wednesday, a day after the Ukrainian army launched an operation to clear out pro-Russian separatists who had taken control of cities in the region.

It wasn't immediately clear whether the men were Russian soldiers or local militants who had gotten their hands on military vehicles. A soldier on one of the vehicles said the unit was part of the 25th brigade of Ukraine's airborne forces that had switched sides and was joining the pro-Russian forces, but that couldn't be immediately confirmed.

All of the men appeared to be wearing military uniforms without insignia, similar to the heavily armed uniformed men who have seized government building around the region. Ukraine's defense minister declined to comment on the possible defection at a parliamentary meeting in Kiev, local media outlets reported. The headquarters for the 25th brigade did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment.

The episode and others underscore the difficulties faced by the new government in Kiev as it seeks to avoid bloody clashes and as it remains unclear how tight a grip protesters hold. Some U.S. military officials have expressed concerns about the readiness of the Ukrainian armed forces for urban combat and have suggested that the deployment in the region appears disorganized.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: newrussia; novorossiya; russia; slovyansk; ukraine

1 posted on 04/16/2014 6:49:32 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123
Okay, now we have three versions of this event:

from the WSJ it was Russians or pro-Russian militants who got hold of APCs somewhere

from The Times (London) it was defecting Ukrainian troops joining the pro-Russian side

from a pro-Ukrainian-interim-government source it was Ukrainian troops using Russian flags as cover to infiltrate areas held by pro-Russian militants.

I think we can conclude we haven't a clue what was going on, who the folks in and on the Russian-flag-flying APCs were, or what they were doing beyond riding around in and on APCs flying Russian flags.

2 posted on 04/16/2014 6:57:45 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: The_Reader_David
I think we can conclude we haven't a clue what was going on

Exactly.
3 posted on 04/16/2014 6:59:47 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: The_Reader_David

One thing we know for sure is that American taxpayers will be sending a big fat check to Putin to pay off Ukraine’s gas arrears to Gazprom very soon courtesy of Obama and Kerry.


4 posted on 04/16/2014 7:04:30 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123

5 posted on 04/16/2014 7:07:41 AM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: BarnacleCenturion

6 posted on 04/16/2014 7:11:53 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123

More triumphalist pablum from the Putin bootlicking brigade. Russians murdering Ukrainians. Har har. That’s funny.


7 posted on 04/16/2014 7:20:33 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: The_Reader_David

“I think we can conclude we haven’t a clue what was going on.”

One of the main principles of modern warfare.

Large flagged armies have gone the way of the redcoats.


8 posted on 04/16/2014 7:57:56 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: lodi90

It’s clear that the West Ukrainian Banderists that are in charge in Kiev don’t know what they are doing.

It’s also clear the Banderists in Kiev don’t have the support of the Ukrainian military.

It’s also clear that a large group of Ukrainians don’t want to be part of Russia and also don’t want the Western Ukrainian Banderists to be running things either.

The West Ukrainian Banderists are good at throwing molotov cocktails at police and storming government buildings, but they’re not capable of anything else.


9 posted on 04/16/2014 8:11:03 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123

Can we honor requests of the Ukraine government to put Air Launched Cruise Missiles into each government building held by the Russian-speaking Pirates?


10 posted on 04/16/2014 8:11:30 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Mohammed was a Child Rapist and Islam is a Totalitarian Death Cult.)
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To: Uncle Miltie

You want to start a war with Russia over Ukraine? I hope you’re joking.


11 posted on 04/16/2014 8:15:08 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123

A few hours ago it was a brilliant move by the Ukrainian military to sneak into the rebel cities?


12 posted on 04/16/2014 8:18:18 AM PDT by McGruff
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To: jimbo123

Heck no! Russia has declaimed the Spetznaz looking guys wearing Russian uniforms (without insignia) who speak Russian, make calls back to Russia for instructions, carry Russian weapons, etc.

Those AREN’T Russians. Putin said so.

Kill them.


13 posted on 04/16/2014 8:22:49 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Mohammed was a Child Rapist and Islam is a Totalitarian Death Cult.)
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To: McGruff

It’s really a move by Putin to show the EU and the US that the Western Ukrainian Banderists in charge of Kiev don’t know what they are doing.

It’s to put pressure on the EU and US to force Kiev to add federalization question to the May 25th election.

Putin isn’t going to invade Ukraine.

He wants the US and IMF to pay off Ukraine’s gas arrears.

He wants federalization of Ukraine.

He want the regional governors of Ukraine to be elected by the people instead of appointed by the Western Ukrainian Banderists in Kiev.

He wants the Western Ukrainian Banderists to have as little power as possible over Eastern and Southern Ukraine.

And he wants market rates for gas from Ukraine from now on.

And he wants to humiliate the hell out of Obama.


14 posted on 04/16/2014 8:27:02 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123

Pal, you are projecting. What you are seeing a civil government in Ukraine now. Elections are schedule for next month. The Ukrainians running the government haven’t invaded their neighbors and murdered them.

There is a foreign army creating chaos in Ukraine. Putin can’t have free elections in Ukraine. He can’t afford an indepedent Ukraine while his kleptocracy robs the Russian people.

BTW, using your “logic” Ukraine is now free launch terrorist operations inside Russia in support of those groups denied self determination and federalism by Moscow.


15 posted on 04/16/2014 8:29:20 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90

How many candidates are running for President? More than 20, right? That means the Western Ukrainian Banderists will win of course thanks to vote splitting.

And then the Banderists will appoint the regional governors for the entire country despite the fact the regions don’t want Banderists running things. And then Ukraine stays a chaotic mess.


16 posted on 04/16/2014 8:34:33 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: lodi90

My other question is why do you want the regional governors to be appointed by Kiev rather than by being elected by the people?

Do you want Obama appointing all of our state’s governors instead of them being elected by the people, too?


17 posted on 04/16/2014 8:38:55 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123

You have a beef problem a government appointing governors? And then support Team KGB. LOL.


18 posted on 04/16/2014 8:41:14 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90

So that means you DON’T want the Ukrainian people to vote for their own regional governors? You want them all to be appointed by Oleh Tyahnybok or Dmytro Yarosh? How is that going to help Ukraine?


19 posted on 04/16/2014 8:45:05 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123

The federalism stuff is a canard the Russians are pushing to destabilize Ukraine. There is no real federalism in Russia. Everything is run from Moscow.


20 posted on 04/16/2014 8:59:54 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: jimbo123

How does Russian Army commandos assaulting and murdering Ukrainians help Ukraine?


21 posted on 04/16/2014 9:01:34 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90

“What you are seeing a civil government in Ukraine now.”

That statement is in opposition to all of the facts on the ground.

The “Civil” government can’t seem to project much power beyond Kiev.


22 posted on 04/16/2014 9:02:02 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: tcrlaf

The Russian Army is on the ground in Ukraine assaulting and shooting. No banderistas in sight, FRiend.


23 posted on 04/16/2014 9:04:16 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90

So, that video’d line of older women linked arm-in-arm in front of the APC’s in Kramatorsk to stop the column were the Russian Special Spetnaz Old Ladies Brigade??

C’mon dude. ..
The facts on the ground aren’t matching the shrillness of your propaganda.


24 posted on 04/16/2014 9:17:01 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: tcrlaf

Where those old ladies who assaulted that armory and other strategic targets last weekend? No. There was no “unrest” in this area until the Russian Army commandos arrived.


25 posted on 04/16/2014 9:24:09 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: Uncle Miltie

I am opposed to any money or lives being spent here. It is none of our business. The McCain crazies are so incensed about a border 6,000 miles from here but do nothing about the invasion of our border out of the south!!


26 posted on 04/16/2014 9:39:58 AM PDT by SADMILLIE
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To: jimbo123
"In a sign of apparent desperation in Kiev before the defense ministry released its statement, Serhiy Sobolev, the head of a parliamentary faction, claimed the men riding the vehicles into Slovyansk were actually double-agents trying to trick pro-Russian forces into letting them into the heart of the seized territory."

Interesting.

Those were double agents who weren't double agents. But the weren't really double agents because they're now Russians operatives. Which pretty much means that any Ukrainian who doesn't agree with the government is labeled a Russian operative by the government.

I don't think the people "in charge" in the Ukraine have any idea what's going on and are just spouting what they think will get them outside sympathy and aide so they can stay in power. Next they'll be blaming the failure of their "anti-terrorist" fiasco on turncoat officers who swayed their poor, feeble minded, troops.

They sound like they're using the exact same script the MB used in Egypt when the people finally turned against them. Just substitute "Russia" for "Israel" and "Communist" for "Zionist" and the MB news releases are almost exactly like what the EU/US backed MB were spewing when Egyptians wouldn't put up with them any more.

There was no leader with enough support to keep mobs from throwing out the government rather than waiting a few months for elections but now we're supposed to believe that the real problem is that the opponents of the current "leadership" won't wait on elections?

The people who the mob threw out were imposing their will by force and now the real problem is that the new guys can't impose their will by force because the troops desert?

They changed the rules of the game, overthrew the government rather than waiting on the elections, and now they want everyone who disagrees with them to play by the old rules as if there were no overthrow of the government?

Please, in for a penny, in for a pound, they made their own bed now let them lie in it.

27 posted on 04/16/2014 10:00:03 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: The_Reader_David
I think we can conclude we haven't a clue what was going on...

Except that Obama's long history of indifference, weakness and ineptitude continues to make the world a more dangerous place for everyone.
28 posted on 04/16/2014 10:11:28 AM PDT by keat
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To: jimbo123
Confirmed:

Defense Ministry confirms pro-Russian separatists have captured Ukrainian armored vehicles

4:28 p.m. -- The Ukrainian Defense Ministry has confirmed that "Russian saboteurs" have captured six Ukrainian armed vehicles in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kramatorsk.

The ministry says that local residents of Kramatorsk blocked the armored vehicles on the morning of April 16. "As a result of the blocking, extremists seized the vehicles and the column [of armored vehicles] headed towards Sloviansk," said the Defense Ministry's statement.

The vehicles are currently in Sloviansk. The ministry says that the men controlling them are "not related to the Armed Forces of Ukraine."

Whether Ukrainian troops initially driving the armored vehicles switched sides and joined the pro-Russian separatists remains unclear. -- Isaac Webb


29 posted on 04/16/2014 11:57:20 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: jimbo123
So that means you DON’T want the Ukrainian people to vote for their own regional governors? You want them all to be appointed by Oleh Tyahnybok or Dmytro Yarosh? How is that going to help Ukraine?

Didn't Putin ban the election of Russia's governors? If it's good enough for Russia...

30 posted on 04/16/2014 12:02:08 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei

The Ukranians have to demonstrate that they have the will to defend themselves. If they’re not willing to fight for their own country then their pleas for Western assistance are going to fall on deaf ears. I’m sure they’re concerned about another Hungary or Czechoslovaki but they have to take that chance. The alternative is an eventual Russian annexation of half the country without a fight.


31 posted on 04/16/2014 12:55:03 PM PDT by littleharbour
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To: jimbo123

Western Ukraine?

Don’t you mean Eastern Poland? :^)


32 posted on 04/16/2014 3:38:23 PM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: tcrlaf

So we should be happy they are going to have an election in Kiev?

Didn’t they have an election last time?

What happens if they don’t like the result this time either?

Will it be ok (again) to build barricades and take over government buildings? Aren’t we being told its wrong in East Ukraine but was ok in West Ukraine?

I guess its easier to scream Putinista than to explain the hypocrisy.


33 posted on 04/16/2014 4:59:01 PM PDT by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: jimbo123
You r-e-a-l-l-y summed this up very very well.... If people grasp the Kiev Gov. wants to retain their power, yet knowing the May election is around the corner, they will do whatever is necessary to maintain their power and continue to consolidate their power within the Gov. It was quite something when they announced they would NOT be going further with the EU rather retain Ukraine as an Independant nation governing itself. But by doing so they alienated the Russian citizenery who sees the Kiev Gov. for exactly what it is, knowing they would be sidelined and fully excluded from any political representation.

This is what happened to a Russian Representative in the Kiev Parliment recently when he attempted to explain the citizens concern of how the people were being treated.

Free and Fair elections! ROTFL.....They can't even control their parliment let alone govern and control the citizen in the street!.......... This week the Party of Regions Presidential candidate got slammed with thrown items, inked and floured by Maiden's thugs....This is why there will not be fair and effective elections...nor fair representation of the citizens.....and also why the Russians are claiming they want to completely disengage with the Kiev Government and be on their own in the cities they have attempted to take control of.

This is what occurs when a Representative of the Ukraine Gov. speaks in Russian and/or attempts to support the Russian population In kiev. ...


34 posted on 04/16/2014 5:04:52 PM PDT by caww
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To: SADMILLIE

You said it. We have no dog in the fight over who is coming and going over Ukraine’s borders. If the EU wants to go to war over Ukraine’s sovereignty, they can lead the way!


35 posted on 04/16/2014 6:41:47 PM PDT by BradyLS (DO NOT FEED THE BEARS!)
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To: jimbo123
As Ukraine tension flares, Russia test-fires ballistic missile
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3129501/posts

Kiev agitators ‘trained in Poland’ claims Putin
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3129486/posts

N.Korea Fires Multiple Launch Rockets
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/3129517/posts

S. Korean Lawmaker, “Russia might have given N. Korea know-how of miniature nukes”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1717327/posts

WikiLeaks: North Korea Shipped 19 Advanced Nuclear-Capable Missiles to Tehran
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2634540/posts

North Korea Tests 'Super-EMP' Nuke
Newsmax ^ | Thursday, 16 Jun 2011 09:05 AM | Ken Timmerman
"North Korea’s nuclear tests have been dismissed as failures by some analysts because of their low explosive yield. But Dr. Pry believes they bore the “signature” of the Russian-designed “super-EMP” weapon, capable of emitting more gamma radiation than a 25-megaton nuclear weapon. "

Russia engages in 'gangland' diplomacy as it sends warship to the Caribbean (Exercise with Venezuelan military, 2008)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2088262/posts
(from 2006)

Russia to build 2 Kalashnikov factories in Venezuela by 2010
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070806/70445720.html

Why Russia should sell weapons to Iran and Syria
RIA Novosti (Russian state-owned outlet) ^ | 08AUG07 |
Marianna Belenkaya, Russian Government
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1878354/posts

Russia to set up missile shield for Iran
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1944948/posts

Russia calls for banning Judaism
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1431407/posts

Russia probing whether Jewish law constitutes incitement ["first time since Stalin's regime"]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1431367/posts

Putin: 'Israel's nuclear weapons just make it a target'
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3068835/posts

Russians Respect Reason For Terrorism
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210347/posts

Vladimir Putin Justifies His Trust in Islam Karimov (Uzbekistan)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1433668/posts">

Vladimir Putin's comments on American exceptionalism, Syria cause a fuss
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3065888/posts

Pat Buchanan: People worldwide ‘are sick of hearing’ talk of American exceptionalism
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3067234/posts

Pat Buchanan Defends Hitler's Invasion of Poland
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2019486/posts

Ted Turner: U.S. and Israel Should Disarm to Prevent Nuclear Iran
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2879724/posts

Putin: Russia Building Nuclear Weapon U.S. Won't Have
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1282021/posts

Russia says new Topol RS-12 mobile ICBM can evade U.S. missile defense
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1513904/posts

Georgia Seeks U.N. Security Council Session About Missile
NY Times ^ | August 9, 2007 | C. J. CHIVERS
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1878501/posts
Excerpt:
"No one was injured by the missile, which struck on Monday evening near Tsitelubani, a village about 30 miles from Tbilisi, the Georgian capital. The missile broke apart on impact, but did not explode. The Georgian military later detonated the missile."

China and Russia Call for U.S. Withdrawal in Central Asia
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1437131/posts

US TOLD TO LEAVE CENTRAL ASIA [Russia & China demand "deadline."]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1437369/posts

''Intelligence Brief: Russia's Moves in Syria''
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1658282/posts
(from 2006)

The Syrian Stake (Ruskie Alert)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1658558/posts
(from 2006)

The Secret American Subculture Of Putin-Worshippers
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3070183/posts

Putin Adviser Urges Dumping US Bonds In Reaction to Sanctions
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3129485/posts
[Western traitors told to cram their bonds.]


36 posted on 04/16/2014 6:59:48 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Uncle Miltie

Let me inject a bit of reality here.
There is a large and mostly docile Ukrainian population who are largely indifferent to both Russia and EU. Their idea is that Ukrainian government has to work on stable relations with both for the nation to benefit.
There are also two quite a small distinctive groups of moderate liberals and socialists who are leaning towards Europe or Russia respectively, mostly misunderstanding both. European-leaning thinks that Europe is still a Heaven of Freedom the way US was before Great Society. Russian-leaning are generally leftists, who aren’t realize that Russia is not a communist country anymore.
Both groups has a very tiny cores of radical fanatics who are commies or nazis respectively and hatred is deep between them.
The majority of population dislikes both radical groups and distrusts both EU and Russia.
On the other hand Eastern Ukrainians fear the Nazis more than they dislike commies, and they see Russia as a better alternative (to the point of becoming a state of Russia for more protection) because they suspect EU behind the Nazis.
In Western Ukraine situation is directly opposite.
Both Russia and EU are doing their best to throw more crap at this fan.
That is what makes Ukraine so messed up.


37 posted on 04/16/2014 9:24:37 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix

I believe all that.

Which make Putin’s invasions so wrong.


38 posted on 04/17/2014 6:17:18 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Mohammed was a Child Rapist and Islam is a Totalitarian Death Cult.)
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To: Uncle Miltie

Sure, just like meddling by Obama and EU.


39 posted on 04/17/2014 6:35:22 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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