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Cliven Bundy, who is well into his seventies, did not articulate himself very well, and was wrong about the comparison to slavery. But he made it clear up front that he did not advocate for any return to it, or going back in history.

In addition, the question about minorities in this country being better off under dependancy and welfare when compared to the American free market and free enterprise is one that needs to be raised...over and over ahgain.

1 posted on 04/25/2014 10:12:08 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Jim Robinson; DollyCali; joanie-f; Dukie; Squantos; JohnHuang2; RobFromGa; k.trujillo; ...

FYI...my thoughts.


2 posted on 04/25/2014 10:12:29 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Jeff Head

I saw even his edited comments as being statements of pity rather than hate.


3 posted on 04/25/2014 10:14:13 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Jeff Head

Badly worded perhaps, but he didn’t say anything that might be considered hateful. He made it far too easy, however, for liberals to take what he said of context and claim it is. This is something they can and do sink their teeth into and divert attention from the real issue. They are 100% behind the iron boot of government stepping all over the rights of citizens to live in this country freely. Freedom to them means freedom of government, not the people.


5 posted on 04/25/2014 10:18:46 AM PDT by Telepathic Intruder (The only thing the Left has learned from the failures of socialism is not to call it that)
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To: Jeff Head

The race baiter’s, pimps and other assorted RAT’s and trouble makers are working this as fast and as hard as they can.


6 posted on 04/25/2014 10:19:03 AM PDT by mongo141 (Revolution ver. 2.0, just a matter of when, not a matter of if!)
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To: Jeff Head

The man attempted a rhetorical point and expressed it poorly. He has worked for a living, often in isolation probably. He is not a rhetorician or historian or lawyer.

This is a game of ‘gotcha’, and utterly ignores the FACT that paramilitary oppression and curtailment of free speech to little corrals WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ANYMORE.


7 posted on 04/25/2014 10:19:26 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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To: Jeff Head
It doesn't matter what Mr Bundy tried to say, the media/left will put the most negative spin on his comments.

I'm not saying he was right or wrong. I'm just saying the left will try to use it to their advantage. It's what they do.

9 posted on 04/25/2014 10:21:15 AM PDT by Know et al (No one has ever choked to death on a raw oyster.)
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To: Jeff Head

You can quote facts and figures all day long, and it just won’t matter.

The majority low-info’s only know what the TV and Twitter tell them, and as of a minute ago, BOTH CNN and MSNBC were talking, again, about Bundy’s “racism”.

Truth doesn’t matter. Context doesn’t matter. All that matters is that the meme is now set, and it is being pimped extensively by all the usual suspects, even on this morning’s network news shows.

This is the cost we have to now pay, for losing control of the media.


10 posted on 04/25/2014 10:22:13 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Jeff Head

I don’t believe he was trying to say that blacks were better off under slavery by any stretch of the imagination. Just that being trapped within the welfare system with little chance of escape is not much better.


11 posted on 04/25/2014 10:22:21 AM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Jeff Head
Sincerely hate to consume bandwidth with a post I've flung out there before when this race/slave debate reraises its ugly head, but here goes.

Reparations for slavery?

When a black woman is one of the richest people in America?

When a black man was Secretary of State??

When a black woman was Secretary of State?

When black men have sat -- and do sit -- on the Supreme Court??

When a black would-be despot sits in the White House?????

When countless black men have risen to the top of the ranks of the richest in professional sports and show business?? Men like Hank Aaron. Men like Bill Cosby who... (Never mind. As we all know, Bill's either an Uncle Tom or Oreo Cookie, depending on which black race pimp you listen to.)

And, how about Liberation Theology?

Liberation from WHAT? The chance to achieve and succeed??

Give me a break!!

Let me make it clear right up front: I am NOT a racist. I supported Herman Cain in his run for the Senate and supported him in his run for the WH. And if Allen West goes for it, he, too, has my support.

I also consider Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams two of the finest economists and minds extant today. In case you don’t know them, both are black.

Sowell, Williams and Cain – among others -- have spoken out against those fellow blacks who castigate and vilify America for a slavery now long in our past. And ALL thinking men and women oppose the periodic calls for reparations. (When he ran, I supported Alan Keyes. I even spoke in his stead on the RTKABA at a Capitol rally and was asked to fill in for him on his radio show at the time. Sadly, while I still consider Alan a good man, I have had to rethink my support since he came out FOR reparations.)

The fact is that the modern descendants of slaves brought here in chains in admittedly miserable, soul-gutting conditions now calling for reparations need to remember something:

They should not only be glad to be in America, they should be glad to be ANYWHERE!

Had their ancestors NOT been brought OUT of Africa – many by Muslim slave raiders --the blood of those ancestors would have run into the earth over there several centuries ago, victims of the OTHER black tribes that captured them in one of the interminable tribal conflicts STILL ravaging that sad continent and these modern day would-be "plaintiffs" would not even exist.

And I would remind you that slavery is STILL practiced in parts of Africa (mainly by – American BLACK muslims LISTEN UP!! -- MUSLIMS) and Asia today. How ironic that disgruntled American blacks are embracing a system that participated mightily in their initial bondage – and would, if Islam takes root here, probably put any who cling to their Christianity back INTO BONDAGE – or to the sword. In fact, as the majority of muslims consider black folks as “sub-human”, many of you black muzzies will get the axe.

95% of the African slaves who were transported across the Atlantic went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions, and that less than 5% of the slaves who crossed the Atlantic went to the United States, it was remarkable that the vast majority of academic research, films, books and articles concerning the slave trade concentrated only on the American involvement, as though slavery was a uniquely American aberration.

And should the great-great-great grandchildren of SLAVE OWNING BLACKS also be subject to PAYING these reparations? If so, how do we find THEM?

And I have traced MY family back to the SLAVS. Although the term looks to be related to “slave,” depending on your source, it either means “glory” or “worshipper.” But my family research indicates that many of my of my ancestors LIVED lives of virtual slavery to some despot or other. Do I qualify for reparations? From whom?? And it begs a question: Are most of us now living here headed into a modern form off that servitude? But that’s a topic for another discussion.

The official US Census of 1830 lists 3,775 free blacks who owned 12,740 black slaves. Furthermore, the story outlines the history of slavery here, and the first slave owner, the Father of American slavery, was Mr Anthony Johnson, of Northampton, Virginia. His slave was John Casor, the first slave for life. Both were black Africans. The story is very readable, and outlines cases of free black women owning their husbands, free black parents selling their children into slavery to white owners, and absentee free black slave owners, who leased their slaves to plantation owners. -"Selling Poor Steven", American Heritage Magazine, Feb/Mar 1993 (Vol. 441) p 90

Of course, a full telling of Black History would not be complete without a recitation of the origin of slavery in the Virginia colony: Virginia, Guide to The Old Dominion, WPA Writers' Program, Oxford University Press, NY, 1940, p. 378

A few more salient points on the subject:

Until the US declared independence, the Colonies were REQUIRED by the King of England to embrace slavery.

The Northwest Ordinance (1789) prohibited slavery in federal territories.

A law prohibiting the importation of slaves into the US became effective in 1808.

Beginning in 1820, the Democratic Congress started passing laws allowing and encouraging slavery.

It was only after the Republican Party (many of whom were southern Blacks) was formed some 40 years later that the anti-slavery movement was able to move forward.

And the holier-than-thou Northern liberals are strangely silent on recent archeological evidence from NEW YORK CITY clearly tracing the financing of the slave trade to NORTHERN BUSINESSMEN!!

At the height of his remarkable boxing career, Muhammad Ali (born Cassius Clay), once declared, “I’m glad my great-grandpa got on that boat.”

And speaking of ancestors, my paternal grandmother’s daddy joined with the 80th Ohio Volunteer Infantry early in the War Between the States (re-upped twice) and fought on the Union side at Chickamauga, Vicksburg, Jackson then joined up with Sherman for that infamous march to the sea through Georgia. My wife’s great-great grandpappy ALSO fought for the Union. While I revere the memory of my ancestors, inasmuch as that conflict was less about slavery than it was the economic exploitation and abuse of the South by the North, I fear they MAY have been on the wrong side.

Author Robert Hitt Neill tells of attending a Tennessee Mountain Writer’s Conference years ago with several other authors. Among them was Alex Hailey, celebrated author of “Roots.” Watching a TV news show, a group of them watched a demonstration in a Southern state against the “Rebel” flag incorporated into that state’s flag. The very next report covered a famine in Africa. Graphic images showed dead bodies, starving children with distended tummies and runny noses and dying people covered with flies, too weak to brush them away.

Mr. Hailey intoned in a low, serious voice, “Every time an American black sees a story like that, they should find a Confederate flag and kiss it.” He then pointed to the TV screen and continued, “Because these would be me and my descendants, except for American slavery. I thank God that my family and I are here instead of there.”

Next problem!

Dick Bachert

AFTERWORD:

A few additional facts on the subject:

Until the US declared independence, we were required by the King of England to embrace slavery.

The Northwest Ordinance (1789) prohibited slavery in federal territories.

A law prohibiting the importation of slaves into the US became effective in 1808.

Beginning in 1820, the Democratic Congress started passing laws allowing and encouraging slavery.

It was only after the Republican Party (many of whom were southern Blacks) was formed some 40 years later that the anti-slavery movement was able to move forward.

12 posted on 04/25/2014 10:24:01 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (Ignorance is NOT BLISS. It is the ROAD TO SERFDOM! We're on a ROAD TRIP!!)
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To: Jeff Head

There you go being reasonable again.

;-)

Please add me to your ping list!


13 posted on 04/25/2014 10:24:38 AM PDT by pax_et_bonum (Never Forget the Seals of Extortion 17 - and God Bless America)
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To: Jeff Head
“while phrased completely inappropriately”

I think he phrased it perfectly.

People that have joined the politically correct are sub human!!

14 posted on 04/25/2014 10:26:28 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: Jeff Head
So Bundy was speaking off the cuff, he does not have a speechwriter or a teleprompter.
I hear his comment as one is favor of the black community.
He does not advocate a return to slavery, he was pondering a what-if. A thought experiment.
He is raising the perfectly legitimate question if the situation many blacks live under today is as bad, or maybe even worse, than slavery.
That question should be asked.

15 posted on 04/25/2014 10:26:57 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: Jeff Head

It’s a phony issue, and it’s been posted to death here at FRee Republic since yesterday. More postings simply keep the issue alive for the benefit of the Marxists.

Time to move on.


16 posted on 04/25/2014 10:27:09 AM PDT by abb
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To: Jeff Head

Instead of expounding upon ‘slavery,’ Bundy could have expounded on ‘Stolen SSN #042-68-4425’ which belonged to Harrison J Bounel, and now appears on Hussein’s tax returns.

I’m not sure what’s wrong w/people, when the NYTimes shows up and points a mic at them. Bundy blew the biggest MSM window I’ve seen in a while.


17 posted on 04/25/2014 10:27:38 AM PDT by LyinLibs (If victims of islam were more "islamophobic," maybe they'd still be alive.)
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To: Jeff Head

I think thats what he was attempting to say


18 posted on 04/25/2014 10:28:32 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Jeff Head

there is a comparison to slavery - how similar it is to the welfare plantation


19 posted on 04/25/2014 10:30:24 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Jeff Head
But he made it clear up front that he did not advocate for any return to it, or going back in history.

Then why did he say that perhaps blacks were better off under it? Sorry, but Bundy decided to go media hog and runn off on a tangent, shooting his mouth off on things totally unrelated to his own actions and his problems with the BLM. Why he would think that anyone would give a damn about what he thinks about blacks and Mexicans is beyond me. People can try and explain it away and justify it and say "what he really meant was..." all they want. All this is still self inflicted. He shot himself in the foot all on his own, and he has kept firing round after round into it ever since.

21 posted on 04/25/2014 10:32:14 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Jeff Head
This is an easy one. IF the MSM and the regime can convince the low intelligence voter that Bundy and his supporters are racist and/or white supremacists, their rights will be forfeited and they can be killed and their property seized at will.
I happen to think this one attempt by the NYT will fail because of the posting(s) of Mr Bundy’s full speech. But that does not mean they will give up. I suspect they will just keep trying to build on this narrative.
22 posted on 04/25/2014 10:32:57 AM PDT by Tupelo (I feel more like Philip Nolan every day)
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To: Jeff Head

This is not about race. The democrats want to make it about race because they need to mobilize the minorities to vote in the midterms. Isn’t that obvious to everyone?

Just drop the issue. Bundy needs to go away. There are people of all races living in the project houses in Las Vegas. They can’t get jobs picking cotton because the illegal aliens do it for less than the minimum wage.

Want to abolish the minimum wage? That would solve a lot of problems. Slavery is not the answer here.


24 posted on 04/25/2014 10:33:42 AM PDT by BarnacleCenturion
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To: Jeff Head
was wrong about the comparison to slavery I dunno JH. I'd argue that as bad as slavery was, the liberal/government slavery black culture finds itself chained in is worse in some respects. At the very least slaves knew they were slaves, and could yearn for freedom.
25 posted on 04/25/2014 10:35:31 AM PDT by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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