Posted on 04/30/2014 10:01:39 AM PDT by Impala64ssa
A Montana couple frustrated by recent thefts allegedly set a trap for potential burglars—and upon hearing a would-be intruder after midnight on Sunday, the husband fired four shots into the darkness, he says. Now, Markus Kaarma of Missoula has been charged in the death of German exchange student Diren Dede, 17, who was hit by bullets in the head and arm, the AP reports. The couple had set up sensors and cameras around their garage, whose door they left open; Kaarma's wife, Janelle Pflager, left her purse there "so they would take it," she said, per court documents. She reportedly told police the couple had been robbed twice in three weeks.
Documents say Kaarma, 29, told a hairstylist last Wednesday that he'd been waiting three days for another burglary, shotgun at the ready, the Washington Post reports. "I’m just waiting to shoot some [obscenity] kid," he allegedly told the stylist at Great Clips, which ended up calling police over his profane language and unruly behavior, Raw Story reports. Kaarma was yesterday charged with one count of felony deliberate homicide; it's unclear why Diren was in the garage. Billings, Mont., saw a similar shooting hours before Missoula's: A homeowner shot a seminary student described as a "house guest" who was making a call in the garage. The student is expected to survive.
IANAL, don't even play one on TV, but I'm not sure what he did is a "trap" in the sense prohibited by law. He just left his garage door open and had surveillance, which are both legal. I think in most states what's prohibited is an automatic unattended booby trap.
Even if I'm correct, he should have kept his mouth shut beforehand, because they're going to easily show that trapping was in fact the intent.
Right... Where that line is drawn in MT is at the mantrap... A automated, self-actuating device used with the intent of killing an intruder. One cannot use a rigged shotgun to protect one's front door, as an instance... That is a mantrap. But defense of self and property is given a wide berth here.
I agree. The guy was there to steal everything he could at a minimum, good shoot.
Right... Where that line is drawn in MT is at the mantrap
= = = = = = = = = = = =
Agree.....
ALSO, let me ‘admit’ I am confusing the two cases - I thought this was still in reference to the guy that sat in his basement and waited for the two kids to come down the stairs, shooting one a couple of times then executing him - then waited for his accomplice, shot her then proceeded to execute her.
I had been at ‘loggerheads’ with a couple of people since I didn’t ‘condemn’ him 1000% — I still contend he was within his rights as to the ‘original’ shot in both of the thieves...HE crossed the line when he summarily executed them.
On the 2nd crook (a teen age blond girl) I definitely would have shot her coming down the steps because I would have been ‘afraid’ she was ready to defend herself...Now whether she called to her ‘partner’ and the guy let her come ahead, different story, but definitely dragging her off to shoot her again rates the ‘needle’...IMNSHO...
That is murder THEN he admitted it to the police instead of clamming up....
If leaving your garage door open is laying a trap, half the people in Huntinton Beach must be trying to kill people.
I saw lots of open garage doors with Ferraris and Lambos in them when I was there a few years ago.
You need to lock up your cars and especially guns.
The safe most be approved by your local politburo.
Ammo must be stored separately.
Knives have their own safe.
A fence must be 6 feet high around any pool, pond,lake , or body of water more than 6” deep on your land.
Any footstep, path or trail must be illuminated at night and have handrails.
You now live in Pierce Bloomburgville.
FWIW,I’m familiar with MN deadly force statutes, not Montana’s.
609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.
The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor’s place of abode.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.065
I don’t think a reasonable person believes someone unarmed and dying in front of you is a threat of death or great bodily harm(why the jury did what they did)
If he believed that, he probably wouldn’t come as close as he had to to deliver a ‘kill shot’ under the chin.
The Minnesota homeowner shot one in the head at point blank range after they were no longer a threat and recorded himself taunting before doing so.
(Then he kept the bodies overnight before calling police.)
That was my thought as well on the MN homeowner. Once he went from defense to revenge all his preparations showed a jury premeditation. Personally I have some sympathy for the guy (I can relate to the desire for revenge after a break in) but I can easily see how the jury convicted him on murder 1.
As much as I wish MN had “Castle Doctrine” for law, we do not.
So based on that and we he did, he was screwed.
I’m going with this.
Second case where some no good THIEF somehow deserves more sympathy than the homeowner who gets tired of being robbed and does something about it.
Good shoot.
Agreed.
I would have trouble voting to convict on anything more than a mild offense, even though under the letter of the law this is probably felony murder. When the courts and official law enforcement fail to do their job, which is widespread, I am willing to give otherwise law-abiding citizens wide latitude in defending themselves and their property. Theft of property is theft of the means to live and of the time required to replace those means, which is in effect though not in law a serious threat to life.
This moron needs a whole lot of training on self-defense law, on self-defense tactics, and on quite a few other topics, but he probably would not be facing charges if he had simply chosen better words or silence before and after the shooting. In this situation and even after multiple burglaries in three weeks, the armed citizen should (1) never admit to having left bait and open doors to attract criminal thugs [perhaps they were open for pets, for fresh air, or because the homeowner forgot?], (2) never admit to anyone a desire to shoot even the most deserving burglars, (3) never shoot blindly in the dark, and (4) never shoot so poorly that the criminal survives. What’s up with that - four shotgun blasts and the thug is expected to recover?
The correct answers are to stay quiet before the fact. Then: (a) shoot, shovel, and shut up [ONLY if you are 100% certain it will not be discovered/reported, and probably not even then because your certainly under stress could be misguided], or (b) shoot, search YouTube for what to do after a self-defense shooting, and then do nothing more than a good video [such as the Masaad Ayoob http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCZXZMYyRl4 video] recommends until a criminal defense lawyer is present. A better answer would be for the police to do their job after the burglaries, but that didn’t happen. A better answer would be for the homeowner to follow the law, only shooting if required due to an immediate threat from the criminal thug who broke into his home, but that also appears not to have happened.
I hope that even those on FR sympathetic to the homeowner (and I am VERY sympathetic) would research what to do, know their local laws, and never act in a manner that would allow successful prosecution for shooting a thug who needs shooting.
So much for the BS claim espoused by some that "with a shotgun at house/garage distances, you don't need to aim" This guy needs some tactical graining from Joe 'SWAT' Biden.
Following the law is not just “a better answer.”
Without any threat to his own safety, he shot blindly into the dark.
That is criminal. He could have killed a small child who had gotten lost amd wandered in.
You’d be amazed what you can miss with a shotgun.
I know , Front Sight shotgun class was fun ;)
Yeh. Whoever claimed that has never seen me shoot a shotgun. ;-)
Never took one of those classes, but I did manage to average mid-90’s at skeet with a .410. I switched to sporting clays and some days the bird is hanging up there looking as big as a beachball and zip-nada.
Now I understand. I am required to allow serial entry to my home and allow said enterer to set conditions on the battlefield (my home) under the assumption that on one of the occasions he won’t take a liking to my wife, carve up my kid or shoot me in the head etc.(not like any of that stuff has ever happened to people)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.