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As Capital Flees, England Is Texas, and the U.S. Is California
RCM ^ | 05/08/2014 | Tom Giovanetti

Posted on 05/09/2014 6:47:25 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

When Toyota announced that it was moving its U.S. headquarters from California to Texas, some were surprised, but everyone understood why. Because of its high taxes and regulations, California ranks among the worst states in the nation in which to do business, and a move from California would have an immediate positive impact on Toyota USA's bottom line. And Toyota is only the latest.

There are certainly costs involved in moving a business, including disruptions to the lives of its employees. But the migration of businesses from antagonistic states like California and New York to business-friendly states like Texas suggests that, for many businesses, it's worth the move.

Freedom means both voice and exit. We tend to emphasize the "voice" part of freedom-democracy and participation in the political system-but exit is just as important. Free people are free to leave, and they're free to take their capital with them when they do. That's why, historically, anything that hints at restrictions on the movement of capital is a leading indicator of creeping fascism or totalitarianism.

Politicians have two choices when they see their policies driving people and capital to the exits. The wise ones learn from it and change their ways. Others, however, prefer their social vision above the freedom of the people, so they try to punish capital flight, which only hastens more people to the exits.

Because California is a state, rather than a nation, California can't impose capital or border controls. That means that, while today California still doesn't get it, eventually math will win and California will learn from the harm caused by its high tax policies.

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearmarkets.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: california; capital; england; texas

1 posted on 05/09/2014 6:47:25 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

SEE HERE:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy-policy/2014/05/07/pfizer-inversion-plan-puts-tax-code-under-microscope/

EXCERPT:

The U.S. corporate tax code has come under far more scrutiny than Pfizer in the wake of the giant drug maker’s announcement last week that it hopes to avoid billions of dollars in federal taxes by moving its legal address to London.


2 posted on 05/09/2014 6:48:23 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (If at first you don't succeed, put it out for beta test.)
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To: SeekAndFind

And California is France.


3 posted on 05/09/2014 6:49:26 AM PDT by Steely Tom (How do you feel about robbing Peter's robot?)
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To: SeekAndFind

On behalf of my fellow Texans, I say Welcome.

But. Leave your liberal leftist lifestyles back in California with your liberal leftist tax and spend policies.


4 posted on 05/09/2014 6:50:31 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: SeekAndFind

America as an entity needs to pay attention to our national revenues.

Sure within, we should not interfere.

But internationally we are being taken to the absolute cleaners.

Bring back jobs to America. Now.


5 posted on 05/09/2014 6:50:58 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: SeekAndFind
California will learn from the harm caused by its high tax policies.

No they won't. The two best things about working for the government are:

  1. You get to spend money that other people have given up part of their lives to earn, and
  2. You NEVER have to admit when you make a mistake. You just say "We didn't go far enough," and double down on the stupid policy
When was the last time you heard a politician say, "Oh that (minimum eage law, gun control, tax increase, etc.) was a mistake we need to repeal it?"
6 posted on 05/09/2014 6:54:05 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
But internationally we are being taken to the absolute cleaners.

Because of taxes and regulations. Look no further than the government for the cause of this.

7 posted on 05/09/2014 6:55:18 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I agree, bring back businesses we’ve overseas. I see the
Chinese are buying up a lot of Michigan. Good, but I’ve
read, they are also bringing in Chinese to work the business.


8 posted on 05/09/2014 6:56:25 AM PDT by tillacum
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To: SeekAndFind
The wise ones learn from it and change their ways. Others, however, prefer their social vision above the freedom of the people, so they try to punish capital flight, which only hastens more people to the exits.

I have NO confidence - zero - that the politicians in this loony bin will see the light.

The state is full of illiterate poor, newly arrived socialists and old hippies. A majority of voters are incapable of understanding basic economic behavior - their approach to the subject is similar to a pack of primates fighting over a mango tree.

And they are an apt reflection of the politicians they send to office.

We are well and truly screwed, and I guess we'll have to hit rock bottom before there can be any improvement.

9 posted on 05/09/2014 6:56:52 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: SeekAndFind

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as “bad luck.”

Robert Heinlein.


10 posted on 05/09/2014 7:01:35 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (This is known as "bad luck". - Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: from occupied ga

I am getting so tired of that old excuse.

America needs to produce things.

In America.


11 posted on 05/09/2014 7:10:18 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: skeeter

and Kalifornia-Oregone- and wishington-

May all get skrewed- when THE NEW PANAMA LOCKS
open next year- Literally BILLIONS of LOST TAX revenue
and Thousands of union Jobs -GONE !-
Something will have to give- I Know....-

Let’s go after the Software industry!-
Bill Gates
Larry Ellison
The Google Boyz
Have Not paid their Dues...


12 posted on 05/09/2014 7:12:37 AM PDT by mj1234
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To: from occupied ga
Because of taxes and regulations. Look no further than the government for the cause of this.

In a fascist state the major corporations LOVE regulations and taxes. It keeps the little upstarts out and gives them free reign to buy politicians and to exploit another countries slave labor. Yes, Nazi Germany was like that in the 1930's and 40's. How much different is the USA from that?

13 posted on 05/09/2014 7:14:49 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
I am getting so tired of that old excuse.

Really? Then you must think all of the government taxation and regulation that is killing business in the country is a good thing.

14 posted on 05/09/2014 7:33:59 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga

Sadly you are right on California is populated with some very arrogant people who consider themselves to be superior. The problem is sooner or later the call for the rest of us to bail them out will happen. If we had not regained control of the House Detroit and Chicago would have already been bailed out and the unions rewarded for bankrupting them. Obama is funneling money to them right now through diversionary tactics. I don’t see Californians changing in the near future.


15 posted on 05/09/2014 7:35:51 AM PDT by ontap
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To: from occupied ga

All I am saying is that the world is changing quite a bit.

America needs to return the focus to American jobs, and to American jobs.

We have for an entire generation been building up a country which is now on the verge of PASSING us in productivity: China.

We need to stop building up our number one competitor.

Bring back American jobs. Bring back American production.

We need to focus on our very own nation.

Bring back American jobs.


16 posted on 05/09/2014 7:37:06 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: SeekAndFind

Pfizer should go to Puerto Rico.


17 posted on 05/09/2014 7:37:16 AM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: Vince Ferrer

RE: Pfizer should go to Puerto Rico.

And what business advantage is there for Pfizer?


18 posted on 05/09/2014 7:48:09 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (If at first you don't succeed, put it out for beta test.)
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To: SeekAndFind

‘That means that, while today California still doesn’t get it, eventually math will win and California will learn from the harm caused by its high tax policies.’

No they won’t. Collectivists believe that since their economic model is perfect, it never needs correcting. It only needs more and more of the model. And more and more.


19 posted on 05/09/2014 8:52:13 AM PDT by lurk
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

You are America. Feel free to ignore the excuse of FedGov and start producing.

Do you advocate dragging the corporations back here?

Do you advocate making it illegal to leave the US corporately?

Bottom line, most expat businesses were DRIVEN from the US by taxes and regualtions.

Corporations must return to producing here willingly. That means a change in business climate. That means a change in the socialist behavior of FedGov.

But, if that is just an excuse, show us how it is done.


20 posted on 05/09/2014 8:59:28 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I used to work right next to this Toyota plant.

It’s not just the Toyota plant that will shut down but all the peripheral business around it — restaurants, cafes, shopping, etc. that surrounded Toyota and depended on Toyota employees for THEIR business.

The media and pols are busy explaining it away, as usual without looking at THEIR policies that caused this - and MANY other businesses to leave this sinking ship.

My brother owns a business and has been approached by representatives from Idaho, Arizona and Texas. He said he’d go but he’s near retirement and wants to sell the business and stay in California.


21 posted on 05/09/2014 9:03:57 AM PDT by Bon of Babble (The dogs bark; the caravan moves on!)
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To: RoadGumby

I currently have a job. I work at a large corporation.

It is quite large.

However for the last 10 years, the corporation has not been hiring in North America. We have in fact, been laying off hundreds here. Perhaps even more than that.

We still have quite a presence here, but always now, the tendency is toward ever more globalization.

Always. Hire in foreign countries.

I am perhaps biased as a result, but we need to hire here in America.

We have outsourced quite enough.

Bring back American jobs.


22 posted on 05/09/2014 9:05:30 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: Bon of Babble

stay in Kalipornia? egads


23 posted on 05/09/2014 9:06:09 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

And so, WHY is that hiring and job shift out of America occurring?

Use a little bit of critical thinking / root cause analysis.

Once the reasons become obvious, what others have been trying to tell you may sound less like an excuse.


24 posted on 05/09/2014 9:13:47 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: GeronL

yeah, it’s getting harder and harder to stay in this Communist hell as a producer. Latest thing is they want to turn all of our freeways into toll lanes but “only if the people want.” Yeah, right.

We have elderly relatives here. They’ll never leave.


25 posted on 05/09/2014 9:14:15 AM PDT by Bon of Babble (The dogs bark; the caravan moves on!)
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To: RoadGumby

I’m just saying I’m getting much less understanding about the reasons businesses of various kinds are abandoning America.

We need jobs.

America needs jobs. Government may need to get involved, I do not want government to get involved but I do not want our jobs to vanish either.

Something needs to change now.


26 posted on 05/09/2014 9:18:06 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

We are in the shape we are in BECAUSE govt got involved. Thats no excuse, that is fact.

America does need jobs, good productive, technical, manufacturing jobs. Too bad we have been so busy driving them away. Driving them. AWAY.

What needs to change is for the citizenry of this once free country to WAKE up and remember freedom. But that wont happen. We also need to repent, and that before God, of the evil that is prevalent in this nation. Not holding my breath for that either.

Jobs are needed. But the lack and continuing decline of jobs is not the problem. Rather it is a largely visible symptom of a deeper problem that is cancerously eating this country.


27 posted on 05/09/2014 9:27:45 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: RoadGumby

We fundamentally disagree on this issue.

I fundamentally it appears, disagree with the GOP, the democrats and everyone in power in our country, in fact.

Everyone is sending Americans industry to China.

America needs to stand up, bring back our own companies, and rehire Americans.

One or the other party will eventually pick up this agenda.

Or else a new party will form. I believe increasingly, the GOP and the democrats are both too in bed with those who have sold our industry to China.

So I believe the Tea Party needs to stand up now, and replace the GOP.

Bring back American jobs.


28 posted on 05/09/2014 9:33:06 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Cringing Negativism Network said: "Bring back American jobs."

If a job was being done here for $200 per day and is now being done in China or India for $20 per day, what possible mechanism would cause that job to return to the U.S.?

What you are calling "American jobs" are now Chinese jobs or Indian jobs. There is nothing there to have returned.

The really sobering thing is that this process has not nearly run its course. American innovation, productivity, efficiency, and quality will protect some of our economy from suffering a severe lowering of the standard of living. But it won't be nearly enough to even slow the process, let alone reverse it.

I see a very rocky future for our grandchildren.

29 posted on 05/09/2014 11:11:02 AM PDT by William Tell
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Cringing Negativism Network said: "America needs jobs. Government may need to get involved, I do not want government to get involved but I do not want our jobs to vanish either."

I think I see your problem right there.

Other than as a motivator, of what economic significance is the fact that "America needs jobs"?

Do you expect the shareholders of American corporations to consider your "need" in making their decisions? Why would they?

You remind me of people I talked to years ago who were confused by the difference between "the cost of living" and "the cost of labor".

Americans want, or "need", a high cost of living. They want cheap electricity, free highways, college for all, and free cell phones.

Unfortunately, "the cost of labor" is such that corporations needn't be concerned with such "needs" because such needs don't exist in many foreign markets.

Passing laws to restrict corporations from seeking the lowest effective cost of labor will not have the effect you are seeking. It will merely cause the economic opportunity facing such corporations to be transferred to corporations outside the country who face no such restrictions.

Just as an example, consider that there are no longer any corporations manufacturing televisions in the U.S. Do you expect Samsung to move jobs to the U.S.? Why would they?

30 posted on 05/09/2014 11:44:13 AM PDT by William Tell
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

You may disagree all you wish. That will not change the fact. Business has been DRIVEN from this country. By FedGov.


31 posted on 05/09/2014 12:40:37 PM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

You mean bring back capital.


32 posted on 05/10/2014 7:11:17 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets

I read a recent study that put the true percentage of actual entrepreneurs in America at about 1-2% of the population. Given that small figure wouldn’t you expect their incomes to reflect their risk level versus people who’d rather have the “security” of employment?


33 posted on 05/10/2014 7:13:06 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

It’s an oldie, but a baddie. Governments from the beginning of history have taxed and regulated themselves into poverty. It’s true.


34 posted on 05/10/2014 7:21:00 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: William Tell

You’re spot on. Think about the role government plays in keeping prices high. RE should have deflated, but government reflated it in all sorts of ways. So now home owners have been “bailed out” with low mortgages, yet they still have high principle. They’re geographically trapped. It’s nuts. Government spending couldn’t deflate and so you have the anti-free market response of lowered housing values, but rising property taxes. Those pensions must be paid.


35 posted on 05/11/2014 6:48:07 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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