Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Whiny Polish MP Wants to Keep my Murdered Grandfather's Property
The Jewish Independent ^ | May 18, 2014 | Yori Yanover

Posted on 05/18/2014 1:42:51 PM PDT by Tzvi INN.com

Slawomir Kopycinski is not the exception in Poland, he’s the rule. And we should not tell any more lies about it.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Germany; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: jewish; poland; property; soviet

1 posted on 05/18/2014 1:42:51 PM PDT by Tzvi INN.com
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Tzvi INN.com
“the fourth partition of Poland,”

Either there's a mistranslation somewhere, or the guy doesn't know his own history.

There were three partitions of Poland in the 18th century, and the Nazis and Soviets split it up again in 1939.

Which would seem to make the process he was complaining about the 5th.

2 posted on 05/18/2014 1:48:35 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tzvi INN.com
Not to get in the middle of this, but from a purely rhetorical POV it's best not to start out with the word "whiny" when you write a highly emotional piece like this.

FWIW: Jewish Press Fires Online Editor Yori Yanover for Criticizing Ultra-Orthodox Anti-Draft Rally

3 posted on 05/18/2014 1:49:36 PM PDT by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tzvi INN.com
OK, interesting article.

Doesn't give much background, but apparently some Polish pol doesn't want to give back some property to the heirs of those the Nazis stole it from back in the day.

Since this theft took place 75 years ago, all the actual participants are dead.

I don't know how Kopycinski came into possession of this property, but it would likely be an injustice for it to be taken from him and returned to the heirs of the original owners. It is unlikely he had anything to do personally with the original property, and may in fact have acquired it in perfectly good faith. Quite possibly with no awareness of is history.

The answer, of course, is for the government to compensate either the heirs of the original owners or Mr. Kopycinski. Possibly some or all of this money should come from the descendants of the states responsible for the original theft and murder, the Germans or Russians.

I found the general tone of the article more than a little disturbing.

I mean, listen to this bastard, Kopycinski, he’s actually complaining about giving back property his family and his neighbors have stolen almost 70 years ago.

The author provides no evidence that Kopycinski, his family or his neighbors were personally involved in the theft of this property. Apparently they are to be standins for all Poles, who must suffer now because some other Poles in the past did bad things.

You'd think a Jew would have the common sense to reject this POV, as it was the one used for centuries to target Jews.

If we apply this principle comprehensively, a whole bunch of Americans are going to have to give the land they live on back to the Indians. Possibly all of us.

4 posted on 05/18/2014 1:58:58 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

“You’d think a Jew would have the common sense to reject this POV, as it was the one used for centuries to target Jews.”

What percentage of the American Jewish population voted for Obama?

Heck one I know even rationalized Soros helping the Nazi’s killing other Jews in WWII, as “he did what he had to do”.


5 posted on 05/18/2014 2:04:48 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
Years ago, even the some what conservative Boston Glob columnist Jeff Jacoby had the same complaint, albeit, in what was Czechoslovakia.

I'm sure he made the day of people that owned the property. I wonder how title insurance is/was handled in post-war Europe?

Well, the US is still paying for slavery in only half the states from 150 years ago.

6 posted on 05/18/2014 2:15:31 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Calvin Locke

If the Poles, or the Germans, of today can be blamed and personally punished for the murders and thefts committed 75 years ago, then it is merely an extension of the same principle to blame and punish the Jews for the killing of Christ 2000 years ago.

(Leaving aside some of the valid questions about which group or groups were personally responsible for the murder of Jesus.)


7 posted on 05/18/2014 2:27:56 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Tzvi INN.com

Send the bill to Germany and Russia, they started it.


8 posted on 05/18/2014 2:29:05 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

Agree. And there are some innocent ethnic Germans from parts of Eastern Europe who could be making the same claims, but don’t, even though they grew up in camps.


9 posted on 05/18/2014 2:49:52 PM PDT by OldNewYork
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: OldNewYork

The author could have at least recognized that as many or more Polish Christians were murdered by the Nazis as Polish Jews.


10 posted on 05/18/2014 3:13:31 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

Good point. And, coincidentally, I was just reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Kowalski_(priest)


11 posted on 05/18/2014 3:15:13 PM PDT by OldNewYork
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

So? My family had land before the Russian Revolution. Some of that was on natural gas fields now. We never thought that we had any claim on it because we didn’t go through the intervening 75 years of Hell.


12 posted on 05/18/2014 3:16:16 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: OldNewYork

Not to take anything away from Kowalski, but the author of this piece is quite correct that many Poles did participate in betrayal of their Jewish compatriots and even in their murder, often with great enthusiasm.


13 posted on 05/18/2014 3:21:19 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

I don’t doubt it. Not everyone was innocent. But, acknowledging that, treating everyone as guilty, including people not yet even born, isn’t right either.


14 posted on 05/18/2014 3:24:36 PM PDT by OldNewYork
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: OldNewYork

Absolutely.

Any large group of people will have those who behave under great stress with heroism and others with cowardice or villainy.


15 posted on 05/18/2014 3:29:43 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

When Franco won the civil war in Spain in 1939, he declared all property titles issued after July 18, 1936 (the start of the war - and wealth re-distirbution by the Reds) null and void. Easy enough (since much less time had elapsed).


16 posted on 05/18/2014 3:57:18 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

If you buy stolen goods, if it can be proven,
you DON’T get to keep it weather you knew or not.
At least not here.


17 posted on 05/18/2014 4:01:55 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: tet68

How far back does that principle go?

The USA violated just about every treaty it ever signed with the Indians. Do they get the land back?


18 posted on 05/18/2014 4:04:03 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Tzvi INN.com; Sherman Logan
The author seems more like a mental patient than a journalist.

I'll guess that he would not be as enthusiastic an advocate of returning Brooklyn to the descendants of its native inhabitants.

He seems ignorant of history in general.

If foreign invaders (Wehrmacht) steal property and then another set of foreign invaders (Red Army) take it from them, and then the new foreign proprietors forcibly resettle new inabitants where the old ones used to live, and the old inhabitants have either been murdered or have fled to safety, and the property was then abandoned 60 years later by the invaders leaving the property to maybe a third or fourth generation of new inhabitants, what do you do?

Turn the new people out in the street, apparently, and call them murderers.

How about this, instead: let the Russians and Germans pay reparations for what they stole and destroyed to the descendants of the original injured parties.

Is the author going to move to the property and take up residence among people whom he hates in a land he clearly despises?

Hardly. What he wants is the value of his inheritance.

Germany is paying substantial reparations, perhaps "The New Russia" should use its oil wealth to pay some of its own historical debts.

What the author clearly wants is to rip open old wounds and commit new injustices because he is a nasty person who enjoys conflict and bitterness.

19 posted on 05/18/2014 4:28:03 PM PDT by wideawake
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wideawake

I agree. Well put.

If you go back far enough, every single property in the world changed hands, usually many, many times, by conquest.

Which of those conquests do we decide is valid, and date legal title from, with all subsequent transfers “illegal?”


20 posted on 05/18/2014 4:41:45 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Tzvi INN.com
Oh boy. here it goes again :))

"There’s an enormous cover-up being perpetrated in the world about how the Poles were forced by the bad Germans to give up their Jewish neighbors. How any Polish person who hid a Jew was subject to the death penalty himself. And while these facts were true, they don’t do much to erase our own racial memory of the glee and blood thirst with which the majority of Poles handed over their Jewish neighbors."

Priceless :))

"My family owned a large apartment building on Novolipje Street in Warsaw. We also owned a large home and a store in a town outside Lodz called Brzeziny. Since the nazis were very efficient about murdering my entire family, and the Polish governments since 1945 have not seen fit to give the stolen property back to my father, we didn’t have much hope to ever see it back."

"Polish governments" after WW2 nationalized that property just like nearly anything else. Polish governments after 89 have no clue If the owners or their direct heirs are even alive today. His father, in order to get some compensation (as actual property was most likely destroyed during WW2) would have to prove his rights going through court process, just like thousands of Goys and Jews have done...I guess this guy would like to see German style compensations with billions going to "Jewish NGOs" as quite a few were demanding since years. Well, no :)))

"The Regulatory Commission for Jewish Communities is supposed to return to the rightful Jewish owners at least the property that was seized by the Communists after the war. But I don’t think this will ever happen."

The Commissions were set up to return nationalized property to religious organizations (Catholic Church, Jewish communities, Protestants etc.) and have nothing to do with individuals and their claims. Kopyciński guy is the 3rd rate far-left politician, who's been "fighting" against Catholic Commission for years, looks like now he picked up another one :)

Did you write that strange text by yourself ? You guys should better check the basic facts first and think for a while If producing such xenophobic garbage makes sense.

I'm so looking forward to hear from you soon.
21 posted on 05/18/2014 4:55:53 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
The author, next to being wrong on so many issues, is clearly nuts, reminds me of Schlussel garbage and following “cyber pogrom” 2 years ago :))
22 posted on 05/18/2014 5:02:03 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan; Tzvi INN.com; dfwgator
To follow their narrative, all of Poland was busy hiding Jews day and night. It’s just that, apparently, they weren’t very good at the hiding thing, since somehow the vast majority of the 3 million Jews who lived in Poland before the war perished in the ghettos and the death camps.

along with 3 million non-Jewish Poles.

Doesn't the guy realise that Poland was one of the few countries that had large VISIBLE Jewish communities? All the easier for the Nutzis to target? And that the largest % of people in the Yad Vashem are Polish?

The authors fails to note that Warsaw was levelled by 1945 and was basically rubble -- if he wants reparations, he should ask the Germans

it doesn't look like Kopycinski owns the property -- Nowolipki street is now even routed differently compared to pre-War. And with the intervening communist years when everyone's private property was stolen

23 posted on 05/18/2014 9:21:32 PM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan; Tzvi INN.com; dfwgator

Sherman is correct — 75 years is a different world.


24 posted on 05/18/2014 9:22:49 PM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: OldNewYork; Sherman Logan
ONY: "I don’t doubt it. Not everyone was innocent. But, acknowledging that, treating everyone as guilty, including people not yet even born, isn’t right either."

Correct -- plus Poles would point out that the Nazi rule was that any Pole harboring Jews would be shot, along with their family. That wasn't implemented in any other Nazi ruled state (not to mention that Poland, unlike France etc. never surrendered) -- so the ones that DID save Jews did so under extreme pressure not only to themselves but to their families. Despite this, many did save their Jewish fellow-countrymen

25 posted on 05/18/2014 9:25:24 PM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: kearnyirish2; Sherman Logan
In Poland's case, it's not that simple -- remember that not only did 20% of the population die during the war, but many escaped communism later and then Poland itself was moved 200 miles to the west -- Polish territory in what is now Western Belarus and Western Ukraine was taken by the USSR and Poland got the land east of the Oder-Niesse river

the property titles are utterly mixed and quite a lot destroyed as well.

26 posted on 05/18/2014 9:27:31 PM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: tet68; Sherman Logan
Tet --> it's not "buy stolen goods"

imagine this -- your granddad owns a building in 1939. Then the city itself gets destroyed. communists come and build blocks on top of the property and give it to various people. Those people are refugees from various places. Those people sell to other people etc. until 75 years pass.

It's quite a different proposition from E.Wedel

27 posted on 05/18/2014 9:29:22 PM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: tet68
"At least not here."

Howgh !


28 posted on 05/18/2014 11:25:40 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson