Posted on 06/03/2014 8:55:53 AM PDT by fishtank
Lots of Grand Canyons
by John D. Morris, Ph.D. *
On the seminar trail, I and other ICR speakers often use Grand Canyon as an example of Flood-caused geological features. We frequently run into opposition from people who’ve been taught that it took millions of years for the canyon to be carved out. We counter with studies that lead us to believe that each of the pancake-like layers was rapidly deposited by catastrophic hydraulic forces, and that the igneous and metamorphic deposits were caused by events quite unlike anything we see in modern times. The continent-wide coverage of the layers clearly speaks to an unimaginably devastating flood. The rates, scales, and intensity of the forces involved dwarf those of our experience.
The carving of Grand Canyon itself was likewise due to rapid, dynamic erosion that either occurred late during the Flood as the continents rose, or soon afterward when immense volumes of water rushed back into the ocean basins. Furthermore, the strata give evidence of having still been in a soft, not-yet-fully consolidated condition at the time they were gouged out.
Additionally, the sedimentary layers, the volcanism, and the erosion must have occurred recently—consistent with the timescale of Scripture. The evidence indicates that the strata were deposited rapidly by Flood waters, uplifted by monumental forces later in the Flood, and eroded by retreating Flood waters before they had time to harden—all within the one-year timescale given in Genesis. ICR speakers often remark that Grand Canyon is “Exhibit A” for the great Flood of Noah’s day, and photos taken during our many research trips and study tours into the canyon’s depths frequently grace our lectures.
But if the canyon’s cause was the runoff of waters from the Flood, and the deluge was worldwide, why don’t we find many such canyons around the globe? Impressive canyons sometimes form today through natural disasters such as excessive rainfall, a dam breaking, or a tsunami event, but Grand Canyon is far bigger than these. Obviously, in any set of examples, there must always be one that is the biggest, but a fuller answer may surprise you.
Grand Canyon is unique in that erosion has exposed its remarkable stack of layers on both sides of the river, and the strata are clearly visible, not covered by vegetation. Its accessibility and stunning grandeur have earned it a place among the world’s great geological wonders. The canyon’s dimensions are staggering: 277 miles long, up to 19 miles wide, and one mile deep, but it is not the biggest canyon on Earth....
more at link............
More things to consider:
Radio-isotope dating: I am not arguing decay rates. Sure they are uniform when measured under normal conditions. But we don’t have instruments to measure decay rates when these clocks are supposedly reset - extreme temperature and pressure - usually vulcanic.
Why do you think the 1980 Mt. St. Helens blind age dating tests could produce rocks over a million years old according to these tests?
Romans 3:4 ~ mean we can trust the clear and simple meaning God conveys thru scripture over each and every other source. I assure you the multiple definitions for words is a product of time and sin - when God gave us language, words had clear and simple meanings, but nowadays anybody can question the scriptures using their dictionary to introduce doubts.
Long ages and evolution has done more to shake peoples faith in God’s Word in our day. Science can never follow the scientific method when history is involved - most esp. when longer and longer historical ages are involved.
God created light before the stars sounds like an impossibility but when taken at it’s simplest it means the light is always older than the star it eminates from.
Also Einstein posited and proved gravitational time dilation. God says the Earth is the center of it all [I assume Universe here not solar system]. For me it makes sense that the center of the universe contains much more mass that the fringes which may in fact be expanding at or execeeding the speed of light.
I write code for a living. The cleanest code has clearly known assumptions, but the vast majority has to be implemented with many assumptions in place and most are not even identified as such. Science is much the same.
If the Earth is really millions or billions of years OLD then it means the original sin of Adam and Eve did not bring death and decay into [other critters and plants] the whole of creation - I assure you when God says his 6 day creation was good it means perfect, spotless, flawless ~ no death nor decay of any kind.
I’m OK with agreeing to disagree, but I’ve learned we are all on very shaky ground when anything clearly contradicts what God has said. The end times will be similar to the days before Noah entered the Ark.
Just ponder these thoughts and continue reading God’s Word. I not worried about any true believers nor the destiny but I am greatly concerned for those who currently follow and believe the father of all liars.
The discovery of very old rock within young volcanic formations is caused when the magma, on its way up, picks up already formed rock which survives without melting and reforming. Clastic rocks are quite common. The clasts picked up in the St. Helens magma flow is one example. When you look at a section of the rock, it can be obvious or, on the other hand, difficult to detect. Clastic rocks include sedimentary rocks such as conglomerate or sandstone, where the very strata is made up of rocks of varying ages.
Errors in radiometric dating can always be traced back to sampling error.
Geology is a practical science and certainly not a conspiracy to destroy religion. That’s why I say so often that it works.
Of course not.
I hold the Bible to be an authority on morals.
I do not expect the Bible to be an authority on science.
“Do not put the Lord, your God, to the test” -— Jesus said to the Devil.
That is exactly what YOU are doing when you come up with absurd literal interpretations and expect your views to prevail over logic or science.
We can not “go out and make disciples of all nations” if we promote absurd doctrine.
Opposition to evolution does not make you a good Christian or a bad Christian. The same is true of support for Evolution.
The subject is IRRELEVANT to Salvation. Completely meaningless. And yes, God laughs at us for the arguments.
My God is the God of the Universe, not just Earth. Not just our Solar System. Not just our Galaxy even.
The meaning of the word “day” is MEANINGLESS to God, Heaven and Hell and all of Creation until you tell me what Heavenly Body you are referencing. Understand?
And, I doubt that the concept of “time” has much meaning in Heaven at all.
Evolution is a lie from the devil himself.
That the Mods allow it to be posted as such reflects no credit on FR.
I think I clicked the Culture/Society button, which describes posts for:
“Discussion of health, education, welfare, drugs, abortion, environment, housing, unions, employment, social security, religion, arts, humanity, sports, and other cultural and societal issues.”
“The subject is IRRELEVANT to Salvation.”
It is relevant when BOTH kinds of creationists (old earth and new earth) are attacked by atheists. There is no good reason to ditch a faith and a conviction in a young earth.
Do you really think an atheist will love you more if you believe in an old earth?
Geology is not imho a practical science, nor a hard science, but basically a historical science which I declare is really not science at all.
The scientific methods’ basic steps require experimentation and repeatability. Your geologic science extrapolates these steps with uniformitarianism as well as assumptions. You can not know exactly which rocks had their radio-isotope clocks reset nor how much the father/daughter decompostions have progressed [whether completely or partially reset]. Basically no starting point nor an ability to accurately measure them before during and after a vulcanic event. There is way more that science does not know ~ a lot like these man-made religions. Cheers!
His [Kansas58] arguments completely fall apart from Jesus own words - Jesus affirmed the Bible and trustworthy and true.
Shame on you Kansas58,
Have You Not Read?
You might call it a descriptive science in part because you obviously cannot move the plates around to see what happens so you develop models and apply them to the observation to see how it fits. There is, however a lot of lab science to determine composition, conditions of formation and relationships. Geophysics is what you are looking at there. Astronomy has even more limitations along the same lines. There is a great deal of chemistry and physics involved. Would you call them pseudo science.
What measures do you require for hard science or practical science. What is more practical than saying “don’t build here, there is a fault” or “your ore body trends off to the south because of its structure” or “drill here, there is a high probability of oil”. You can’t slice the earth into sections so you have to reconstruct it from drill core analysis and surface trends. You can’t cheat and make things up because geology has a high degree of consistency. More than one person will see the same thing when they look at any geologic structure.
That’s not to say it isn’t complicated and mistakes aren’t made. Eventually, however, mistakes are discovered and new things discovered to explain old questions. There isn’t any cookbook to follow or reference with all the answers to all the questions. There is observation, experimentation and descriptive validation.
I was not arguing any of those points. The age of when each event happens is obviously a big puzzle with many pieces not fitting. Index fossils are a joke b/c it is circular reasoning to say the strata is x million years old because we found these life forms and then these life form fossils are x million years old b/c of the depth and type of strata they were found within. It is obvious that it is a young science b/c of so many differing opinions and claims.
Final confirmation of the age of different strata of rock finally came, following Einstein and Rutherford, with read isometric dating. However, when you see a good number of rock strata in the same orientation in which they were laid down, it is not a leap of faith to suppose the younger rocks are on the top and the relatively older rocks are on the bottom. In the last fifty years, this assumption has been proven by radiometric dating time after time.
With this dated column, fossils found only in the older rock but not the newer rock can safely be assumed to have gone extinct somewhere near the time that the last strata was formed. Sedimentary rock cannot be dated itself because it consists of eroded bits of sand, stone or silt from many different ages. Volcanism helps here as volcanic ash is formed at the time of an eruption. Rocks lying between layers of ash have been formed after one layer of ash and before the one on top. The Great Rift Valley is very active volcanically and has been for the last several million years. Therefore, we can date “Lucy” and her kin with confidence within tens of thousands of years.
Did Jesus explain what every verse meant? NO!
Did Jesus write his own concordance? NO!
And furthermore, Christians ignore large segments of the Old Testament.
We don’t give burnt offerings of animals anymore.
We are allowed to eat cloven animals, like pig meat.
We have no trouble with charging or receiving interest on our money.
There are large sections of Leviticus and other books that we routinely ignore.
I am offended by those who think a good Christian must reject evolutionary theory outright. I know it has flaws and wholes, that I why I believe God used evolution in his Creation Plan.
NEITHER side has it right.
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