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To: Fee
I have been hiring H1B for 20 years. I have never heard of this. I normally hire people who have come to America on education visas. They are in the united states before I interview them. I test every applicant. Americans rarely pass the test. An American with good technical skills usually moves above programmer very quickly. And will be six figures in no time. But I need programmers.

The test is simple. Can you query a SQL database. Can you debug a line of code. If you notice and fix the other obvious flaws in the line of code and query the database in an efficient manner we hire you. We don't care if you speak English. We need a hundred more like you.

H1B lasts 3 years and you can renew for another 3 years. At sometime in the process if you are an employee in good standing we apply for a green card. That process can take three years. All the visas cost the company over $5000. The worker has to pay something as well.

All employees are free will. We do not pay anyone but the employee. And we HAVE TO PAY THE RATE THE GOVERNMENT SETS. Which is now $80,000 in Chicago. Its the law. If we don't do it, we can be sued. And worse, we will not be able to hire H1Bs anymore. The employees can get another job at anytime. The visa can be transferred if the employee quits to work somewhere else.

For an H1B or green card we have to post the job with the pay. If anyone can pass the test we have to hire them which we do. But we still hire the H1B candidate as well because its so hard to find good programmers.

I would love to hire Americans instead. They speak English.
I don't have to pay for the H1B and green card process. And I can explain things easier to them.

I think what you are describing could be true of contract programmers. We never use them. I don't think its true. But I could not be sure. And in that case the company providing the contract programmers would be breaking the law. Also, it could be true for the outsourced programmers who live in China and India. Who knows what happens there. But both those cases would go away if more programmers were available.

Let me just say that bad programmers are worth less than nothing to me. They do bad work which has to be thrown out and replaced. And in the process many testers and project managers have to double their efforts and time. Don't try and tell me that there are lots of Americans you can train. Your wrong. Its like hiring someone off the street and making them the starting pitcher for a major league team.

If you want to hire Americans, start by firing teachers. Most teachers have soft degrees, English, history, education. These people cannot teach math above the 5th grade. I know they do. But they do not do it well. Americans should be learning calculus by Freshman year. That means algebra and geometry before high school. And they should take logic or programming starting in 5th grade as well. Our teachers generally suck at this. And of course they should. Since they have never taken a real math class after high school.

45 posted on 07/11/2014 9:22:37 PM PDT by poinq
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To: poinq

When I was in Chicago I could have taken your test, blown it away, and still ask only five figures. Where on earth were you?


46 posted on 07/11/2014 9:25:03 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: poinq

If we have a shortage of labor, why are wages declining?


68 posted on 07/11/2014 10:49:01 PM PDT by kabar
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To: poinq

You just demonstrated why H1B prevents wage increases and why ‘not enough Americans’ will do the job. You destroyed your own argument.

Do you not understand supply and demand ? Cut off H1B and wages will rise and more people will become computer programmers, which is difficult and requires more incentives.

I don’t think you are all that good at math, or at least, reasoning.

H1B means increased supply, no wage pressure. No H1B means less supply, more wage pressure.

I understand treasonous managerial types just want cheap labor across the board though. It means bigger bonuses.


71 posted on 07/12/2014 12:14:00 AM PDT by sunrise_sunset
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To: poinq

Oldest game you employers play. Select American candidates from no name schools vs foreign born students from great colleges. Have a test, see the results, American candidates suck and foreign ones are qualified. I got students from great tech schools whose resumes are ignored while foreign born students from the same tech schools are snatched up for next level interviews. Maybe at your level you prefer American workers vs the paperwork of H-1B, but someone in HR thinks otherwise. Situation got so abusive that Computer World (a pro IT mag) had to write an article on the subject. I think Congress should investigate this so call skill/tech gap between US and foreign candidates. Colleges claim US leads in higher education and thousands of foreign students flock to US vs home country. About 2/3 of the students do not grad or change majors. Top US colleges are tough. Top of the line US school charge huge tuitions and hold high reputations yet their IT grads have the same unemployment rate as no name colleges???!!!! So either corporations are lying about the quality of US grads or the top US tech colleges are lying about the quality of their high price education.


114 posted on 07/12/2014 11:24:09 AM PDT by Fee ( Big Gov and Big Business are Enemies of America)
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