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Russian Involvement Suspected In Crash Killing 295
Kyiv Post ^ | July 18, 2014

Posted on 07/17/2014 4:16:45 PM PDT by nickcarraway

A Malaysia Airlines passenger jet crashed and burned in eastern Ukraine on July 17 after being shot down by a missile in what President Petro Poroshenko called a terrorist act. All all 295 people on board, including 280 passengers and 15 crew members, are presumed dead.

Security Services of Ukraine chief Valentyn Nalivaichenko, at a late night news conference, said the government is making all evidence in the investigation public, including intercepted phone calls between two members of the Russian military special services unit – known as the GRU – in which they discussed shooting down the airplane.

However, Russian President Vladimir Putin denied any involvement, saying Ukraine is responsible. However, Ukrainian officials say the Kremlin-backed separatists evidently mistook the commercial aircraft for a Ukrainian military one in an area of fighting between the government and Russian-supported forces.

In the conversation, Nalivaichenko says that one Russian officer “who is a terrorist bastard” calls another, identified as Russian Col. Vasily Geranin, to report that subordinates who arrived on the crash scene discovered that it was a civilian airliner downed with lots of casualties. Other news reports from the scene in a field in Donetsk Oblast, near the city of Torez, suggest that Kremlin-backed separatists have seized the airline’s flight recorder, crucial to any investigation, and are taking it to Moscow.

Nalivaichenko said “our first task is to investigate who among the Russian commanders gave the order to shoot down the plane.”

The commercial Boeing 777 airlines was flying at an altiude of 10 kilometers – or 33,000 feet – when, according to the Interior Ministry, the plane was brought down by a ground-to-air missile.

Russian-backed separatist commander Igor Girkin, also known as Strelkov, initially claimed credit for the downing of a military transport airplane. He revised his statement later.

“We did warn you – do not fly in our sky,” he wrote on VK.com, Russia’s version of Facebook. Since the Ukrainian government doesn’t control the area where the plane crashed, heavy suspicion – especially in light of Nalivaichenko’s public release of intercepted conversations – falls on Russian military forces for carrying out the strike.

If proved, the murder of 295 civilians would almost surely bring a much swifter and stronger reaction from the West, including the United States and European Union, whose leaders have been reluctant to impose tough sanctions on Russia’s key economic sectors of finance, military and energy.

The 295 people aboard the plane possibly included 23 Americans and nine British citizens as well as 15 crew members.

U.S. President Barack Obama said on July 17 that “we are working to determine whether there were American citizens on board. That is our first priority….The U.S. will offer any assistance we can to determine what happened and why…our thoughts and prayers are with all the families of the passengers, wherever they call home.”

The flight departed at 12:14 p.m. from Amsterdam en route to Kuala Lumpur, and was reportedly shot down around 4:20 p.m.

Russian and Western journalists reported seeing mangled bodies and passports of American, Russian, Dutch and Malaysian citizens, among others, at the scorched crash site.

Poroshenko announced the government is launching an investigation into the incident, but called the event “a terrorist act.” He said Ukrainian forces had nothing to do with the plane crash. According to the anti-terrorist operation’s information center, Ukraine’s military aviation did not fly on July 17.

Malaysian President Mohd Najib Tun Razak tweeted: “I am shocked by reports that an MH plane crashed. We are launching an immediate investigation.”

The separatist leader Girkin initially claimed credit in a tweet that was later removed.

“The plane has just been taken down somewhere around Torez (Donetsk Oblast). It lays there behind the Progress mine. We did warn you – do not fly in our sky. And here is the video proving another ‘bird’ falling down. The bird went down behind the slagheap, not in the residential district. So no peaceful people were injured.”

Girkin is a Moscow native who, according to the Security Service of Ukraine, is a high-ranking officer in Russia’s military intelligence department.

It appears that, despite their denials, the Russian-backed separatists had weapons capable of downing a commercial flight at least 10 kilometers or 33,000 feet high. On June 29, representatives of Donetsk People’s Republic boasted that they took over a Ukrainian military base that had Buk long-range missiles.

The operational range of missiles fired by Buk is up to 25 kilometers, or 2.5 times the altitude at which the Malaysian plane flew.

Many airlines, including Air France, Aeroflot and British Airlines, said they will avoid Ukrainian airspace. An Interfax report said the plane came down 50 kilometers (or 20 miles) short of entering Russian airspace. It “began to drop, afterwards it was found burning on the ground on Ukrainian territory,” the unnamed source said.

In a telephone interview with Channel 5, a Torez resident said that when the plane spiraled down after being hit, “it looked like a cargo transport plane, and only later did we realize it was a passenger plane.”

Ukraine’s government forces and Russia-backed separatists continue to fight for control of the heavily industrialized population centers of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, home to 15 percent of Ukraine near the Russian border.

Two Ukrainian military planes were shot down in the area in the past few days. Ukraine’s government accuses Russia of complicity.

Find the transcript of the phone conversations show Kremlin-backed fighter telling Russian military intelligence office here.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: mh17; russia; ukraine
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1 posted on 07/17/2014 4:16:45 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Not to worry on this folks, CBS news just had Hillary on to give us her analysis.


2 posted on 07/17/2014 4:24:45 PM PDT by anoldafvet (Close the border!!!)
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To: nickcarraway

Putin is simply squeezing obamas balls.


3 posted on 07/17/2014 4:26:07 PM PDT by freeangel ( (free speech is only good until someone else doesn't like it)
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To: nickcarraway

I know it’s early in the process of data gathering. But Putin/Russia controls the mercenaries in E Ukraine. If these guys did in fact shoot down the airliner...Putin is complicit.

IMO...this may well lead to Putin’s eventual downfall. These old KGB trained Russians don’t want to let go of power and Putin succumbed to an aggressive overreach when he invaded Ukraine.

Here’s hoping Putin goes quietly into the night w/ his young mistress and retires. Heaven knows he’s managed to pillage enough $$ from the Russian people.


4 posted on 07/17/2014 4:27:31 PM PDT by conservaKate ( I grow weary of the goobers in the Republican party. (thanks Chris))
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To: freeangel
Putin is simply squeezing obamas balls.

While Obama is squeezing Reggies'.

5 posted on 07/17/2014 4:28:11 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: nickcarraway

6 posted on 07/17/2014 4:29:00 PM PDT by Justa
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To: nickcarraway

Cue the Putin lovers/apologists. For the life of me I cannot understand the love many on this forum have for this ex KGB Soviet Communist thug. This airliner was brought down by an SA-17. The SA-17 is deployed as part of an IADS(Integrated Air Defense System), of which the Russians have one of if not the most formidable IADS in the world. You can’t just pull Joe Shiite the Ragman off the street, stick him in an SA-17 and let him go to town. These SAM crews are highly trained. As part of the overall IADS, someone up the chain had to give the word to engage. That someone knew exactly what this aircraft was. This is on Putin, he owns this.


7 posted on 07/17/2014 4:29:09 PM PDT by sean327 (God created all men equal, then some become Marines!)
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To: sean327

Was it an SA 17 or SA 11? Thanks


8 posted on 07/17/2014 4:31:00 PM PDT by Shark24
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To: nickcarraway
It doesn't matter any horse shi! is used to try to explain who done it. Russia did. Russia is taking over countries surrounding them and they have set a war up. It is their action that caused the killing that is happening and if they minded their own business none of this would be happening. Putin is the new Hitler of the world.
9 posted on 07/17/2014 4:33:13 PM PDT by Logical me
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To: nickcarraway

Remember folks, the Obama Administration has been telling us for almost two years that Benghazi was caused by a baloney video. Now, they know within a few hours that a missile did it and they know what kind of missile it was and that the Ukrainians didn’t do it? It could very well be some really bad stuff, but I’d wait a while before making any pronouncements


10 posted on 07/17/2014 4:33:14 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Shark24

From everything I have found it was an SA-17. The SA-17 is the modern replacement for the SA-11.


11 posted on 07/17/2014 4:34:18 PM PDT by sean327 (God created all men equal, then some become Marines!)
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To: dfwgator; freeangel

As bad as Obama was with Putin, let’s be honest, compared to Bush he’s Patton towards Obama. Bush couldn’t stop flirting with him and wanted to get gay-married to Putin.


12 posted on 07/17/2014 4:34:36 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: anoldafvet
I've seen a few reports that the missile was an S-300.
TWB
13 posted on 07/17/2014 4:37:08 PM PDT by TWhiteBear (Sarah Palin, the Flame of the North)
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To: blueunicorn6

Dude there is video all over the place of this shoot down. We know for a fact there are SAM assets in the area. How many damn aircraft have to fall out of the Ukrainian sky before you take off your tin foil hat?


14 posted on 07/17/2014 4:37:10 PM PDT by sean327 (God created all men equal, then some become Marines!)
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To: nickcarraway

What was Putin doing with Bush in office, compared to what he’s doing now.

I think Putin had a healthy respect for President Bush.


15 posted on 07/17/2014 4:38:08 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Bush was in love with Putin. He’d do anything Putin wanted.


16 posted on 07/17/2014 4:42:04 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway
It may end up being a classic case of mistaken identity with that shoot down.

It appears the crew that manned that 9K37 Buk missile system didn't have enough training and instead of shooting down what was supposed to be a Ukrainian An-26, they accidentally shot down a jet airliner.

17 posted on 07/17/2014 4:42:55 PM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: nickcarraway

Key passage from article...

“despite their denials, the Russian-backed separatists had weapons capable of downing a commercial flight at least 10 kilometers or 33,000 feet high. On June 29, representatives of Donetsk People’s Republic boasted that they took over a Ukrainian military base that had Buk long-range missiles.”


18 posted on 07/17/2014 4:44:08 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: ETL 2

From March 10, 2014...

Russian troops seize hospital, missile base in Ukraine’s Crimea

(snip)

Russian soldiers disarmed servicemen at a Ukrainian Army missile base overnight Friday. Ukrainian military spokesman Vladislav Seleznyov told a local TV station that some 200 troops approached the building and threatened to charge it if the Ukrainian soldiers refused to give up their weapons.

Crimea’s parliament has set a March 16 referendum on joining Russia, which has been denounced by Ukraine’s government.”

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/10/russian-troops-seize-hospital-missile-base-in-ukraine-crimea/
__________________

March 25, 2014...

“the seized armaments include ships, the underwater infrastructure of the Ukrainian Navy that has no analogues anywhere else in the Black Sea, Marine Corps weapons, including MANPADS, air defense systems, and, in particular, Buk M1 missile systems.”

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/197688.html
__________________

July 17, 2014.

“BUK missile launchers are capable of taking down aircraft the size of a Boeing 777 flying at a cruising altitude of 33,000 feet, meaning the impact is likely to have blown the plane apart in the sky”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696389/That-blast-look-smoke-Sick-boast-laughing-rebels-saw-MH17-hit-missile-hours-leader-boasted-We-warned-not-fly-sky.html


19 posted on 07/17/2014 4:44:36 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: anoldafvet

“What difference does it make?”

Has the State Dept. confirmed 23 Americans were on board?


20 posted on 07/17/2014 4:45:09 PM PDT by Ghost of SVR4 (So many are so hopelessly dependent on the government that they will fight to protect it.)
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To: sean327

It’s like I wrote, the Obama Administration can tell us in a few hours what happened half a world away, but even with drones over Benghazi, they didn’t know it was a raid? Interesting.


21 posted on 07/17/2014 4:48:32 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: sean327
Cue the Putin lovers/apologists. For the life of me I cannot understand the love many on this forum have for this ex KGB Soviet Communist thug.

The FR KGB Putin Fan Club. I can't understand either why they are allowed to remain and push their BS on less knowledgeable freepers.

22 posted on 07/17/2014 4:48:36 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: freeangel

Really? Which ones?


23 posted on 07/17/2014 4:49:50 PM PDT by Jane Long ("And when thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek")
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To: nickcarraway

BDS, alive and well.


24 posted on 07/17/2014 4:51:16 PM PDT by Ghost of SVR4 (So many are so hopelessly dependent on the government that they will fight to protect it.)
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To: blueunicorn6

What’s so interesting about it? FReepers have eviscerated the Administration’s Benghazi story. Now we have to give it the benefit of the doubt?


25 posted on 07/17/2014 4:52:08 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Ghost of SVR4
I looked in his eyes and saw his soul
26 posted on 07/17/2014 4:53:04 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: sean327

Proof of the “video all over the place of this shoot down”. Even the scummiest of sites don’t have it.


27 posted on 07/17/2014 4:54:26 PM PDT by Ghost of SVR4 (So many are so hopelessly dependent on the government that they will fight to protect it.)
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To: nickcarraway

Wow. Bush said something that proved to be stupid. Imagine that.


28 posted on 07/17/2014 4:55:27 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: freeangel

Obama’s been caressing Putin’s for years. He promised a couple years ago he would be more “flexible” toward Russia. To “reset” relations. He bent over backwards appeasing the KGB thug on missile defense and other key items.


29 posted on 07/17/2014 4:56:12 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: sean327

Yes Putin owns this.

And let’s not forget the Russian rebel cheering squad here at FR as we remember these 300 dead civilians including 23 Americans.

The Russian rebel cheering squad here has been portraying these Russian rebels and Putin as some kind of liberators. They are war criminals! Cheering on these Russian terrorists and spreading misinformation while defending them is like partnering with Heinrich Himmler and the SS.


30 posted on 07/17/2014 5:01:39 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: nickcarraway

You can’t even get the quote right.
Go twist elsewhere with your BDS.
The real problem we now face is an absent CinC. He’s off fundraising while (awaiting State Dept confirmation) 23 Americans might have been killed. You going all Reggie Love on obama now?


31 posted on 07/17/2014 5:02:03 PM PDT by Ghost of SVR4 (So many are so hopelessly dependent on the government that they will fight to protect it.)
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To: nickcarraway
Girkin aka "Strelkov" claims to have shot down Ukraine Air Force cargo jet at same time and location! Millions saw the page before it was removed............................................................................... https://vk.com/strelkov_info ............................................................................................................... 17.07.2014 17:50 (мск) Сообщение от ополчения. "В районе Тореза только что сбили самолет Ан-26, валяется где-то за шахтой "Прогресс". Предупреждали же - не летать в "нашем небе". А вот и видео-подтверждение очередного "птичкопада". Птичка упала за террикон, жилой сектор не зацепила. Мирные люди не пострадали. А также еще есть информация о втором сбитом самолете, вроде бы Су." Facts speak by themselves..........'''''''''''''''''''''''''' They removed the link after they realized just they stepped on putlers balls.
32 posted on 07/17/2014 5:02:54 PM PDT by hubel458
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To: RayChuang88

That’s my early thinking on this.

Moronic Russian backed separatist gets the weapon and uses no judgement to lock on a commercial airliner and shoot it down. So happy with himself is he that he brags about. Then...

I don’t think Putin orders or okays this, but his manipulations of the situation that got us here make him as guilty as if he pulled the trigger.

The guy is the consumate hot-shot dumb ass.


33 posted on 07/17/2014 5:04:24 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Think how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are stupider than that.)
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To: 1rudeboy

We have American facilities in Benghazi that are attacked while an American drone circles overhead, and almost two years later, the Obama Administration is still not sure if it was a raid or a parade. Yet, within a few hours, they can tell us exactly what happened to a Malaysian aircraft flying over a nation half a world away?
It’s like another FReeper once wrote.
“I can explain it to you, but I can’t make you understand it.”


34 posted on 07/17/2014 5:07:20 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: sean327
This is on Putin, he owns this.

Your analysis makes no sense. Shooting down a civilian airliner is not in Putin's interest, nor Kiev's, nor that of the Ukrainian rebels who actually did the deed.

The rebels thought they'd just bagged a second of Kiev's AN-26 transports. Their commander was heard asking where the pilots were (the pilots of Monday's AN-26 bailed out and were captured by the rebels). He was prepared to brag, but 40 minutes later he got the news that there were dead bodies and foreign passports strewn across the fields. It was then that he realized they'd f---ed up big time!

35 posted on 07/17/2014 5:09:59 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: blueunicorn6

Good point....

I see a few on here already parrotting the Obama/MSNBC “Putin did it” line.....and we have already been burned quite a few times by Obama and Liberal Media spin. Obviously some folks still believe HillaryBama on Benghazi


36 posted on 07/17/2014 5:10:59 PM PDT by DisorderOnBorder (They are Illegal Aliens...not immigrants)
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To: nickcarraway

They say missile, but that may change. In a couple of years it my be found to be a problem with the center fuel tank.Or does that type of thorough investigation only happen in America?


37 posted on 07/17/2014 5:12:08 PM PDT by TBall
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To: 1rudeboy

The point is....that after Benghazi...folks still willy-nilly believe everything Obama and the liberal media spout about Ukraine....and anyone who disagrees “supports Putin”

Obama lied about Benghazi. Why would anyone believe him on Ukraine?


38 posted on 07/17/2014 5:15:26 PM PDT by DisorderOnBorder (They are Illegal Aliens...not immigrants)
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To: blueunicorn6
Remember folks, the Obama Administration has been telling us for almost two years that Benghazi was caused by a baloney video. Now, they know within a few hours that a missile did it and they know what kind of missile it was and that the Ukrainians didn’t do it?

The Ukrainian rebels, who want to separate and join Russia, did it by mistake. They thought they were shooting down a Ukrainian government plane.

As for Obama, don't mind him. He's just an impotent spectator in this particular war.

39 posted on 07/17/2014 5:18:01 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: TBall

Since it was Malaysian Airlines, we are supposed to blame it on the pilot, first. /sarc


40 posted on 07/17/2014 5:18:11 PM PDT by DisorderOnBorder (They are Illegal Aliens...not immigrants)
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To: Ghost of SVR4
The real problem we now face is an absent CinC.

We're better off with the Traitor-in-Chief doing something other than fundamentally destroying the United States of America.

41 posted on 07/17/2014 5:19:37 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: ETL 2

Knock it off with the posting of snippets from news organizations. Especially from copyrighted sources.


42 posted on 07/17/2014 5:20:58 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: ETL 2

And the spamming too.


43 posted on 07/17/2014 5:23:31 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: cynwoody
Shooting down a civilian airliner is not in Putin's interest, nor Kiev's, nor that of the Ukrainian rebels who actually did the deed.

True, no one gains from this.

Why was a commercial airliner flying through airspace they had been warned wasn't safe??

IMO this was some type of horrendous error.... I'd sure hate to be the guy who launched that missile :-(

44 posted on 07/17/2014 5:24:43 PM PDT by Bobalu (Israel is the most long-suffering and peace loving nation on Earth.)
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To: Bobalu
Why was a commercial airliner flying through airspace they had been warned wasn't safe??

It was a Malaysian Airlines commercial airliner. Rumor has it the Malaysians are light on both competence and spare change. They were trying to save fuel by not diverting around Ukraine. Instead, they flew straight across the country for 700+ miles and were almost to Russia before they got hit.

A couple of days ago, someone on FR predicted an airliner would soon get hit. Only, IIRC, they thought it would be Moscow - Tel Aviv, not Amsterdam - Kuala Lumpur.

45 posted on 07/17/2014 5:34:20 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Bobalu

It was Putin’s response to the sanctions.

Article title:
U.S. sanctions targeted Russian missile makers
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-u-s-sanctions-targeted-russian-missile-makers/


46 posted on 07/17/2014 5:35:36 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: DisorderOnBorder
Obama lied about Benghazi. Why would anyone believe him on Ukraine?

This isn't rocket surgery. How about taking Obama out of it and looking at what the rebels themselves said? Jeepers

47 posted on 07/17/2014 5:45:52 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: sean327

it could have been a newbie mistake. someone in a vodka induced haze.. you can never tell with these “insurgents”..


48 posted on 07/17/2014 5:46:22 PM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: cynwoody
"The Ukrainian rebels, who want to separate and join Russia, did it by mistake."

That's the most likely scenario. People who don't have any means of checking commercial flights vs military flights but do have enough knowledge to lock up a target then launch are probably the shooters.

Other things are possible, but nothing is any where near as probable as people who figure their SAM capability is a "use it or loose it" weapon downing the plane.

Nitwits with advanced weapons are a scourge to both their supporters and their enemies.

Just look at Hamas doing far more damage to their own people than to Israel. The Ukraine separatists are so far not quite as bad but with the increasing use of intense artillery fire by the Kiev side, they're going down the same path.

49 posted on 07/17/2014 5:51:12 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: conservaKate; sean327; Logical me; blueunicorn6; Ghost of SVR4; free_life; hubel458; cynwoody; ...
Russia did it.

Ukraine Separatist Leader Boasts Of Downing Plane
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3181549/posts

Where Did Ukraine's Rebels Get Missile Launcher That Allegedly Shot Down Malaysia Airlines Plane?
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3181563/posts

Malaysian Passenger Jet 'Shot Down' Over Eastern Ukraine
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3181558/posts

And here's the motive behind the cheerleading for Putin.

Obama’s Latest Executive Order Slapping Russia With Sanctions Could Affect Some AK-47-Owning Americans
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3181547/posts


50 posted on 07/17/2014 5:53:58 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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