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Malaysia plane downed by top Russian export
MarketWatch ^ | July 18, 2014 | Daniel Goldstein

Posted on 07/18/2014 5:27:51 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

Russian-made SAM has long held the respect of the world’s militaries

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The downing of a Malaysian Boeing 777 over Ukraine by suspected separatists using a Russian-made “Buk” surface-to-air missile, or SAM, is a grim reminder of a Cold War truism.

Russian SAMs are some of the deadliest in the business.

While the ground weapons of Russia and the predecessor Soviet Union — namely, the T-72 main battle tank and BMP-series infantry fighting vehicles — have fared particularly poorly in combat in Middle East wars against the Israelis and later against U.S. and coalition forces in the 1991 and 2003 Iraq conflicts, the performance of their surface-to-air missile systems is a far different story.

“We gave the Russian SAMs a lot of respect,” said U.S. Navy Commander (ret.) Kevin Sidenstricker, a former U.S. Navy backseat Radar Intercept Officer who flew aboard F-14 Tomcats during Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003 as well as Operation Southern Watch, patrolling Iraqi airspace after the 1991 Gulf War.

“The first time you don’t respect one, it’s going to get you,” the Fighter Weapons School or “Top Gun” graduate said in an interview.

The power of Soviet SAMs was probably first demonstrated with the shoot-down of U-2 pilot Francis Gary Powers in May 1960 by an SA-2 “Guideline” (its NATO code name) missile at a height of over 70,000 feet, more than twice the height that Malaysian flight MH17 was flying when it was shot down over the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine, which has seen ongoing violence between Ukrainian troops and pro-Russia separatists.

At least one U.S. citizen was killed on the flight, President Obama said Friday at a White House briefing, along with as many as 100 AIDS researchers and health workers, who were headed to

(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: aerospace; buk; mh17; russia; ukraine

1 posted on 07/18/2014 5:27:52 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

70 kilo warhead.That’s a real killer.Does it have proximity fusing or is it direct hit only?


2 posted on 07/18/2014 5:33:34 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Farmer Dean

Small but perhaps relevant point: nobody deliberately shot down an airliner; it was a mistake (they thought it was a transport).

We did the same thing to an Iranian airliner, which we thought was an Iranian F-16.

Mistakes were made in many ways; not the least being, the absurd attempts to deny responsibility.

But a mistaken shoot-down is different from a deliberate shoot-down.

Russia (or her surrogates) need to apologize, make reparations, and pay for the plane.


3 posted on 07/18/2014 5:39:16 PM PDT by CondorFlight (I)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Formidable they might be but there was little skill required in shooting down an unsuspecting jetliner.

Then again, those idiots might have also “shot down” their own cause.


4 posted on 07/18/2014 5:49:38 PM PDT by NonValueAdded ("The Arab Spring is over. Welcome to the Jihadi Spring." Jonah Goldberg)
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To: CondorFlight

I’m sure they will get right to taking ownership, just like they always have. Anything that hurts Russia will be buried and covered up. Big gov tyrants always subscribe to the noble lie, just like they do in this country. OKC, TWA800, Waco, fast and furious, operation PATCON.... The list goes on and on. Peasants must believe in the infallibility of Gov or they might become free.


5 posted on 07/18/2014 6:18:36 PM PDT by drunknsage
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To: NonValueAdded
.


Putin's two-fold reaction will be:

1) quietly (in about six weeks) arrange to have the BUK missile crew in question ... elimated without a trace ... for their MASSIVE screw-up

2) quietly continue Putin's slealth conquest of Ukraine ... to be completed by Jan 21, 2017 ...



.
6 posted on 07/18/2014 6:18:53 PM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (.)
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To: Farmer Dean
Sterjnevaya boyegolovka (known as high explosive continuous rod in non-Soviet military) is designed to destroy aircraft. Striking elements are rods with square or circular cross section. The rods can be connected to each other or connected (welded) alternately upper or lower ends. When they are undermining the fly away from the direction of the missile, forming a continuous ring connected rods, while non - interrupted with overlap. Rods "cut" and trim the aircraft power set, resulting in an instantaneous destruction of its structure. advantages: compactness compared with shrapnel or high-explosive warhead instantaneous destruction of targets in the air. disadvantages: low rate of expansion of the ring (as it increases the ring can be destroyed prematurely) small damage radius (limited disclosure radius rod rings) insufficient cutting capacity rods action against some strong goals. (Googled from Russian)
7 posted on 07/18/2014 6:42:35 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The offending BUK system and its transporter were in Torez, a coal-mining town, 10 miles from the aircraft crash site:

Tucked in the corner of a leafy square, is this the Russian missile launcher that blasted flight MH17 out of the sky?

Then there is a video of the BUK "on its way to fire the deadly missile."

And, video of the BUK (minus 2 missiles) eaving the area.

Plus more details and transcripts of the intercepted phone calls.

8 posted on 07/18/2014 7:10:40 PM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: Farmer Dean

did it ever occur to you that ukraine permitted
flights close to the russian border despite jets being shot down in same area...ukraine approves where and who flys over its soverign land...i dont see this point in one single report from anyone at bloomberg...meaning ukraine knew, in time, a civilian plane would get hit no different than allowing planes to fly into dust from an active volcano....


9 posted on 07/18/2014 7:44:16 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: Understand the stimulus
Your sick!

You are trying to spread misinformation and blame away from evil Russian
mercenaries and military leaders .

Your peddling a rape victim should have known better than leave their house !

The Russian mercenaries rolled there Missile launcher back to there Evil empire.

Why does Free Republic allow KGB apologist sum to post here !

Enough ,you need your account yanked and fellow your fellow Putin groupies too!

10 posted on 07/18/2014 7:59:44 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: ncalburt

you cant handle the truth...or facts...and ur reaction proves it...go back and join your climate scientist buddies


11 posted on 07/18/2014 8:02:07 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: ncalburt

you cant handle the truth...or facts...and ur reaction proves it...go back and join your climate scientist buddies


12 posted on 07/18/2014 8:02:17 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: Understand the stimulus
Given the way government has worked in Ukraine ever since they became Independent, it's typical poor practices and implementation of decent practices that led to their not bothering to tell all flights to stay West of the Don. They're not the sort of government that would even think to have their civilian and military people coordinate and worry about such things and anyone who did would more than likely be told that was not their problem but something the nations who owned the civilian aircraft should take care of. It's the way things work there.

IOW, inept management in everything they do, not just this incident. That's how they shot down an aircraft by accident years ago and obviously they didn't consider airspace control and management as part the problem that led to that incident.

The Separatists, OTOH, fired on a target they could clearly see, was flying higher than most Ukraine military flights, was on a path civilian airlines had regularly used even if most were not still using that route, and didn't bother to positively identify the aircraft before they locked it up and launched. That's arguably criminal negligence rather than just poor practices. It's something a reasonable individual could be expected to consider.

There's a big difference between systemic negligence the criminal negligence of the shooters.

Arguing that Ukraine doing everything right would have kept this from happening doesn't absolve the shooters of criminal negligence particularly since the contributory negligence was not in and of itself a factor in the lethality of the result but only something that increased the exposure of the aircraft to potentially lethal situations.

Increasing the risk of a potentially lethal encounter is a far cry from the shooters intentionally unleashing something designed and built specifically to achieve a lethal result.

JMHO

13 posted on 07/18/2014 9:07:14 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

No one here has said the separatists should not be held responsible. Worse I have seen was partly responsible. However to act as if Putin personally did this himself is kinda crazy. When you have Cossacks running around in an area, anything is possible. They are historically known for being uncontrollable with a hair trigger. From the reports we have seen, they thought it was a Ukrainian military plane and when they found out it was not, they said oh well. Should not be flying into a war zone. Terrorists intentionally target civilians. So to call them terrorist is also kinda crazy. They did not celebrate after they discovered it was civilian as Islamic terrorists would.


14 posted on 07/18/2014 11:32:50 PM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: Understand the stimulus

Why would the airline allow it’s flights over a war zone?To save a little fuel?


15 posted on 07/19/2014 8:43:44 AM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Farmer Dean

why would Ukraine allow any civilian plane in a war one


16 posted on 07/19/2014 3:35:55 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: Understand the stimulus

Maybe the answer is for the rest of the world to quit flying over Russia and to forbid Russian planes from flying anywhere else. Boycott Putin’s pigpen until the Russians turn him over for possible prosecution/trial/execution.


17 posted on 07/19/2014 3:42:05 PM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Tau Food

A plane with over 100 AIDS experts going to a conference is downed over Russia, by veering into a warzone and being shot down at 33000 feet.

Who can perform that with 1 missile? That is not an RPG?

Who stands to benefit, if this is on purpose?

What were they going to report about drug protocols, research findings, etc?


18 posted on 07/19/2014 3:44:19 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: Tau Food

lets apply the same rules to OBAMA


19 posted on 07/19/2014 3:46:17 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: combat_boots
I don't think that the pigs who shot down that jet had any idea where the jet was going. I don't think that the pigs who shot down that jet cared where the jet was going.

That's why pigs shouldn't be left in charge of dangerous weapons.

20 posted on 07/19/2014 3:47:26 PM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Tau Food

One missile that brings down a plane at 33000 feet has to come from a vehicle mounted setup. It was a single missile, not two. So, the people involved in the op knew what to do. They are professionals.

Furthermore, at least Russia, the US, the UK and China would all know the details from satellite footage. They know who did it. And they have the pics to prove it.


21 posted on 07/19/2014 4:05:17 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spiritui Sancto!)
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To: Tau Food

http://news.yahoo.com/monitor-archives-shooting-down-iran-air-flight-655-184749961.html


From the Monitor Archives: The shooting down of Iran Air Flight 655

Passenger jets being shot out of the sky is rare. One of those instances was in 1988, when the USS Vincennes mistakenly downed Iran Air Flight 655 over the Strait of Hormuz.


maybe you were asleep when this was discussed in your college course on affirmative action


22 posted on 07/19/2014 5:49:51 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: Tau Food

http://news.yahoo.com/monitor-archives-shooting-down-iran-air-flight-655-184749961.html


From the Monitor Archives: The shooting down of Iran Air Flight 655

Passenger jets being shot out of the sky is rare. One of those instances was in 1988, when the USS Vincennes mistakenly downed Iran Air Flight 655 over the Strait of Hormuz.


maybe you were asleep when this was discussed in your college course on affirmative action


23 posted on 07/19/2014 5:50:15 PM PDT by Understand the stimulus
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To: First_Salute

They’ve admitted to having them before, continue to admit it today

http://reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0FS1V920140723?irpc=932


24 posted on 07/23/2014 6:48:57 PM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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