Ukraine to seek Nato membership, says PM Yatsenyuk

BBC ^ | 29 August 2014 | -

[FreeReign]

Ukraine's prime minister has said he will ask parliament to put the country on a path towards Nato membership.

Arseny Yatsenyuk said the government was sending a bill to MPs urging that Ukraine's non-bloc status be cancelled.

The remarks come as Nato holds an emergency meeting to discuss the crisis in eastern Ukraine.

The West has stepped up its accusations of direct Russian involvement in the conflict, following advances by pro-Russian rebels.

On Thursday Nato released satellite images it said showed Russian forces inside Ukraine. and said more than 1,000 troops were operating there.

[FreeReign]

The reality is The EU are not going to help, The US is not going to overtly help and eventually and most likely Ukraine will fall back under Russian influence. That is not appeasement, that is reality.

Ukraine has every right to join the EU and NATO if invited. If they don't because they are afraid of Russia, that's appeasement.

My point isn't that they should or should not appease the Russians. They may or may not have any choice. My only point is that we should call a spade a spade.

The reality is that you are advising appeasement.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

I’m saying I would not trust US weapons in the hands of Ukranians to not end up in the hands of radicals, just as they do just about every place else.

What do you know about "trust," Russkie? You're a pathological liar spreading falsehoods from thread to thread to defend your guy Putin. I don't care what you claim you do or do not trust. Russkies are subhumans who do not understand the meaning of the word.

[sunmars]

Are you off your head.....Nato is not going to take on Russia or Putin, EVER....unless its the start of WW3.

You don’t seem to understand a lot about political movement and politics.

I have never said the word appeasement, all i have explained is the reality that is happening.

No one is going to lift a finger to help Ukraine if Russia decided to finally march in.

[ansel12]

I agree, Russians want prosperity, and when that and their personal security becomes threatened, then Putin’s glamor wears off and Putin himself comes under threat.

Putin himself has amassed a vast fortune, and doubtfully has any desire to end in an ugly way.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Are you off your head.....Nato is not going to take on Russia or Putin, EVER....unless its the start of WW3.

Countries like ours are weak and have a tendency to pursue appeasement. The Russians and Chicoms have no such issues, since they both have a long traditional of brutal oriental despotism. They understand that power comes from the barrel of a gun, and both these countries are getting bored of just shooting their own people. Now they want variety, and openly speak of nuclear war within their own state controlled media, with the United States as the "bad guys" who will be turned into "radioactive ash."

We might not have a choice on whether the next world war starts.

[sunmars]

This is what I am trying to explain..and that is why i have been saying, no one is going to help them because the EU has become liberal wimp out central that frankly is mired down in legal red tape to even start a war and Obama’s WH has about the military intelligence and might of a doormouse.

Russia would be in Kiev before the EU or The US could get all its reps and senators back from the holidays on the coast to even take a vote, no such problems in Russia or China of that nature, just a do it quick before they notice.

[ansel12]

WWIII with who? The USSR and the Warsaw Pact of Bulgaria
Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Hungary, Poland, Romania?

Have you looked at what Russia is left with and where their troops are now stationed, and how their massive forces of attack forces of many Airbornes divisions and bridge building units are gone?

WWIII, with who, and why would Putin want to destroy himself and his population of 140 million and his active military of 750,000, in a suicidal gesture?

Are you off your head in your gulping in of Putin’s cheap shirtless imagery?

[Gay State Conservative]

The BBC New mentioned this just tonight and someone on that broadcast (I wasn't paying close attention so I'm not sure who) mentioned that that would mean war with the USSR.Vlad Putin is surely a medieval psychopath but is he really *that* depraved?

[Shadow44]

Kind of late now. The invitation was offered over a decade ago and they said no. Not that I enjoy saying “told you so”, but what did they expect from Russia?

[RedMDer]

FReepers, Let's go!
Everyone needs to donate!
All contributions are for the current quarter expenses.


Woo hoo!! And now less than
$5.3k to go!! We can do this!!
Thank you all very much!!

[ansel12]

The U.S. still takes the lead, and NATO is reminding Putin that it exists. “The United States and the United Kingdom support a troop buildup in Eastern Europe; France, Spain and Italy oppose it, with Germany, eager to avoid provocation of Russia, undecided.”

NATO Plans New Bases in Eastern Europe

“”UPI | Aug 27, 2014
BRUSSELS — The head of NATO said new bases in Eastern Europe will be built to counter potential conflict with Russia.
Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said the NATO summit next week in Cardiff, Wales, would overcome divisions within the 28-nation mutual security organization and establish opportunities to deploy troops and equipment near the Russian border.
Poland and the three Baltic countries formerly part of the Soviet Union — Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia — have been especially vocal about the anxiety as a potential target for Russian involvement, in light of Russia’s recent annexation of Crimea, and its perceived role in helping militants in Ukraine’s breakaway eastern provinces.
According to Rasmussen:
“We will adopt what we call a readiness action plan with the aim to be able to act swiftly in this completely new security environment in Europe. We have something already called the NATO response force whose purpose is to be able to be deployed rapidly if needed. Now it’s our intention to develop what I would call a spearhead within that response force at very, very, high readiness. In order to be able to provide such rapid reinforcements you also need some reception facilities in host nations. So it will involve the pre-positioning of supplies, of equipment, preparation of infrastructure, bases, headquarters. The bottom line is you will in the future see a more visible NATO presence in the east.”””

[SgtHooper]

They need to hurry before Putin grabs all he wants, which is what he is doing now. While this future buildup is all good, NATO needs to act and call him out now! The troops and equipment are there to deploy now. And I hear nothing of that occurring. No leadership. On another note, those on this thread who are concerned about any nuclear conflict are misguided—never happen from Russia.

[4Zoltan]

Putin learned in Georgia back in 2008 how far the West was willing to go to stop him. That was the test and he got the answer he wanted. No question he had this thing mapped out since then.

[4Zoltan]

France took the lead in Libya but they and the rest of the EU have economic concerns in this case that trump any outrage over violation of Ukranian sovereignty.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

This is what I am trying to explain..and that is why i have been saying, no one is going to help them because the EU has become liberal wimp out central that frankly is mired down in legal red tape to even start a war and Obama’s WH has about the military intelligence and might of a doormouse. Russia would be in Kiev before the EU or The US could get all its reps and senators back from the holidays on the coast to even take a vote, no such problems in Russia or China of that nature, just a do it quick before they notice.

I understand you. If only we had real leadership. This is why we need men like Cruz and a strong anti-communist and patriotic movement in this country.

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Kind of late now. The invitation was offered over a decade ago and they said no. Not that I enjoy saying “told you so”, but what did they expect from Russia?

A decade ago Russians were already teaching in schools that Ukraine is not a real state:

"Russian university textbooks on geopolitics published since the late 1990s routinely questioned the territorial integrity of Ukraine and, especially, the status of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. Since the 1990s, Russian top officials regularly visited Crimea and spoke about the republic’s integration with Russia in future. In 2008, then Mayor of Moscow Yuriy Luzhkov was denied entry in Ukraine for his earlier speech about the “return” of Sevastopol, the major port in Crimea, to Russia."

http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.se/2014/08/the-ukraine-crisis-is-long-planned.html

Obviously, Russia has been working hard in Ukraine for a long time to keep them out of NATO, but now the Ukrainians have awoken. We gave assurances that Ukraine would be protected from Russian invasion. No, we did not sign a treaty, but the Ukrainians still foolishly disarmed their nukes under the assumption that we would protect them from invasion.

They were wrong to trust us.

[sefarkas]

“Too much, too little
Too late to ever try again
Too much, too little
Too late, let’s end it being friends”

[AmericanExceptionalist]

If for no other reason than the sheer joy of confronting Putin, boldly and directly--within the past 24 hours or so, he just lectured (and threatened) the West--I would very much like to see Ukraine made a part of NATO. Anything to discomfit this man, severely!

Nonetheless, I doubt very much that it will happen.

[sefarkas]

"Russia has undergone significant changes since the collapse of the Soviet Union, moving from a globally-isolated, centrally-planned economy towards a more market-based and globally-integrated economy, but stalling as a partially reformed, statist economy with a high concentration of wealth in officials' hands. Economic reforms in the 1990s privatized most industry, with notable exceptions in the energy and defense-related sectors. The protection of property rights is still weak and the private sector remains subject to heavy state interference. Russia is one of the world's leading producers of oil and natural gas and is also a top exporter of metals such as steel and primary aluminum. Russia's manufacturing sector is generally uncompetitive on world markets and is geared toward domestic consumption. Russia's reliance on commodity exports makes it vulnerable to boom and bust cycles that follow the volatile swings in global prices. The economy, which had averaged 7% growth during 1998-2008 as oil prices rose rapidly, was one of the hardest hit by the 2008-09 global economic crisis as oil prices plummeted and the foreign credits that Russian banks and firms relied on dried up. Slowly declining oil prices over the past few years and difficulty attracting foreign direct investment have contributed to a noticeable slowdown in GDP growth rates. In late 2013, the Russian Economic Development Ministry reduced its growth forecast through 2030 to an average of only 2.5% per year, down from its previous forecast of 4.0 to 4.2%. In 2014, following Russia's military intervention in Ukraine, prospects for economic growth declined further, with expectations that GDP growth could drop as low as zero."

Seven versus #1 and #2. EU may need energy, but someone has to make it profitable to take it out of the ground and ship it. Who needs whom more?

RANK	COUNTRY	GDP (PURCHASING POWER PARITY)	DATE OF INFORMATION
1	United States	$         16,720,000,000,000	2013 est.
2	European Union	$         15,850,000,000,000	2013 est.
3	China	$         13,390,000,000,000	2013 est.
4	India	$            4,990,000,000,000	2013 est.
5	Japan	$            4,729,000,000,000	2013 est.
6	Germany	$            3,227,000,000,000	2013 est.
7	Russia	$            2,553,000,000,000	2013 est.
8	Brazil	$            2,416,000,000,000	2013 est.
9	United Kingdom	$            2,387,000,000,000	2013 est.
10	France	$            2,276,000,000,000	2013 est.
11	Mexico	$            1,845,000,000,000	2013 est.
12	Italy	$            1,805,000,000,000	2013 est.
13	Korea, South	$            1,666,000,000,000	2013 est.
14	Canada	$            1,518,000,000,000	2013 est.
15	Spain	$            1,389,000,000,000	2013 est.
16	Indonesia	$            1,285,000,000,000	2013 est.
17	Turkey	$            1,167,000,000,000	2013 est.