Tortured Discussion about Torture

There is an argument put forth among some in Los Angeles whenever there is an eruption coming from Gaza of rockets fired into Israel. We love to hear the restraint that certain people suggest to the Israelis about the level of their military reaction to the terror raining down on their civilian population. We ask these people what would happen if there were random killer rockets landing in Brentwood or Westwood or Malibu. We are certain that limousine liberals would be demanding annihilation of the perpetrators.

In the same manner it is easy for those who never have to confront evil to demand that we here in the United States should play by a different rulebook than the murderous enemies that challenge civilization.

First of all, all Americans who are in favor of torture raise your hands. That is a small number, if any. Our culture has risen above that and justifiably that should be our policy and our goal.

There are certainly individuals who honestly and courageously are against the use of torture. Senator John McCain is a perfect example. People across the political spectrum have expressed that torture should not be part of our lexicon and I have read their thoughts on this subject.

But for us to completely abandon techniques to extract essential information from combatants would be unilaterally disarming.

What seems to be forgotten is that we are at war. We have been at war with Islamic terrorists for at least two decades if not longer. The way things are going, we will be at war with these malcontents for a long time. Until they are wiped out, this conflict will continue because groups like the Taliban, ISIS, Boko Haram and Hamas will not relent until totally defeated. We are reminded of that whenever they show us another beheaded American, but we seem to forget about it when it is over “there,” in Afghanistan or Israel.

The recent report released by Senator Dianne Feinstein is a very sad event in our history. Feinstein has been a stellar grown-up amongst a group of misguided Democratic Senators, with only a few exceptions such as Senator Robert Menendez. Some consider this report a badge of honor for her; while others like me consider this a black mark on an otherwise fine career.

There has been a lot thrown around about this matter and there are glaring assertions in the Feinstein report. There are two points on which to focus. The first is I am almost absolutely sure that there were some excesses in the interrogation even if our people followed the rules that they were told were in place. This was in the middle of a war, and, as much as we attempt to meter the behavior of our personnel, there will be things done that should not have been done. I would not want to be the person judging that behavior ten years after the fact. The question becomes: was clear malicious intent applied as opposed to an attempt to garner information to protect our country? That is what the bosses were there for at the time – to protect against the excesses.

The second point is you will never convince me that solely using conversation and positive encouragement will elicit information from our enemies. I agree that sometimes the techniques used will gain us false information, but that would happen in either case. There will be situations where prisoners will break and provide us with valuable information through the coercion -- whatever the methods used. There will always be times where we need to do what we need to do to win a war.

The sanctimonious attitudes toward what was done by the CIA over ten years ago (yes, waterboarding stopped in 2004) flummoxed many people. The same people decrying the actions of the CIA are not marching in the streets demanding President Obama stop using unmanned drones from annihilating terrorists and anyone hanging with them. Personally I think that anyone hanging out with well-established terrorists get what they deserve and are not actually collateral damage or innocent. If you don’t believe we should be using torture or drones then you ignore the dangers in this worldthat have existed for millenniums and I would not want you in a position of power.

I am against torture. I also would love to not have a military. I am also a realist. It can be an ugly world beyond our borders. The current danger principally comes from maniacal Islamic terrorists. There will be another danger after that challenging our country and our allies. They hate us not because of what we do, but because of who we are and what we stand for as they attempt to impose their will on us. We need brave souls willing to protect us and I am glad we have them.

Well, haven’t they heard? Obama is opening doors to Cuba, infamous champions of torture.

But waterboarding is still baaaad.

Totally disagree. We never used these tactics in the past, nor should we employ them at present. for several reasons.

1) Its not us. It demeans us and what America stands for as a nation.

2) There are other ways to elicit useful information

3) What is to prevent the spread of these tactics to police departments when they "think" they have the right "suspect"??? We have ALREADY witnessed how readily the state employes surveillance tactics designed to fight terrorism against ordinary citizens. Do you trust them with THIS",

4) Our failure to succeed in what this article clearly identifies as a very long struggle, is our failure to define our enemy and that enemy is ISLAM.

ISLAM in itself is inherently evil and it will generate these radical groups going into the future as it always has in the past. It needs to be utterly destroyed or remade in a better image.

The thing that gets me is that NOW we are saying that waterboarding is NOT torture, but we said it WAS when it was used against us. If we hanged Japanese war criminals for using it on POWs then trying to claim it is NOT torture is lying. This is distinct from the ethos of using anything we need to in order to get whatever info we need, but lies and hypocrisy always damage our ability to win the real war.
Just my .02

ISLAM in itself is inherently evil and it will generate these radical groups going into the future as it always has in the past. It needs to be utterly destroyed or remade in a better image.

Which is why we are never going to destroy "these groups".

There is no moderate Islam. Just patient and impatient Islam.

So the only sensible thing to do is to END IMMIGRATION FROM ISLAMIC COUNTRIES.

Unless and until we are willing to annhilate a couple billion people, what is required is a containment policy similar to what was done with Communism.

You are right on. But the west isn’t doing this. They continue to allow these maniacs in, pander to their philosophies, and marginalize or undermine their own cultures.

And the mainline Christian churches, instead of being in the forefront of this war, are working with leftists to subvert us.

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