Posted on 02/17/2015 1:48:50 PM PST by tcrlaf
General Staff ordered the militias, which are surrounded by Debaltseve, the destruction of heavy machinery and departure. However, out of the new boiler in a fight almost not possible. It is reported online volunteer "Fund Peace and Order" Vsevolod Kozhemeyko, news reports "Press Ukraine".
"Our part in the area Debaltseve no longer be able to enter the engineering and lossless. Order of destruction technology has received. Next to wade explored paths "- says volunteer.
"What is it again? How long can you tolerate errors Viti Muzhenko war and lose people, equipment and grounds. Can this be enough dense unprofessional and shifting the blame on everyone around? "- He adds.
Previously, we reported: According to unconfirmed by official sources data received from the front, the command sector "C" left their fighting positions. They took over the duties of the commander of the 128 th Infantry Brigade mountain of Mukachevo.
Original link: http://uapress.info/uk/news/show/62445
This is not unexpected. The real question is how several thousand Kiev troops will get out of the trap.
Debaltseve is the Alamo. Or perhaps, a more modern example would be Poznan, 1945....
The Ukraine was never a fully independent nation anyway, and its showing now.
It was a Russian colony whose character was damaged by marxism, and later became a kleptocracy. So cynicism abounds, and people are conflicted about who and what they are fighting for, and not willing to die for their “nation.”
IMHO
Looks like the Ukrainians got a little too aggressive after taking Slaviansk from the rebels. What I don’t understand is why they did not pull back from Debaltsev (towards Slaviansk) when it looked like they were about to be cut off. Patton never worried about being cut off because Uncle Sam provided him with so much material and other resources he could always overwhelm, with firepower from his units as well as tactical air, anyone who tried to do so. Ukrainians are operating on a shoestring.
And yet, many are willing to die for “their nation.”
One wonders how many of these Generals may actually be working for Putin. Russia’s infiltration of Ukraine’s military and intelligence community was considered to be very thorough, IIRC, when this all started. Maybe whatever purges were done were not nearly enough...
I once thought maybe the purges might have removed too much of the competent leadership, but at this point, I’m beginning to believe you could get better leadership by yanking people off the streets and installing them as Generals.
Several Tweets about this, in the last hour:
The elements of the 40th battalion in #Debaltseve surrendered to NAF w/ ALL weapons, light and heavy.
These aren't rebels the way the Vietcong were rebels, i.e. as guerillas. These are rebels the way Confederates were rebels, i.e. as a conventional army with the heavy weapons that entails. Except in this case, the rebels appear to be better equipped and supplied (thanks to Mother Russia) than the Ukrainian government. This is probably why the Ukrainian government is suffering these setbacks. They have the mindset that that these rebels are a ragtag band of guerrillas, whereas they're fighting armored units of the Russian military.
5000 are said to be cut off, so it remains to be seen what the rest are doing.
It’s also possible they’re operating with the doctrine of the Red Army, whereas they’re a pale shadow of the post-independence Ukrainian Army, let alone the humongous Cold War-era Red Army. Maybe they’re just re-fighting the last war (plan).
“It’s also possible they’re operating with the doctrine of the Red Army”
That has been my thought, all along.
Straight Soviet Doctrine tactics, and poorly executed ones, at that. Top-Down leadership and control, etc, etc.
Ukraine’s Army, doctrines included, due to Ukraine’s own corruption, never advanced past about 1980, while the rest of the world, even the Russians, moved on.
After the fall of the Soviet Union, Ukrainian Officers became Arms Dealers, not leaders.
I wonder if this is the 40th Kryvbas Battalion. The thing about these “Territorial Battalions” is that there are 50 of them numbering 7000 men in total. That’s 140 men per battalion, or roughly what we’d call a company. The terminology is all over the map. Back in the day, an NVA regiment was 500 men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_defense_battalions_%28Ukraine%29
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/FLAG-40th-TERRITORIAL-BATTALION-KRYVBAS-OFFICIAL-LOGO-ATO-Donbas-Ukraine/291373586930?hash=item43d73819f2
Likely one and the same...
A couple of officers from it had been tweeting for months, and suddenly went dark about a week ago.
Nothing wrong with top-down leadership, as long as you have more resources than the other guy. Top-down leadership helped the Russians go all the way to Berlin during WWII. That's probably how the Russians are fighting today. The issue is that the Ukrainian leadership is setting objectives that assume they have Red Army resources when their relative position, resource-wise, vis-a-vis the Russians is closer to what was available to the Afghan mujahideen vs the Red Army.
“That’s probably how the Russians are fighting today”
Until very recently, the rebels have been fighting with small group tactics. Even when groups came together for a larger operation, it was still fought at the small group level of command.
It has given them an incredible level of flexibility, and ability to respond to Kiev’s moves. It worked because so many “Grey Beards”, men with prior service, in their 40’s-50’s, made up the vast majority of the rebels. Even now, while Kiev is putting kids in the field, they are going up against rebels that are much older.
The Russians biggest contribution, brought in during the last Ceasefire, is a Coordinated Command and Control Network, that allows all groups to work together.
Larger tactical groups of say 100-300, but still operating at the level of small group tactics, of 20-30 fighters.
To paraphrase, this ain’t your Grandpa’s Soviet army.
Ukrainians surrendering Debalseve to NAF...Feb 17, 2015
Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvXjLrX0lJs#t=29
Interesting report on ‘Lviv’ Ukraine one of the three western towns where the push with Maiden originated..they’re avoiding the draft.
Out of a population of 3,000 potential soldiers, it has 19 men at the front, four recovering from injuries, and — as of last month — one death.
Kiev’s 100,000 call-up notices with the aim of mobilizing at least half....no one denies the seriousness of the stakes in the east, “few are eager to fight”.
Military prosecutors have reportedly launched as many as 1,300 criminal cases against draft dodgers.
In Lviv, military authorities last week set up roadblocks around the city, using routine traffic stops as an attempt to catch draft dodgers. The tactic was abandoned after less than two days. But in that time,.. says Oleksandr Tishchenko, the military commander for Lviv Oblast,... dozens of offenders were served notice.
“A lot of people are attempting to avoid mobilization,” he says. “We get messages that they’re abroad, or on a business trip, or that they no longer live at a certain address. But as we discovered, they’re freely driving around Lviv.”
More than 2,000 people who have received call-ups have failed to show up for registration, Tishchenko adds.
http://www.rferl.org/content/western-ukraine-lviv-mobilization-patriotism/26851008.html
Interesting photos of Debaltseve war zone...photographer Max Avdeev embedded with the First Slavyansk Brigade of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic
(WARNING: Several of the following images are NSFW and extremely graphic....bodies are shown in some)
http://www.buzzfeed.com/avdeev/horrific-images-capture-the-sheer-brutality-of-ukraine-war#.jiO1OvrV0
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