Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Army and Marine Corps Still Disagree over M16/M4 Bullet
Military.com News ^ | March 20, 2015 | Matthew Cox

Posted on 03/24/2015 6:35:31 PM PDT by Redcitizen

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-34 last
To: Redcitizen

A machine gun belt often has AP, Tracer, and other? mixed together.


21 posted on 03/24/2015 7:38:44 PM PDT by Scrambler Bob (an icon of resistance within the oppressed patriots, who represent resilience in the face of SSV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Redcitizen
"Scrap the Geneva convention and pull out the soft point 55 grain ammo."

Please learn the facts before spouting mis-information. The Geneva Convention addresses treatment of POW's among other issues. It is The Hague Conventions that address rules for civilized warfare among other issues.

In addition, the Hague Conventions only apply to uniformed soldiers from one of the belligerent parties involved in a particular war. They do not apply to guerrilla warfare or terrorists.

Furthermore, the U.S. has never ratified or signed The Hague Conventions, although we have generally complied by not using expanding bullets. However, one of the several weapons I was issued in Vietnam was a 12 gauge riot gun and OO buckshot, the soft lead pellets of which did not comply.

22 posted on 03/24/2015 7:53:40 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Redcitizen
"U.S. lawmakers recently questioned Army and Marine Corps leaders on small-arms and why the two services buy completely different bullets for the M16A4 rifles and M4 carbines."

Agree with the Marines. Their new rifle barrel is 5.5 inches longer than the M4. It needs a different load.

And the Army, by the way, needs the longer barrel again.


23 posted on 03/24/2015 7:54:15 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: expat2

The .303 MK7 round went sideways for a good reason.The Brits put an aluminum plug in the front of the bullet that made nose light and the base heavy.Bullet keyholed when it hit flesh.


24 posted on 03/24/2015 7:58:26 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: ArmstedFragg

Well, if ever there was a braying jackass she would be the picture


25 posted on 03/24/2015 8:03:29 PM PDT by Not now, Not ever! (Girlfriend suggested I use pelousy in place of swear words, A good idea, I think)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
No need for that, just go the route of the AK74 projectile, with hollow cavity in front of a solid portion and boattailed, pushed at close to 3000 ft/sec

Agreed. Just because a bullet has a hollow point doesn't mean it has to expand. However, the hollow point does cause the bullet to tumble more reliably than just the hinky geometry of the standard 5.56 round.

That's why the 28 grain 5.7x28 round incorporates the feature. The hollow point will collapse somewhere along the perimeter of the cavity and initiate the tumble in as little as two inches of penetration. Furthermore, because the tumble starts somewhat quickly after the initial penetration, it tends to dump ALL the energy Very quickly, but at a greater depth than the standard round.

26 posted on 03/24/2015 8:13:44 PM PDT by papertyger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: PeteB570
"Bottom line in the debate is powder." Not true.

"The M16 and M4 have different barrel lengths." Yes

"If the powder gets a bullet up to speed in the M4 short barrel it will cause overpressure in the longer M16 barrel." Not true.

The chamber pressure is measured in a test barrel. By the time the bullets traverse the length of the shorter M4 barrels, they are already on the down slope side of the pressure curve and the pressure will continue to decrease no matter how much longer the barrel may be. Velocity may increase, even though pressure is decreasing.

"If it gets the round up to speed in the longer barrel it will be under speed in the shorter M4 barrel." (WTF?) Bullet motion is measured by rotation and velocity, not speed. 5.56mm ammunition average velocity and maximum chamber pressure is specified and determined in a 20 inch length test barrel, not the barrel length of individual weapons.

"Speed - spin - accuracy. Can’t get the same performance from both rifles with the same round." Please repeat the obvious over and over until you have it memorized.

27 posted on 03/24/2015 8:19:07 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Redcitizen; PeteB570
"You got a valid point."

No, he does not. U.S. military 5.56mm ammunition is pressure and velocity tested in 20 inch barrels. Commercial .223 Rem ammunition is tested in 24 inch SAAMI test barrels. You are comparing apples to oranges.

In addition, the .223 Rem and 5.56mm cartridges are not identical. They have different chamber configurations, different rifling twists, different velocity specifications and different pressure specifications. The pressure is tested using entirely different equipment and procedures. The numbers are not interchangeable.

28 posted on 03/24/2015 8:28:53 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Redcitizen

It can put food on the table.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=hog+hunting+with+ar+15+videos&FORM=VIRE3#view=detail&mid=0A926AAEFC700B5E33590A926AAEFC700B5E3359


29 posted on 03/24/2015 9:26:17 PM PDT by 353FMG
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PeteB570

That is the best answer I’ve seen yet.


30 posted on 03/24/2015 9:28:25 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (When you are inclined to to buy storage boxes, but contractor bags instead.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Redcitizen
Can someone please explain to me what percentage of our battlefield enemies are using body armor the M855 and M855A1 rounds are supposed to defeat? My guess is 5%, or less, of our enemies do. Those that do use body armor are easily taken down by 7.62 NATO M118LR Ball. This debate is silly [and it is being driven by the environmental idiots and not combat effectiveness].
31 posted on 03/24/2015 10:25:54 PM PDT by MasterGunner01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Redcitizen; blueyon; KitJ; T Minus Four; xzins; CMS; The Sailor; ab01; txradioguy; Jet Jaguar; ...

Active Duty ping.


32 posted on 03/24/2015 10:29:53 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Buffalo Head

Different rifling twists? On a round?

Never seen a rifled round. Have seen many rifled bullets after they had been fired and picked up their twists from going through the barrel.

I’m talking same round, same powder and two different barrel lengths.


33 posted on 03/25/2015 4:13:47 AM PDT by PeteB570 ( Islam is the sea in which the Terrorist Shark swims. The deeper the sea the larger the shark.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: expat2
...because their .303 ammo already tumbled upon impact.

Once smokeless powders and spitzer bullets allowed velocities above 2400 fps, it was discovered that bullets would tumble on inpact, and designing to maximize that effect began.

34 posted on 03/25/2015 11:58:09 AM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-34 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson