Posted on 11/24/2015 7:17:17 AM PST by Biggirl
President Vladimir Putin has accused Turkey of funding ISIS, and using its military to protect the terrorist organisation, after a Russian fighter jet was shot down near the Syrian border on Tuesday morning. The two-pilot Sukhoi Su-24 jet was shot down by F-16 fighter planes just after 9am this morning, after it violated Turkish airspace and ignored nearly a dozen warnings by the military, Ankara officials said.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
“No, no actually they could not.”
Ok, I’ll bet ya a dollar.. I’ll take the Ruskie’s..
one week - it’s over...
Are we talking sovereign countries and border violations? And Obama and you acting all concerned for Turkish borders when our own are violated routinely and have been for decades?
Since the U.S. government is aiding and abetting the epic violent invasions of the U.S., is it outside the realm of possibility Obama is also funding and supporting ISIS and radical Islam?
You use the same tactics as Obama. If you are against the Iran deal, you are with the hardliners in Tehran. If you are against Obama's policies re the refugees, you are helping ISIS recruiting.
Being against Putin does not mean I support Obama.
“You can’t be this ignorant.”
No, I am not, but obviously you are!
They are not tactics. Obama agrees with Turkey’s actions, and it appears you agree with Obama. No?
***from Russian supplied reactors? Cause that’s real life.***
No REAL life is American supplied reactors. American money, and American protection from Israel. Instead of dealing with what if’s, let’s deal with some reality.
I don’t know if we are working with Russia, behind Russia, I don’t know what the hell we are doing but I do know we are neck deep in helping spreading radical Islam all over the world while simultaneously setting it on fire by half of our government toppling other governments and colluding with the enemy while the other half sits on their hands and waits for their bank accounts to fill up.
Not quite. The Russians are bombing the shit out of ISIS, and you, Obama and Turkey seem to be supporting ISIS. It is what it is.
You thinking Russia is somehow scared of Turkey is outright laughable! And NATO isn’t going to come to Turkey’s defense, either. Before it’s over with, if those idiotic NATO countries keep taking in “refugees” their going to be begging Putin for help.
That isn't name calling. I am comparing your criticisms of NATO with those used by the Communists during the Cold War.
I probably have as much NATO experience as you do.
I served in one NATO command--AFSOUTH Naples. And you?
Let me ask - what Is your justification for the continued existence of NATO? Russia itself, or is it Putin?
The Parties to this Treaty reaffirm their faith in the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and their desire to live in peace with all peoples and all governments. They are determined to safeguard the freedom, common heritage and civilisation of their peoples, founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law. They seek to promote stability and well-being in the North Atlantic area. They are resolved to unite their efforts for collective defence and for the preservation of peace and security. They therefore agree to this North Atlantic Treaty
why was NATO then expanded in the 1990's after the fall of the Soviet Union - When Russia was on its knees?
With the liberation of many European nations after the fall of the Soviet Union, many of these countries lobbied heavily to join NATO to preserve their new found freedom. They realized that one day Russia would get back off its knees and seek to enslave them once again. Russia was actually invited be an observer nation.
If it is Russia itself, then you are saying the country is inherently evil regardless of the government or whether they are Marxist or not - and therefore never can be trusted, and will always be an enemy.
Another strawman. Russia has suffered under authoritarian rule for centuries. Unlike Japan, which had the benefit of benign US occupation, Russia has been unable to throw off the yoke of despotism. They need a democratic reformation. They are not a permanent enemy. Russians share a similar European culture and heritage. The Communists made the gulf wider and Putin has not helped.
BTW - that's exactly what Putin tells the Russians is the US and NATO's ultimate goals. So yours is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Most don't believe that crap. They see what is going on in the rest of the world. They can travel much more freely than before. The Russian people don't see Europe as the enemy. There are plenty of economic ties.
I'll say it again - Western Europe, to source of Western Christian Culture, is committing social suicide, under the cover of the present monetary and security system of which NATO is a part. This time, it is not caused by Russia.
Another strawman. Who said the decline of Europe or the US for that matter, is due to Russia? NATO existed before the EU. The US and Canada are members of NATO.
It may be happening. During the Cold War, up until around the late 70's (when they stopped in order to open up trade and diplomatic relations with the non-communist Southeast Asian countries), the Chinese spent billions (back when a billion dollars was real money) funding communist guerrilla movements around the world, including periods when their domestic population was hungry or starving to death by the millions. Today, the Chinese obviously have a lot more money to throw around, now that they've discarded central economic planning.
Much as I dislike he at least has balls Obama does not.
“You believe Obama/U.S., are genuinely concerned about Russia violating Turkey’s borders as our own sovereign borders get violated 10,000 times per day? Really?”
I don’t believe Obama gives two craps about Turkey. I also believe that the Russians violated Turkish territory because they’ve been routienly playing the same games in Eastern Europe. Ultimately, Turkey responded as they repeatedly said they would, and frankly there’s not a single damn thing the Russians will do about it. They can’t afford a direct conflict with Turkey, because they can’t effectively operate in the Mediterranean without Turkey’s consent. Turkey controls the Bospurus and Dardanelles, the Black Sea Fleet can’t move and Russia can’t easily resupply their base in Tartus if Turkey bans their ships from the straits. Russia will back down here, because it’s stupid for them to do anything else. Turkey didn’t stab Russia in the back. Turkey hates Russia more so than any NATO member other than Poland. It’s not their fault if Russia forgot that they’re not friends. Erdogan hates Obama as well. This has nothing to do with us. Everything isn’t about us and our silly administration.
I haven’t believed a damn thing our version of pravda says since the “one” came onto the scene.
"Your country just got bombed 45 minutes ago and turned into a sea of glass"
***If the United States wanted to we could clear Russian aircraft out of Syria in a weekend.***
But that’s the part you don’t seem to understand. They don’t want to. They instead want to warn our enemy ahead of time they are going to be bombed to give them time to flee. Luckily they didn’t get ready to bomb our pilots out of the sky during their 45 minute warning.
And maybe you need to grab a history book. The Turks could teach IS a thing or two on torture and murder. Armenian Christians ring a bell to you? And this Ottoman Empire is what Erdogan wants to bring back, only he wants to be head of the Caliph, the next Mohammed. This is what you so vehemently support.
So which is worse, an ex KGB commie or the guy who wants to be the next Mohammed and his delusional, narcissistic world burning, IS creating friend Obama?
Russia and Turkey were on opposite sides in the Crimean War and World War I. Turkey was in the NATO camp during the Cold War. Both countries have leverage on the other. Turkey controls the Bosporus Straits, the primary sea route into Russia. Russia supplies the majority of Turkey's natural gas.
Beyond Putin's bluster, attacking Turkey could provoke NATO intervention. Ukraine and the Baltic States could then become a second front. No one, NATO, Turkey, or Russia, is in any condition to start what cannot be finished well.
This is the first time since the 1950s that a Russian or Soviet military aircraft has been publicly acknowledged to have been shot down by a NATO country.
Agree, this is precisely why Russia will do nothing militarily significant to retaliate against the downing of their fighter bomber.
Russia could not "roll over" Turkey in a day, a week, a month or even more as many Putinista's here seem to think. If Russia wanted a shooting war with Turkey, they'd need months to gear up just to start it - and they'd likely get bogged down quickly. At the height of the Soviet Union's power they MIGHT have been able to send enough troops and tanks to overwhelm the Turks for some time - but currently there is zero chance of that.
And obviously NATO does not want a shooting war with Russia. If they were willing to risk such a thing, they'd have sent in troops to help the Ukrainian government beat back Russian supplied rebels and Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine.
Here’s hoping Vladimir Vladimirovich realizes the p_Resident is no longer our “favorite” to live in the White Hut. Perhaps he can suggest that the Congress do its constitutional duty and impeach the boy.
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