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Snowden: FBI's claim it can't unlock the San Bernardino iPhone is 'bull****' (VIDEO)
The Guardian ^ | Wednesday 9 March 2016 06.30 EST | By Samuel Gibbs

Posted on 03/11/2016 1:11:35 PM PST by Swordmaker

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To: Idaho_Cowboy

“Could you imagine the media uproar if the thing were really secure. Every hour would have new updates about how terrorist might be using these phones and how we need to make people safe.”

Nope. The Feds would simply stop by Apple in secret and say “Nice encryption you got there. It’d be a shame if you got in trouble for helping terrorists. Put this patch in the next update and we got a story that will help both of us...”


21 posted on 03/11/2016 1:38:21 PM PST by varyouga
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel

“A large percentage of “real” Americans are unemployed and cannot afford to defend themselves in court.”

Sorry...meant the courts will sort out the 4th amendment issue. I thought we all had a right to counsel? that gone away, too?


22 posted on 03/11/2016 1:39:05 PM PST by jessduntno ("Where the Hell do you put the bayonet?" - Gen. "Chesty" Puller, at a flamethrower demonstration.)
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To: Williams

What you said (i.e., you are correct).


23 posted on 03/11/2016 1:39:59 PM PST by piytar (http://www.truthrevolt.org/videos/bill-whittle-number-one-bullete)
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To: Swordmaker

Thanks for explaining.


24 posted on 03/11/2016 1:40:12 PM PST by STARLIT ((Tea Partier))
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To: jessduntno

My thought is that most “regular” Americans can’t afford counsel to avoid the labyrinth that the court system has become.

It’s sad but, even I fear having to defend myself for a simple civil infraction. Even if I win, I’ll pay a lawyer 25K.


25 posted on 03/11/2016 1:43:40 PM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations: The acronym defines the science.)
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To: Swordmaker

so what’s the charade for then?


26 posted on 03/11/2016 2:09:17 PM PST by MNDude (God is not a Republican, but Satan is certainly a Democrat.)
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To: jessduntno

“I am not one of those. I just think that when ISIS slaughters a dozen or so people and we trying to find more info, that is probably NOT the best time to question the correctness of lawful search and seizure laws. “

So for expediencies sake, let’s just let the FBI compromise the security of ALL of our iPhones, is that it? Apple will prevail in court because the Constitution does’t allow involuntary servitude, which is what would happen if Apple were forced to write enabling code to allow access to the iPhone in question. Give the sad state of affairs of what used to be our government, I’d rather take my chances with the terrorists than let the goverment intrude, whenever the mood strikes them, into my private information. And while your ruminating over all of this, you might want to consider why our “government” chose to violate our own laws regarding the issuance of marital visa. This woman, under current law, was barred from entering this country no matter who wanted to “marry her!”


27 posted on 03/11/2016 2:17:28 PM PST by vette6387 (Obama can go to hell!)
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To: vette6387

“So for expediencies sake, let’s just let the FBI compromise the security of ALL of our iPhones, is that it?”

Nope, just the one. That one narrowly defined, legally written by a judge request was all the court order was for. What MIGHT happen after that isn’t part of my statement. Take that up with a gypsy or a fortune teller.

This is making great theater for all the drama queens out there, though.


28 posted on 03/11/2016 2:20:19 PM PST by jessduntno ("Where the Hell do you put the bayonet?" - Gen. "Chesty" Puller, at a flamethrower demonstration.)
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To: jessduntno

“That one narrowly defined, legally written by a judge request was all the court order was for.”

Once the software that would back door this particular phone was written, it would change the whole picture, then the government could demand it for accessing future ipones used in criminal activities. Sorry, I guess you are one of the few who still trusts your government. It must be lonely for you. And the fact that you don’t care about what might happen in the future tells me you haven’t a clue. BTW, the government isn’t a fortune teller.


29 posted on 03/11/2016 2:25:53 PM PST by vette6387 (Obama can go to hell!)
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To: Swordmaker

Isn’t Snowden a thief under the color of whistleblower on the lamb versus a SME on hacking anything shy of a hairball ?

Just asking......


30 posted on 03/11/2016 2:28:57 PM PST by Squantos ( Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet ...)
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To: vette6387
"...then the government could demand it..."

Yeah, well if chickens had lips they could whistle instead of cluck. What the hell are the Apple heads so scared of? Eventually, they are going to HAVE to go to court. They know it. You know it. You guys on here must be holding a lot of stock.

I think trying to cash in on the deaths of all those people is horrifyingly bad form. There were many other cases they could have pushed, but theatrically, Timmy needed a big splash. Good luck.

31 posted on 03/11/2016 2:32:16 PM PST by jessduntno ("Where the Hell do you put the bayonet?" - Gen. "Chesty" Puller, at a flamethrower demonstration.)
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To: varyouga
As I said from the start- it’s a charade to convince idiot criminals to use the Apple system without any additional encryption. It’s the most popular phone and would give the feds the most easy access to the most people.

if you think that, how do you explain why all of Apple's competitors jumped on the bandwagon to support Apple? Other makers of cellular phones are NOT going to push Apple products, varyouga.

Here's how Apple's bat-signal united the entire tech industry against the FBI


By Seth Fiegerman — Mashable—March 6, 2016


image: STEVEN SENNE/AP PHOTO

Aaron Levie didn't realize just how big of a fight was brewing when Apple stood up to an FBI request to crack a gunman's iPhone.

"At first, the reaction was, okay, wow, this is going to be a difficult conversation between Apple and the FBI," Levie, the CEO and cofounder of Box, an online file storage service, told Mashable in an interview. "Then two or three hours later, you realize that actually this is going to be a difficult conversation for the tech industry."

"And then a day or two later," he added, "you realize this is going to be a difficult global conversation."

Levie's series of realizations mirrors that of the technology industry more broadly. In the first hours and days after Apple rejected a court order to unlock an iPhone belonging to one of the gunmen behind the mass shooting in San Bernardino, tech executives struggled to understand the full implications of Apple's very public battle with the FBI — then labored over the best possible legal and PR response while media scrutiny on the case mounted.

On Thursday night, after weeks of hedged statements and rumored misgivings about the controversial case, dozens and dozens of Silicon Valley's most prominent businesses spoke up loudly and in unison by filing joint legal briefs in court to support the company just before the deadline.

Apple's long list of backers combined old industry stalwarts like Microsoft, Intel and Cisco with flashy billion-dollar startups like Snapchat and Airbnb. It brought together fierce rivals like Google and Amazon, Facebook and Twitter. And it spanned industry trade groups, privacy organizations and more than 30 law professors. 

The calvary had finally arrived at the last possible moment. All it took was a nearly unprecedented amount of coordination between fierce competitors, internal debates over the PR optics for each business and reams of old-fashioned paperwork that barely made it to the court in time.


Dozens of technology companies, large and small, officially filed in court this week to back Apple in its high-profile fight with the FBI.
Image: mashable composite

'Safety in numbers'

Hours after Apple announced its challenge to the court order, two technology companies reached out to the legal team that ultimately put together the joint amicus brief eventually signed by Google, Facebook, Yahoo and others, according to sources intimately familiar with the filing process.

Both companies were interested in making a similar argument: that law enforcement was pushing for "extraordinary" powers, which should only be achieved through legislators in Congress rather than the courts.  

That kicked off a frantic high-stakes effort to see if they could put together a lengthy and compelling legal argument on a tight deadline in the face of fiercely divided public opinion, while simultaneously working to build a meaningful coalition of supporters in the industry so no single business would have to go it alone.

"There’s always safety in numbers," says Stephen Vladeck, professor of law at American University. "The industry-wide support for Apple’s position has made it easier for individual firms to take firmer public positions against the government."

Easier, yes, but still risky. 


Apple Senior Vice President and General Counsel Bruce Sewell, listens at left as FBI Director James Comey testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, March 1, 2016, before the House Judiciary Committee hearing on 'The Encryption Tightrope: Balancing Americans' Security and Privacy.'
Image: Jose Luis Magana/ap photo

The slow march into battle

By most accounts, it was the FBI, not Apple, that picked the public battleground for this fight. 

Apple reportedly asked the FBI to file its request for a special tool to get into the shooter's iPhone under seal so the ensuing debate could be had in private. The FBI declined, suggesting that the agency believed this case, with its significant human cost and clear national security issues, was the best one possible to make a public stand against unfettered privacy and encryption. 

Apple, already burned once by the NSA revelations and eager to preserve an image as a defender of user privacy, saw little choice but to take a strong public stance in response. Its peers in the tech industry, however, were weary of rushing out with ill-considered public statements.

"What you’ve seen play out over the past two weeks is a concerted effort of trying to figure out both the legal elements of this case, the technology elements of this case and what the right kind of balance and message is given the difficulty of the situation," Levie says.

Numerous public and private technology companies stayed quiet for the first 24-48 hours when asked for comment by Mashable. Many of those who did speak either did so through third-party groups or through carefully-worded statements from top execs that stopped short of providing clear backing to either Apple or the FBI.

Several tech companies, as Mashable previously reported, have pending legal cases of their own as well as lucrative sales relationships with government offices that could be compromised by speaking out to boldly against the FBI. 

The best, and perhaps only reasonable, option took hold by the end of the first week: stand together with a collective legal filing.

"It wasn't clear in the beginning that it was even possible," says Paul Sieminski, general counsel for Automattic, the billion-dollar startup that owns Wordpress, and which joined with Twitter, Airbnb and others on a separate amicus brief filed in support of Apple. 

The concern was that there wouldn't be enough time to organize a joint filing. But once Congress invited representatives from Apple and the FBI to testify in court, the deadline was pushed back to March 3. 

From there it was go, go, go.

"It takes a week or two to write a 25-page legal brief. That's why there was a period of silence," Sieminski says. "Behind the scenes, all the lawyers were in touch," he adds. Even those from Apple.

Apple, in short, knew it was not alone.


"A word cloud of terms highlighted in more than half a dozen blog posts from technology companies on Thursday night announcing support of Apple." Image: mashable

Down to the wire

Facebook, Google, Twitter and others teased plans last week to back Apple with amicus briefs, but in conversations with Mashable at the time, the companies remained unclear about the specifics.

The clock kept ticking, yet no filings appeared throughout the first half of this year.

After the brief was filed on Thursday, one source close to Google admitted that just getting all the companies on board and determining the precise wording that would be agreeable to all took a lot of time and energy.

It turns out out there was another kink in the plans: the courthouse where the amicus briefs needed to be filed does not accept electronic filings. 

So the brief, and its subsequent revisions, had to be handled on actual paper — an ironic outcome.

As one source close to the filing process put it in an interview, "The biggest technology case in our lifetime — and it was all paper."


32 posted on 03/11/2016 2:35:16 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue..)
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To: varyouga
Nope. The Feds would simply stop by Apple in secret and say “Nice encryption you got there. It’d be a shame if you got in trouble for helping terrorists. Put this patch in the next update and we got a story that will help both of us...”

True, I never give evil enough credit for being subtle.
33 posted on 03/11/2016 2:36:16 PM PST by Idaho_Cowboy (I Samuel 8:19-20 The New Spirit of America?)
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To: Swordmaker

“By most accounts, it was the FBI, not Apple, that picked the public battleground for this fight.”

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


34 posted on 03/11/2016 2:40:33 PM PST by jessduntno ("Where the Hell do you put the bayonet?" - Gen. "Chesty" Puller, at a flamethrower demonstration.)
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To: Swordmaker

I didn’t realize that Snowden was the Einstein of all things digital? Must have some great reading material in Russia.


35 posted on 03/11/2016 2:57:58 PM PST by Cyman
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To: MNDude
so what’s the charade for then?

Why do you believe Snowden? He left before the encryption of iOS devices was even developed. The iPhone 5S and 5C which had the encryption levels were are talking about were released by Apple on September 10, 2013. Snowden fled to Hong Kong with all of his document dumps, which were nowhere near up-to-date, on May 20, 2013, four months before. The iPhone 5C in question is loaded with iOS 9, which uses even more advanced code, from more than two years AFTER Snowden flew the coop. There is no reason to think he has any clue at all about what the FBI's capabilities are relating to these new technologies that were not even developed at the time he left.

The two documents he had that related to Apple were not very informative. One was a photocopy of an early document about a local area exploit that referred to placing a hardware chip in an iPhone to compromise it, and recommending working on making it a software based, remote exploit for the future. The date on that paper was ten months after the first iPhone was released, October 2007. The second was a PowerPoint slide about the members of the NSA's PRISM program. . . which listed the dates of each member's joining PRISM. . . and Apple, who has continually denied every joining, was listed on this slide, but only as a FUTURE joiner—with a parenthetical target date more than 1 ½ years later than the last addition—with the date format different than all the others— the NSA management projected Apple would be coming on board, not that Apple was THEN a member, like the others. Apple continually stated they refused to open iPhones and computers to access to the NSA's probing.


PRISM SLIDE

Apple continues to this day with its categorical denials of any participation in PRISM.

Many people think that PRISM was a hoax. Look at what the yearly cost to run PRISM on the slide is claimed to be: $20 million. That's chicken feed for a government program.

36 posted on 03/11/2016 3:06:18 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue..)
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To: jessduntno
“By most accounts, it was the FBI, not Apple, that picked the public battleground for this fight.”

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

In other words, you don't believe that. The evidence is there. The FBI went to Magistrate Judge Sheri Pym, got the Court Order and held a press conference saying Apple had refused to cooperate at all in the case, a complete untruth. . . all without bothering to mention the court date or even the plan to get a court order to Apple. At the same time, the Director of the FBI was tweeting about it. Apple found out about the Court Order when NEWS reporters were calling asking for their reaction, just as an FBI agent was serving them with the order.

37 posted on 03/11/2016 3:18:22 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue..)
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To: Cyman
I didn’t realize that Snowden was the Einstein of all things digital? Must have some great reading material in Russia.

He talks a good game, doesn't he?

38 posted on 03/11/2016 3:20:00 PM PST by Swordmaker (This tag line is a Microsoft insult free zone... but if the insults to Mac users continue..)
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To: Swordmaker
A thought popped into my mind...If people are suing the gun industry for making guns that helped cause the death of the children at Sand Hook would not the same avenue be available for the survivors and family of San Bernadino mass murders with Apple?

A not even smart lawyer can make the connection with the terrorists use of their Apple phones as an instrument used that directly( and could not have happened without using those phones because of their STAUNCH encryption safeguards) caused the death of those people celebrating Christmas

39 posted on 03/11/2016 3:36:55 PM PST by Cyman
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To: Williams

Exactly. The idea the gvt can’t get in that phone is ludicrous. Its all about changing the law and putting the last nails in privacy. Of course, Apple is hypocritical too, but in this case they are doing the right thing...but they don’t in other cases/ways..


40 posted on 03/11/2016 4:50:02 PM PST by Crimson Elephant
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