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Rep. Steve King Defends Confederate Flag On Desk: Slavery Just 'Small Part' Of Civil War
http://www.rightwingwatch.org ^ | 7/15/2016

Posted on 07/15/2016 8:35:11 PM PDT by ObamahatesPACoal

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To: Ohioan

True. I never understand people who war with the past. There are people I admire from that period and people who I dislike. But hatred? And wishing death on people already dead, lol? Not so much!


61 posted on 07/18/2016 7:50:16 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard the Third: With my own people alone I should like to drive away the Muslims)
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To: Ohioan

I believe all of Marx’ articles for Horace Greeley’s New York Tribune are archived at

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/newspapers/new-york-tribune.htm

Some are laugh out loud (unintentionally) funny and some are actually pretty sharp.


62 posted on 07/18/2016 12:07:53 PM PDT by hlmencken3 (I paid for an argument, but you're just contradicting!)
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To: Tau Food
Southerners celebrate Nat Turner Day on October 2 (his birthday). As you know, he was executed in Jerusalem when he was 31 years old.

Are you as stupid as you sound?

I am a Southerner, born in the heart of Dixie and raised in the deep south. I have never heard of your so called "Nat Turner Day!"

I also know nothing about an execution in Jerusalem but for the only one that matters! What other generalizations do you make about my heritage?

Let me try it on you. Only gangsters and whores live in Nevada. Do you keep a derringer in your g-string?

63 posted on 07/18/2016 12:27:23 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken! - vote Trump 2016)
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To: Rockingham
I submit that is a different and better thing than descendant of slaveholders arguing that no, really, the Confederacy was not at all about slavery.

You were on a roll until you got to this vapid judgement. Any Southerner, slaveholder or not might choose to fight against a Northern Army of invasion.

64 posted on 07/18/2016 1:07:03 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken! - vote Trump 2016)
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To: wardaddy

Amen wardaddy.


65 posted on 07/18/2016 2:15:11 PM PDT by mrsmel (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: higgmeister
I am not trying to speak for you personally. Only you know what day you celebrate Nat Turner Day and I don't want to criticize you for your choice. I was just talking about Southerners generally when I mentioned October 2. You can celebrate it on whatever day you like best.

You may not know anything about Jerusalem but I suspect you have just forgotten what you have been taught. Where do you think Nat Turner died? Go ahead and check again so you can remind yourself about Jerusalem.

P.S. There are a few gangsters and whores in Nevada, but they are all Democrats and if we celebrated Nat Turner Day here in Nevada, I would not invite any of them.

66 posted on 07/18/2016 2:46:28 PM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: miss marmelstein; Pelham; chasio649; Ohioan

Looks like sagar got hisself a bolt

Don’t know if temp or perm

Likely the anti Trump rhetoric

Which given what’s at stake this election

Is not welcome here

We already have the GOPe for that


67 posted on 07/18/2016 4:14:05 PM PDT by wardaddy (black lives kill....and kill....and kill.....like no other race today senselessly)
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To: wardaddy

Oh, really? Shortly after he wished dead Confederates dead? LOL!


68 posted on 07/18/2016 5:20:41 PM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard the Third: With my own people alone I should like to drive away the Muslims)
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To: wardaddy; miss marmelstein; chasio649; Ohioan

‘Looks like sagar got hisself a bolt’

Nah, that “suspension” page is a fake that he put up himself. He’s still very much alive and well.


69 posted on 07/18/2016 5:39:51 PM PDT by Pelham (Barack Obama, representing Islam since 2008)
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To: higgmeister
You are substituting individual motives in fighting for the Confederacy for the reason why the Confederacy was created in the first place. And on that point, the respect due truth obliges even the descendants of Confederates to recognize that the Confederacy was founded to protect slavery. That is what the Secessionists said at the time, with the post war "Lost Cause" myth meant to obscure that, for the hope of keeping slavery, the South's leaders wrecked their society and squandered rivers of blood and hundreds of thousands of lives.

With some qualifications, I nevertheless respect the old memorials and commemoration of Confederates scattered about the South. Look closely at the inscriptions, and one finds that the Confederate soldier statue at the courthouse or city hall or in the town square was usually donated by people trying to remember and honor not distant ancestors but their sons, brothers, fathers, and grandfathers.

I like Rep. Steve King but think that he is being foolish and provocative in displaying even a small Confederate flag and then arguing the Lost Cause myth when it is challenged. He reminds me of the descendant of Lincoln conspirator Lewis Powell whom I know. Now quite elderly, hard of hearing, and absurdly garrulous, he brings up the Confederacy, the Civil War, and the Lincoln assassination to strangers in restaurants or at public meetings, even arguing in favor of the conspirators.

Instead, why not see the facts of history as they are? And honor your ancestors without necessarily taking up their causes? As for the Confederacy, it was a bad cause that drew upon the loyalty and sacrifices of good men and women. Thus it is said that through its history and literature, the South contributes to America a maturing understanding of tragedy and loss, while the South's stubborn and flamboyant fighting spirit is incorporated into the American military of today.

Why not talk of that instead of regurgitating the Lost Cause myth? Or talk of how many former Confederates eventually became sincere advocates of regional and racial reconciliation? And if we take their example seriously, why flaunt the Confederate flag, the symbol of support for slavery and White supremacy?

70 posted on 07/18/2016 7:52:09 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham
Instead, why not see the facts of history as they are? And honor your ancestors without necessarily taking up their causes?

I am not taking up their lost causes. I am imploring we leave our ancestors buried after 150 years. You can no more ascribe motives and causes through the myopic lens of history than you can fathom the mysteries of God.

My Great Grandfather fought in the 29th Alabama Infantry Regiment, Company C. His Grandfather fought in the American Revolution with Colonel Campbell's riflemen at The Battle of Cowpens and The Battle of Guilford Court House. To you, one Revolution is OK, the other is not. To them, they each knew they were fighting against tyrannical oppression.

My Great Grandfather became an American citizen again after the war and does not have a Confederate flag on his grave. He does have a US Federal marker at the foot of his grave recognizing his military service as a veteran. The anti-Confederate smear campaign is a political campaign to denigrate Southern heritage. Your posturing and rationalization is quite transparent.

...the South's leaders wrecked their society and squandered rivers of blood and hundreds of thousands of lives.

That makes as much sense as your family trying to keep your brother from leaving home and shooting him dead to make sure he doesn't.

The South left the Union, the North did not let them go and proceeded to send Armies down to subjugate the South, yet you have the gall to blame the South for the bloodshed. Go sell your turnips somewhere else.

71 posted on 07/19/2016 5:21:01 AM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken! - vote Trump 2016)
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To: higgmeister; Rockingham

Meanwhile, the north is falling apart and the South has risen again


72 posted on 07/19/2016 5:25:19 AM PDT by bert ((K.E.; N.P.; GOPc;WASP ....Opabinia can teach us a lot)
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To: hlmencken3
Interesting. I have bookmarked the archive; though not sure of what future use it might have.

But thanks for the link.

73 posted on 07/19/2016 7:06:02 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: higgmeister; Rockingham
To you, one Revolution is OK, the other is not. To them, they each knew they were fighting against tyrannical oppression.

Except there was no "tyrannical oppression" - other than what the slavocracy imposed upon their chattel. I see nothing that is denigrating of southern heritage in what Rockingham has posted - quite the opposite he shows deference to the memory of gallant soldiers fighting in the defense of their homelands.

74 posted on 07/19/2016 9:57:41 AM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: bert

I hope you do think that one day soon, the North will even regret freeing the slaves. Your comment aside, we are one country and there is no North and South in the sense of separate destinies.


75 posted on 07/19/2016 11:12:48 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: higgmeister
Would you also say a few words in defense of Nazi Germany if you had a great grandfather who had been a Wehrmacht soldier in WW II? The temptation and error in such cases is to let family antecedents distort one's view of history. The better course is to study and evaluate history without trying to justify what one's ancestors believed and did. Except in extreme cases, one should honor them simply because they are your ancestors.

Just what "tyrannical oppression" did the North threaten the South with in 1860? Nothing, really, other than the undermining of slavery and ensuing changes to the South's culture, economy, and social system. That was the cause that led to secession and the formation of the Confederacy. And as for South independence and slavery being distinct causes, the Confederate leadership rejected proposals for wartime emancipation as a way to win the Civil War.

When one such proposal in the Virginia legislature became public, a major Southern newspaper published a letter to the editor denouncing the very idea in terms that could not be disputed: "If this war is not about keeping our n***ers, then what are we fighting about?" All proposals for Southern emancipation fell by the wayside against that objection.

76 posted on 07/19/2016 11:33:34 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham
Would you also say a few words in defense of Nazi Germany if you had a great grandfather who had been a Wehrmacht soldier in WW II?

Would you continue to disparage Able's progeny if you were the spawn of Cain? Your pathetic attempt to compare the Southern states with Nazism is beyond the pale.

Can't you even see that you are reverse engineering history? No one today can possibly comprehend the contemporaneous thoughts, motivations, experiences, or beliefs of 150 years ago. People lived then as their parents had lived and their parents before them. Your attempt to ascribe our modern values to generations long past and judge them with 20/20 hindsight is a fools errand. You may continue your quest without me.

77 posted on 07/19/2016 1:38:22 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken! - vote Trump 2016)
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To: higgmeister
I did not compare the South or the Confederacy with Nazi Germany. I was trying to get you to recognize that blindly embracing the views and actions of ancestors can make one an advocate for foolish and even reprehensible things like secession for the sake of slavery. In fairness to you, you got on that bus without quite realizing that was its destination. Now that you see where you have arrived, you might want to rethink the trip.

We can and should judge the past on its own terms. Toward that end, historians look at, among other things, how those in the past understood and presented their ideas and actions. After about 1750, mass literacy and wide scale printing mean that as to great events, we can often read what a great many people had to say for themselves.

As to the issue at hand, when the historical evidence is examined, the Lost Cause defense of the Confederacy must be rejected as an artifice built on falsehoods. The Confederacy was about preserving slavery. It was not a noble cause, but the defense of the Confederacy evoked the sacrifices of a great many noble men and women. I submit that those men and women and their sacrifices deserve memorialization and recognition as part of our national history even though we must mark the Confederacy as an unworthy cause.

78 posted on 07/19/2016 2:57:54 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham
I was trying to get you to recognize that blindly embracing the views and actions of ancestors can make one an advocate for foolish and even reprehensible things like secession for the sake of slavery.

How dare you imply that I could ever believe in holding my fellow man in bondage! I have not embraced and never would embrace the views and actions of my ancestors regarding slavery and you are a clueless idiot if you think I ever would.

If you wish to judge the antebellum South, explain why the United States of America was the only nation in the civilized world that went to war with up to a million and a half casualties to end Slavery. All the blame for that falls on the North for its unconstitutional invasion of the Southern states. Eighty percent of the battles of the War Between the States were fought in Southern territory.

I never attempted to present a glorious "lost cause" defense of the Confederacy. I only ever presented the belief that a Confederate Flag over the graves of Confederate Soldiers killed in battle is the only and final appropriate place for it.

I also know that none of us in our age can truly put ourselves in the minds and hearts of our long past generations. Even today we have great divides among ourselves such as the Second Amendment, the death penalty, energy policy, taxation, education choice, activist judges, religious liberty, tort reform, national defense, law enforcement and public safety. Try to put yourself in the minds of a century and a half from now and think of how you may be judged. No doubt some self important jerk will have many intellectual opinions regarding the immoral scandalous hateful barbarians of the past.

Just to add a little punctuation on my final response to you:

DO STATES HAVE A RIGHT OF SECESSION?

79 posted on 07/19/2016 9:55:39 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken! - vote Trump 2016)
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To: higgmeister
One who has been sprayed by a skunk may become inured to the smell, but everyone else swiftly recognizes it. Whether you realize it or not, the Confederacy is widely and correctly seen by the American public as founded on and as an exponent of slavery. Align yourself with the Confederacy and you acquire the odor of being sympathetic to slavery, even if covertly.

Arguing for a "right of secession" is deeply misguided. No such right is stated in the Constitution, and even in 1860, any bid for secession had to be expected to be disputed and to lead to Civil War. So, no, there was no right to secession, and especially so because the cost of secession would be so catastrophic.

80 posted on 07/20/2016 8:42:56 AM PDT by Rockingham
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