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White House Cuts Aerial Refueling From New Air Force One
Popular Mechanics ^

Posted on 09/27/2017 3:52:26 PM PDT by JP1201

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To: KC-10A BOOMER
I think this is a really bad idea as a former Boom Operator on KC-135 and KC-10 tankers. In the event of a National Emergency the capability to stay airborne for an indefinite amount of time an/or increased range due to air refueling capability is a nice option to have.

Exactly what I was thinking. I was under the impression that AF1 and AF2 were like the second offices for the President and VP when times were bad. Unless their strategy now has changed to fly to a place and go underground and they can get to that place anywhere in the world on a tank of fuel.

I am no plane jockey but I do not think that is feasible unless extra fuel tanks are designed into the frame

21 posted on 09/27/2017 4:31:31 PM PDT by eartick (Been to the line in the sand and liked it, but ready to go again)
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To: JP1201
General Joseph Dunford, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the highest-ranking military officer in the nation, yesterday told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the White House decided to remove aerial refueling capabilities from the new Air Force One requirements

This sounds like a dumb decision. The whole point of specialized planes for the president is to give him the ability to stay aloft, out of dangerous situations and able to make important decisions for the nation in times of war and crisis - those planes aren't just fancy ways for a president to get around. Without refueling capability, these planes can only serve as crisis command centers until they run out of fuel - if that part of their mission is not taken seriously, I'd rather every president just flew coach or chartered a used 737.
22 posted on 09/27/2017 4:45:37 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: JP1201

They can keep a spare can in the trunk.


23 posted on 09/27/2017 4:48:32 PM PDT by AmusedBystander (The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next)
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To: JP1201

I would imagine it will be capable.

Frankly, I don’t think any of its real capabilities should be discussed in open hearings


24 posted on 09/27/2017 4:52:36 PM PDT by Kakaze (I want The Republic back !)
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To: KC-10A BOOMER

Thanks for passing the gas! A long time ago I flew missions where our on load was 150,000 lbs of fuel. It took a tanker and a half, (over Spain with another rendezvous later), 25 hour flight. We had to be scraped out of the aircraft. Pretty sight to see three tankers turning in front of our two bomber cell at the ARIP.
Those were the days.


25 posted on 09/27/2017 5:07:16 PM PDT by BatGuano (You don't think I'd go into combat with loose change in my pocket, do ya?)
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To: JP1201

Strategic misjudgment here.


26 posted on 09/27/2017 5:20:44 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: JP1201

Yeah, I can’t think of any time when AF1 might need to stay airborne.

//sarcasm


27 posted on 09/27/2017 5:23:27 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (Burn. It. Down.)
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To: boomop1

- Well, I DON’T how AF1 compares in range to a commercial airliner, but I do know there are versions of the 747 that can fly nonstop from Los Angeles to Sydney.
- I know there are engineering costs for the addition of the refueling hardware, controls, and probably software.
- I know there would be costs involved with training. The AF1 crews would need to be proficient in aerial refueling, so they’d have to practice flying this type of mission. Flying takes fuel. Flying means more maintenance.
- The aerial refueling practice would have to be done at times when POTUS is not on board, so “flights to nowhere”. When POTUS wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t want to spend half the time while the crew practices its refueling skills.
- In addition to AF1, you’d have to have tankers take off and fly to meet it. Flying takes fuel... Tankers hold a lot of fuel, therefore tankers are heavy, therefore tankers don’t get very good “mileage”, therefore tankers cost a lot. Tankers have crews as well and they may need special clearance to refuel AF1. Security clearances costs money...
- Areal refueling means the planes fly on a steady course together during the fuel transfer. This means the planes are more vulnerable during that time.

And that’s about all I know about that.


28 posted on 09/27/2017 5:36:41 PM PDT by libertylover (We EXPECT RESPECT for the flag and anthem.)
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To: JP1201

Just plain dumb.


29 posted on 09/27/2017 5:39:21 PM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: DoughtyOne
If we’re talking about a situation like the one President Bush found himself in, on 09/11/2001, that refueling capability is a must.

No need for aerial refueling between Sarasota and Bossier City, nor between Bossier City and Omaha. By the time they could have gotten a tanker up from Bossier, he would have been about there anyway.

30 posted on 09/27/2017 5:44:08 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35

Thank you. I foresee a time when we may be under the threat of nuclear war.

A president may need to stay in the air for longer.

Seems to me you build in capabilities for any contingency.


31 posted on 09/27/2017 5:48:48 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (John McBane is the turd in the national puch-bowl.)
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To: libertylover

You are so full of it, said a lot of nothing. I had over 20 years in USAF and refueled 10 of them and had the top cold war security clearance, just wait until someone screams for fuel and there we were. The cost and training amount to nothing compared to an emergency, these people have to fly to keep current whether the president uses AF1 or not.


32 posted on 09/27/2017 6:04:07 PM PDT by boomop1 (Term limits is the only way to change this failed government.)
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To: JP1201

Bad idea. International flights or emergency air refueling is a critical capability.


33 posted on 09/27/2017 6:11:03 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man ( Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: eyeamok

Give them some credit. At least they debunked the 9-11 “truther” idiots.


34 posted on 09/27/2017 6:27:47 PM PDT by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: JP1201

How much does this capability cost? Isn’t this technology almost “off the shelf”?


35 posted on 09/27/2017 6:32:01 PM PDT by captain_dave
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To: Fred Hayek

Now how in the world is President Trump going to
personally bomb Pyongyange with no inflight refueling?

I mean that’s what liberals are afraid of!


36 posted on 09/27/2017 6:33:19 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: KC-10A BOOMER
I don't sleep on airplanes, with one exception. A SAC KC-135 going from Tinker to Hickam to Kadena. The crew chief allowed me to go down into your boom operator space. The nice thick pad had me sleeping most all the way. It was a great view looking backwards and down as we flew over Diamond Head.
37 posted on 09/27/2017 6:37:31 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Make US Intelligence great again!)
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To: DoodleDawg

What size film? 8mm, super 8, 35mm?


38 posted on 09/27/2017 6:40:38 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Make US Intelligence great again!)
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To: JP1201

“Proponents of the cut argue that aerial refueling is not necessary considering no president has ever used the capability, not even George W. Bush “

Air Force One air refueled when Bush made his surprise non-stop Thanksgiving day trip to Iraq.


39 posted on 09/27/2017 8:36:01 PM PDT by oldbill
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To: ASA Vet

It’s embedded in the story. Click on the link.


40 posted on 09/28/2017 3:36:24 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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