Posted on 11/17/2018 4:28:58 PM PST by NRx
Jemel Roberson was a good guy with a gun. The 26-year-old security guard at Manny’s Blue Room Lounge took up arms to defend patrons from a would-be shooter, just days after a dozen people were murdered by a gunman who had opened fire in a California bar.
A group of intoxicated men had earlier been ejected from Manny’s bar, according to local news reports. One then came back with a gun and started shooting. Roberson returned fire and was ultimately able to disarm and detain the shooter after putting his knee on the assailant’s back.
Sounds like a Second Amendment success story, the kind we are routinely told are a virtual impossibility in the wake of any mass shooting incident, as the efficacy of gun control is highlighted and “thoughts and prayers” are declared to be futile.
Except for what happened next: the police arrived and shot and killed Roberson. The suspect lives. The young black man who may have prevented the next mass shooting is dead. His nine-month-old baby now has no father.
(Excerpt) Read more at theamericanconservative.com ...
As for Castile, all I really know is that on Jun 16th 2017 it was reported: A jury found a Minnesota police officer not guilty of manslaughter in the death of a black motorist. Defense attorneys contended the 29-year-old Latino officer was scared for his life and was justified in shooting 32-year-old Philando Castile.
Since I didn't hear the case I have to take their decision as valid, but I don't know if it is. In other words I really don't know what transpired other than coverage provided by the "press". They, the press, may have presented unbiased or biased reporting. I don't know which that was either. I guess it depended on the source, as is usually the case. 8>)
The only thing I can be certain of was the tragic results for all involved. It also seemed to me that mistakes were made by both of those involved, But then again that is just my opinion.
I never thought of that before, it makes perfect sense. The more gun control, the more apt a legal owner will get killed by the cops.
When traveling we make it a point to stop in Illinois only for fuel and food. Obey the speed limit and just keep on going.
Cops need to get through their thick heads: “Citizen with gun” does NOT equal “bad guy”. The cops are making themselves into enemies of We the People. They won’t like how that turns out.
I would never want to be in law enforcement either. But my brother was for 33 years, caught a lot of bad guys during that time and never drew his gun; not once. He still had to go out and qualify with his sidearm every month, but never used it in those 33 years.
It's very basic doctrine to enter a dangerous situation like this from a defensive position: cracking the door and maintaining a defensive position until you understand what is happening. You never use deadly force until you ascertain who the bad guys are and explore other options first. You don't shoot first and ask questions later.
Law enforcement is not war and IT IS DANGEROUS TO THE COMMUNITY TO ASSUME IT IS.
Restoring peace and safety to the people of the community is your first and highest priority. Yes, you arrest the bad guys after you talk it through, but you do not enter a situation with guns blazing; innocent people are at risk.
Social skills matter but seem to take a back seat to assault tactics I think? There was a joke in our family that my big brother could strike up a conversation with a fence post. He had a gift for gab and could talk a violent situation down without shooting everyone in sight. Those communication skills must be taught to be sure that the safety of the citizenry is the highest priority.
Don't we?
This needs to be thorough;y investigated. His widow should achieve a HUGE civil award, enough to take care of her and their baby for life.
If that’s correct, it just compounds the tragedy.
How in the hell could any responding crew just open fire on a uniformed security guard? I could see if the crew was from an adjacent district and didn’t know the area or people. Even then unless the guy was not responding to verbal commands from the officers there should have been an opportunity to figure it out prior to shooting the guy.
Unfortunately, your analogy of the profession is correct. I am glad my service is behind me. The job today is just that, a job. Just another line on a resume’ that leads to another job. Couple that with the change in the promotional structure and it’s a wonder there aren’t more incidents.
bump
The only thing we know is that in hindsight a tragic end to this story is the reality. I feel for all involved. There is no action that can change the results. I'll also add, that I'm glad I am not sitting on the jury for this case too. No doubt it is going to be a tough call, and no one will probably be happy with the outcome if a trial is held, which is most likely what will happen.
Honestly, I am not completely for sure he was in uniform, there are too many mixed reports on this. This is a very important detail that needs to be clarified.
Both my Father and my Uncle were Officers. They saw it coming to this years ago and got out. They saw incompetent wrongs that they couldn’t do anything about, their hands were tied, The “he is going to cause us all trouble” warnings and observations were completely ignored.
Unfortunately, the very same thing they were worried about is now happening. When all the good pickles in the barrel turn their heads, ignore, and don’t point out those very few bad pickles, the whole barrel eventually ends up being tainted. Then that one tainted barrel becomes representative of every barrel of pickles, rotten or not.
Before these events will stop happening, the police are going to have to start policing themselves first. It is actually in their own best interests to do this in house discretely rather than to have it become a huge public event like this.
Risks and liabilities should be very serious issues to consider as a first priority. Continuing to be blind to problems is not working.
Black guy on top of other guy after midnight in a Chicago bar with a gun pointed at the guy on the ground, he has a knee in his back.
If you carry a deadly weapon and dont have a plan for what to do when the cops show up, Chances are you may be carted from the scene in a body bag.
This is plain disgusting. For once, I sympathize with any BLM demonstration that might occur, provided it stays peaceful, which it won’t.
We had that problem in our department as well.
There were always guys that you just knew where going to be a problem. Unfortunately, the city didn’t do anything during the probationary period when they could. The union wouldn’t do anything because..it’s a dues paying member. The only recourse for the line troops was to “bury” the person in a inside job or in a district where the risk to people was limited.
It wasn’t until the end of my career that the department started using FTO’s that could make recommendations during the probationary period about the unsuitability of certain officers. Then it was up to the administration and the city to address the problem. Sometimes they did, sometimes not.
I don’t mean to take issue with you, but I would guess your brother never FIRED his weapon in the 33 years he was in law enforcement. I would bet he DREW his weapon quite a few times.
We all did.
I went 20+ years and only was involved in one shooting incident. I can tell you it was the most surrealistic experience I’ve ever had. I might as well have pulled up a chair and watched it go down. You develop tunnel vision and your situational awareness is limited to a very tight area immediately in front of you.
On the contrary, I’ve been in positions to be shot at several times and fortunately, was spared becoming a statistic.
Until we know more about what actually happened during this incident, everything is speculation. However, if it occurred like the initial reports indicate, it is a tragedy on many levels. First and foremost for the victim and his family. The officer and his family, and the department he worked for. It will take a long time to reestablish trust between the department and the community going forward. If it ever can be .
Where has it been published he was uniformed? I live not too far from where this occurred. NOWHERE has it been reported locally or in the Chicago media market that I've seen that he was in uniform.
Just because someone may be in a uniform does not mean they are who that uniform represents.
Finally, if he was in fact a trained security guard (and that's in doubt locally ...) he should've known to put the gun down IMMEDIATELY once the police were on site and upon being ordered by the police to do so. The Illinois State Police investigated this shooting and concluded that there was simply no way local PD could've known Jemel was a security guard. They entered, saw an armed man, issued direct orders to put the weapon down and upon failing to follow those instructions, shot a man they believed to be an armed assailant and a danger to their own safety.
This is a tragedy all the way around and from everything I've seen and read, a tragedy that could've and should've been avoided were Jemel a formally trained security guard, which it appears he was not.
I appreciate and commend you on your honesty about this reality Sir. Far too many times in the last 20 years there has been so many conversations where there is always absolute denial that there is even a problem at all. Bad pickles just don’t exist.
I think you are absolutely right about the unions, and not just in this occupation, in all occupations where there is a union representing employees. It’s a protection racket that gives the employee a subconscious assumption that they are completely immune to consequences and accountability of their own actions. The “I can’t be fired no matter what” mentality starts to influence their actions.
Unfortunately this feeling of immunity affects very important on the job decisions and personal pride to do the best they can in performing their job. Why worry if there are almost no consequences to worry about. And this is true, these officers in this event just have to call their union legal dept and they will probably be let off the hook no matter what the situation was.
So in the bigger picture of cause and effect, the fault for these events is on both the local depts and the union. The local depts for not taking care of their employees well enough so that they do not need to join a union to get what they deserve. And the unions for supplying almost absolute immunity from consequences of personal wrong action making them legally untouchable up to, and even after a blatant event like this.
But in turn there is also the huge “public” factor in this too. The public is the jury that allow these issues to perpetuate and become more often and more common because of their own decisions in trial cases concerning these events. This factor is just recently starting to change.
I cannot agree with you more. Unfortunately, we’ve now progressed to a point where it isn’t just prevalent in the workplace anymore. It’s systemic in everyday life.
In a “civilized” society, there would be a massive uproar over the disenfranchisement of ALL Americans, regardless of political affiliation. The mere fact that there are little to no Democrats upset with the voter fraud across the country speaks volumes to where we are as a society.
As for unions, there was once a time and a place for the protection of workers. But in many instances the roles have reversed. The Union Bosses are the ones benefiting from the work of their membership, often to the members detriment. Add in the overall greed and you have a recipe for disaster.
It would be too easy to put the blame on one thing when the problems with police, fire, public safety, auto workers, teachers, (name your profession) is we have forgotten that with responsibility comes accountability. It’s just too damn easy to pass the buck.
The situation at hand is a tragedy. Hopefully, the truth will come out and whatever the outcome it reflects well on the criminal justice system. Unfortunately, there is so little faith in the system I have my doubts.
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