Posted on 12/25/2022 12:18:27 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Thanks for excellent post.
Thank you for the kind words.
Correction to my post:
I said ‘Forbes’ but the publication was The Economist (see post #40)
What’s additionally sickening is the traitors in Congress and the White House awarding Zelenksy $151 Billion tax payer dollars to date, and we will get nothing for it. It’s like flushing it down the Deep State’s toilet for distribution among them. The Globalists and Biden will get a lot of that money. No point ‘wasting it’ on a proxy war they can’t win.
Russia has been pushed back from Bakhmut. Ukraine’s Christmas present to Putin.
Ukraine is being stupid about Crimea. The Russians are as committed to keeping Crimea as the United States of America is committed to keeping Florida. They haven’t studied history very well. Now before anyone tries to paint me as a Putin supporter I’ll remind them that I have been very much condemning Putin for this War and see him as a terrible mass murderer. But this doesn’t change the facts on Russian history and their attitudes about Crimea. They clearly view it as having been stolen from them through the fall of the USSR. Crimea was Russian before the USSR. It was always Russian during the USSR. Then in the 50s it was administratively put under the Ukraine SSR and still considered Russian. And when the USSR collapsed it was still considered Russian by the Russians.
What the USA should be pushing for is to have an immediate cease-fire and agreement that all of the disputed territories will be put under some provisional neutral peacekeeping program with some target date 100-200 years from now to decide final status on whether they are part of Ukraine, part of Russia, or independent like Liechtenstein. There would need to be a large enough peacekeepers force from neutral countries at the beginning to ensure that the hostilities don’t resume and to ensure that each neighborhood, town, city, metro, and higher level jurisdiction can get back on its feet and handle matters of citizenship, elections, infrastructure development/maintenance, and eventual process on integration of either being part of Russia, Ukraine, or independent.
Unfortunately, logic/reasoning is drowned out by emotions/hysteria. When Putin decided to start this special operation of his that resulted in over 10 million Ukrainian refugees and the murder of tens of thousands of people, along with other mass destruction, he unleashed enormous amounts of emotions/hysteria of Ukrainians and others that simply can’t be turned off very easily. I think Putin is seeing the numbers and he is terrified by the possibilities on the forecasts of how many hundreds of thousands of Russian youth could be killed if he keeps this war going and he realizes that he should try to find a way to solve this logically.
What I don’t think is being considered carefully is the strong yearning of the Ukrainians to do to Russia what he has done to Ukraine this past year and how this can grossly escalate the “special military operation” into being far worse than WW1 or WW2. When Congress votes to get involved they should remember that this greatly increases the risks of NYC, DC, and other places getting pulverized by ICBM’s. How far can Putin be pushed before he really snaps? I certainly have no love or respect for Putin. But I do recognize that he’s got lots of very destructive weapons in his arsenal and he could be pushed to used them. The best way to prevent this would be if the USA had an arsenal that was modern, updated, and sufficient to counter this risk. The year 2023 could be a very devastating year if we aren’t wise and careful :(
Wrong. Look it up.
Why, Americans didn't invade Ukraine like the Russians who are robbing, raping, murdering, leveling cities, annexing land and threatening genocide.
The Ukraine will throw every last conscripted Ukrainian soldier into the fire without hesitation, even as their own head of the military states that they do not have, and cannot get, the arms and other resources needed to win.
The citizens are leaving the Ukraine in search of heat, light, water etc. But Zelensky wants to keep the donations coming, so they will wave the supposed victory in Bakhmut even as they put Odessa on the line, and grow closer to becoming a permanently landlocked nation. Nothing matters but Zelensky cleaning up as much in donations before Ukrainian defeat is too obvious to hide.
Russia is winning the war so well that they’re going to conscript 1.5 million more men.
The head of the Ukrainian military says he cannot get the resources he needs to win. Period. I guess you’re going to try to refute the head of the Ukrainian military with your superior military expertise. Maybe you can contact him, tell him he’s wrong, and tell him how to win without the resources he needs.
I’ve got a novel idea.
Vacate all foreign soil.
After you have, you can consider the negotiations over.
“so, they don’t have the “right” to just separate unilaterally ... UN rules”
One, yes they do because when the coup happened, everyone else has the same right to grab what they can by force.
Also we ratified the right to separate in Kosovo and bombed Serbia for 2 months to enforce that right.
At this moment we have broken off a part of Syria to give to an ethnic minority who is separating unilaterally.
Yes, they do indeed have a right to separate. And in any case, when you throw a coup, you do not automatically inherit everything the old government had. You take a government by force, guess what? Everyone else has that same right.
It’s no different than Kosovo or Syria, neither of which was UN approved. Someone just broke off an area and we supported them militarily. Welcome to the party.
What resources will Russia use? Where’s the 100,000 North Koreans? The 2500 Chinese tanks? Hmmmm?
You still won’t admit your own General, head of the Ukrainian military has stated he does not have the ammo/hardware/people he needs, and he knows he cannot get those resources. You’re just going to pretend he didn’t say that and continually change the subject. Then, the Ukraine is going to negotiate (hopefully) and if not they will be ground down until they surrender, and you will still deny it all and change the subject.
None of us (Very few but there are a few) can fully understand the brutality of this war. Facts are facts. If Russian wants to take Ukraine it can do so. The price is the question. The price to Ukraine has been high so far. Russia is high also. The average person in all this has and will continue to be catastrophic. We will be paying a big price in this.
I say we just go ahead and bribe our way to peace on this one. The price to continue down this path is lots and lots of death and misery.
If it ends the war, sign a cease fire. Allow Russia to continue hold on to Crimea. But withdraw troops from the occupied territories of Ukraine. Then Ukraine needs to develop nuclear weapons.
Is it wrong to plead for someone, anyone to off this Putin a-hole?
Same for Democrats. No wonder it's hard to tell the difference between Commies & Democrats.
Putin is like the little kid who decided to rob the Cookie Jar on top of the cabinets. He has climbed up and now is stuck on the counter and can’t climb down. Mommmmy, HELP! Of course I’ll help son, but first put those cookies back in the jar, you are getting crumbs all over everything.
Here is a starting proposal I submitted at another forum:
As a first condition of peace talks, there should be a cease fire and withdrawal of all Russian and Russian supporting mercenary troops. This should be supervised by an approved international body, such as United Nations peacekeepers. As the Russian leave Ukraine, including Crimea, they should pass through inspection to determine they are not leaving with stolen Washing Machines, Toilets, Refrigerators, Tractors and other Farm Equipment, etc. Also it should be determined that no Fire Engines, Ambulances, Trucks, etc. belonging to Ukraine municipalities and businesses are being removed. Finally, and most important Russia should not be removing any children, adults or Ukraine prisoners. All such who say they want to leave should be separated from their potential Russian captors and then be permitted to file separately for request to leave Ukraine for Russia or another country. These people should be housed safely and securely while these determinations and destinations are being arranged.
This proposal, rendering security for both sides, leaving each on the original territory of the two countries in 2014 must be a precondition for beginning discussion of the many other items for peace that must be negotiated.
[A cogent point raised by another comment at this post was the probable and understandable desire of Ukranians to lash back at Russia with punishment for all they have suffered this year. A far greater wrong that Ukrainians have not forgotten is Stalin’s Moldomodor, massive famine, inflicted on Ukraine decades ago which killed around 3,000,000 Ukranians by mass starvation. This is part of what motivates the incredible williness of Ukranians to persevere in this almost hopeless fight.]
“Okay, you’re going to be surprised.....VERY surprised.”
Russian troops were supposed to be dancing in the streets of Kiev 10 months ago.
The only “surprise” Putin has left is tactical nukes. And using those would indeed bring the end of “mother Russia”. At this point I’m not sure that would be an entirely bad thing.
L
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