Posted on 09/17/2001 11:15:06 AM PDT by Francohio
In re: Moderate Muslims, Moderate Islam:
Here is my personal experience. I am fortunate to have lived and worked in an Arab country. I developed a great respect for my hosts and wanted to learn Arabic. My teacher was an Egyptian engineer, who, I soon learned was also an advisor and teacher of English to many local professionals, with a reputation for wisdom and devotion to Islam.
One cannot learn Arabic without learning a great deal about Islam. When one studies Arabic in an Islamic country, the question of religion comes up frequently. This did not bother me in the least. For example, I imagine someone learning Latin in 9th Century Sweden would probably have learned a lot about Christianity and have been urged to convert. In the same way, I was asked to convert as I studied Arabic, was introduced to other westerners who had converted, and was even offered a sizable monetary bonus as an incentive! Although I was frankly flattered by the attention, I never had any intention of converting and made that abundantly clear to my teacher, whose kind attitude toward me did not change.
For a westerner to be interested in Islam is not strange. Islam is an Old Testament religion, which is well known. However, it also reveres the New, which may not be so well known. In addition to Abraham, Muslims also revere Christ as a Prophet. Some, especially in Egypt and Syria,which both have long Christian traditions, revere Mary as His Virgin Mother. Mohammed was first recognized as The Prophet by a Syrian Christian monk. Like Christ, Mohammed lived in his youth as an exile in Egypt (which had a powerful Christian Community at the time) and Ethiopia. (it is said he fathered children with a Christian woman there, named Mary!) The parallels between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam would surprise many Americans.
The Koran, and the commentaries upon it, are where Islam and the two older faiths part company to go in opposing directions. The Koran, based on the actual words of Mohammed as lived day to day, sets the tone and the attitude of the life of Islam. Many of his teachings are completely in keeping with Judaeo-Christian thought. But Mohammed's teachings about how Islam was to deal with Jews, Christians, and Pagans, are in the main, extremely severe, in many cases urging their death. There is no escaping that, no matter how moderate the Muslim.
Here is what I was told by my teacher, a good, and extremely generous man, "We all pray to the same God. Jews and Christians pray in the wrong way, which dishonors Allah. But Allah the Merciful is willing to accept you as converts. But to be against Islam is to be against Allah. Allah is patient and we realize that many must come to Islam through study. But there is a time when study must bow to surrender to Allah."
"However, if one is given many chances to come to Allah, but persists in obdurately refusing the opportunity, the patience of Allah wears out, and those who harden their hearts against Him must be punished."
Thus, a moderate Muslim is one whose patience with us has not yet worn out!
There is no one great central authority in Islam. Practices among the Sunni, Shia, and among the non-Arab Muslims are quite different, basic beliefs don't vary much amongst them, as great teachers from every group circulate and preach around the world. Among their common beliefs is that those whom they kill in the holy war, the JIHAD, will serve them as slaves forever in Paradise. The concept of universal Jihad is at the very core of Islam. A Bosnian Muslim, sipping an aperitif in a sidewalk cafe in Sarajevo, might not be very devout. At the same time, he might be harboring mujadahinn fighters, or members of the KLA. He must as a Muslim, perhaps even as an indifferent one, support the Jihad.
We Ecumenical American Christians are "live-and-let-live" crowd, who with each passing era, become less concerned with differences and more with our Christian common ground. The doctrinal differences over which our ancestors killed each other in centuries of battle, are now forgotten to the point where even the Pope has acknowledged that the Jews are our spiritual fathers, apologized to the Eastern Orthodox church, admitted that Luther had a valid doctrinal point, and regularly ordains Anglican priests into the Roman church!
Islam is completely separate from any tinge of ecumenicism, or even fellowship with other religions. In all fairness, as in any religion, there is a range of interpretation. But, at its core, Islam is not a tolerant religion, as an American would probably understand the term. To protest otherwise, as all these American Muslims are now doing, is patent nonsense. (There is no American Muslim Committee to end slavery and the slaughter of Christians in the Sudan. There is no criticism of the killing in Allah's name in East Timor, Kosovo and Macedonia, or The Phillipines. No correction of the cult of suicide in Allah's name as a road to personal salvation.)
The collective mind of Islam, which in many ways, seems curiously stuck around the 12th Century, may just be now turning to its version of the Crusades. Or perhaps, unlike us, they simply never forgot.
That Forrest Sawyer group meeting about sensitivity and feel good crap last night was laughable if not disturbing. This dirty war will not succeed under the yoke of political correctness. Our enemy has a VAST sympathetic presence in this world including our own citizens. I have heard Farakhan and the leader of the New Black Panther Party spout essentially the same vitriol. Likewise, I have read reports that Pierce and the National Alliance types are all gleeful over all of this tragedy. YES, we have many enemies and they are all around us. We must root them out here and abroad. We will take the utmost care but we cannot let the pc sensitivity that has shackled us for 20 years hinder us now.
Healing can come later. I hope our leaders can maintain course and momentum. Let's channel our anger into resolve.
Faith.
Then I sugest that you look a little harder. There are several denominations that refuse and have always refused to kill when it comes time for war. They will usually serve in some other capacity such as the medical side of the war.
I agree with DeweyCA's comments that Christian's are not to be vengeful. At the same time Christians are to seek and support justice.
In the Sermon on the Mount the context speaks of a debt or obligation. Even the If you are compelled to walk a mile, give another mile teaching has been described as set in the context of the Roman soldiers legal right to compel passers by to carry his pack a mile.
The substance of the teaching is that when you have an obligation/debt then don't just pay off the obligation or debt but go the extra mile, offer the other cheek. It goes beyond obligation to reconciliation.
While this does address "private" relationships, it does not include all private relationships. It does not address the right to self-defense. I don't think that it tells us that we are to turn the other cheek when a member of family is attacked by another in our presence.
Their is much to understand here, but a universal application of "Turn the other cheek" like "Judge not that you may not be judged" is to contradict the larger theme of "Thy Kingdom come" and the manifestation of Gods glory and character on the earth.
A dispassionate effort is worthwhile, of course.
Ah! We shall see, won't we?
And those who do fight faithfully beside us will be all right with me.
And those who don't can reap the consequences.
Islamic fundamentalists are quite willing to die for their cause. But they are not willing to see Islam die. And that is precisely what we would be threatening.
First, we DON'T NUKE MECCA!! A good deal of my strategy is banking on the probability that the nuking of MEDINA will be sufficient to convince ALL MUSLIMS that the game is over; they have no cards and need to FOLD, NOW! This horror, along with the very real and demonstrably UNPREVENTABLE threat upon Mecca should do 2 things: 1) convince ALL Muslim countries to eradicate all terrorist cells within their borders (they ALL know EXACTLY where they are) lest some loose cannon cause the utter decimation of their religion, and 2) plant HUGE seeds of doubt in the minds of Muslims everywhere about the ability of their god to prevent the infidels from doing anything -- much akin to the Japanese seeing their puny little (god) emperor signing surrender papers for Big Ole Gen. MacArthur.
We cease to use their oil, develop an exclusive western hemisphere relationship with the likes of Mexico (which has proven reserves nearly equal to that of Saudi), Venezuela, and Ecuador, for their oil products while stimulating further exploration of our own, along with research and development toward alternate energy sources. Saudi (and Gulf) oil revenues wither in absence of US consumption. Relations w/ our Latin American neighbors become cozier and more vibrant. We negotiate a price that is more than fair, and stable, disengaging them from OPEC. We offer teamwork with all 3 countries in building schools and medical infrastructure (kind of the old JFK Alliance For Progress, which died a-borning). Environmentalists lose support as our needs for new energy overwhelm them in the PR arena. Coal usage in electricity production should increase 33%, using the awesome pollutant-scrubbing technology we now have.
They kick us out? Good. Our troops are in danger over there anyway; plus we're considered pollution on their sand, even though we're just there to SAVE THEIR SHAGGY BUTTS.
We would need to remove the House of Saud first and make Saudi Arabia an American protectorate.
You know what? If all I said above should fail to meet our energy needs, what you say is do-able, and under the "Doctrine" of our wimpiest president ever -- the Carter Doctrine. In it, he actually asserted American (and Western world) "dibs" on Gulf oil, so as to keep the flow of it open, by force, if necessary. But, my theory is that it would not be needed. Here is a chance for us to "pull our horns in" a bit, and trade more locally.
Muslims in America will go beserk,...You'd have to plan on interning (or killing) 30+ million Americans...
I don't think they could do much -- partly for the same reason their Middle Eastern buddies couldn't do much: sheer terror over possibly triggering the loss of Mecca. As to 30+ million, I had no idea; I thought they were only about 1/10 that number; and here in America, they're frightened.
I KNOW what I advocate is radical; but I am positive it would work. I'm also positive that every other "solution" out there is nothing but 1) tilting at windmill symptoms or 2) abandonment of Israel to placate the rags, which is UNTHINKABLE for me.
Well, I certainly agree with that statement.
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