Honolulu-Bound Flight Diverted After Crew Discovers Box Cutter

The Associated Press ^ | AP-ES-09-30-01 2214EDT | The Associated Press

[afraidfortherepublic]

I don't think that this was the case because the letters the hijackers had reminded them to bring their knives.

But boxcutters were found on at least 3 grounded planes after the fact on September 11. Either potential hijackers quickly hid them in case they were searched when they returned to the gate after the flights were canceled, or someone hid them before the passengers boarded the plane for in-flight use later. 12 flights that returned to the gate September 12 had Arabs sitting in the jump seat in the cockpit as "courtesy guests."

[Brian Allen]

The criminally-insane; almost all appointed by -- and carried-over from -- the treasonous, lying, thieving, mass-murdering, co-serial-raping Gore/KKKli'toon "administration;" are firmly in charge of the asylum.

[TheRealLobo]

You said "But in reality, most people will probably just sit there since that is what they have been conditioned to do, thanks to the feminization of America. People are taught to "not take the law into their own hands", "call 911", "wait for the police", and "violence is bad"

You forgot the ever popular (I actually had a friend telling me this as I was reporting a burglary at a drug store on my cell phone to the cops)..."Don't get involved".

[Semaphore Heathcliffe]

"City of Dallas under martial law after stash of boxcutters found on shelf at local hardware store..."

[TheRealLobo]

You said: "One thing though, everyone talks about the box cutters and leaves out the alleged bomb that one terrorist had. That changes the parameters to some extent, if the passengers aren't aware of any building-crashing schemes. One would have to be fairly certain that the hijacker doesn't just want to land at a different locale. One could kill an entire plane-load of people if the motive is misjudged."

"One" would assume that if a person were to take a bomb on board an aircraft, said person is not trustworthy enough to take their word that they "are not going to hurt anyone." "One" would NOT be responsible if a hijacker blew up the airplane. The HIJACKER WITH THE BOMB would be responsible. If you think that complying with a hi-jackers demands is acceptable, REGARDLESS of what he SAYS he is going to do, just stand aside and let those that actually are willing to defend themselves take care of business.

[The Raven]

They (ground crew) aren't supposed to have any sharp objects either. A recent flight I was on was minus even the cork screw for the wine bottles. The flight attendents had to improvise with plastic knives.

[Star Traveler]

So, yes, for the most part we are a nation of wimps.

It's been this way forever, in history, though. It still is that way around the world. That's how bullies, thugs and dictators remain in control. It works this way. One committed and vicious person can control a very much larger group by promising (and being believed) that he can hurt or kill many of the first few that attempt to either overthrow him or control him.

So, who wants to be the first few casualties. Usually not too many. So, that way, no one wants to be the first ones to die -- so that the rest are "saved" (the living ones).

Haven't you ever seen the westerns where a "good guy" faces down a mob or a crowd and says, "You may get me, but I'll get about three or four of the first ones who try!" And that's enough to control a crowd of 100 or more in a mob, and then they all disperse or whatever.

How does Saddam Hussein maintain control of his country, being such a vicious dictator that he is? Or how does the Taliban maintain control? They all could overthrow their dictatorial regimes if they wanted. There are enough "people" in those countries to overthrow their rulers -- IF they want to.

Why not? Well, simple. No one wants to be the "first ones" to die -- just so the rest of the country (or the group of people) lives. It's always been that way -- throughout history.

It's no different, now, in this country. It's always been that way and it will always be that way. Otherwise, we wouldn't have dictators, bullies, gangs and the mafia. If people really "stood up" for what they knew was right -- regardless of whether they would be harmed, damaged or killed -- then none of these "groups" would ever exist.

[AlaskaErik]

While we're overreacting to the last incident, the enemy is plotting their next assault. I've flown commercially twice in the past few days and I, along with almost everyone else, have just breezed right through security. I had one of those 8" hand mirrors with the semi-circular wire hanger. I also had my cell phone and camera in my backpack. No one asked about fingernail clippers, razor blades, or anything else at the security entry control point. What a joke!!! The terrorists know now that we'll fight any hijack attempt. They're not getting another passenger plane and they know it. I just wish I knew what they're planning for the next time. That's what we should be trying to find out.

[Star Traveler]

The answer is armed air marshalls, armed pilots, a secure cockpit door and an understanding by all who fly that any attempt to hijack a plane will result in an all out assault by everyone on that plane on the hijackers. The old rules whereby we meekly submit are gone. This rule must also be applied in all areas of life where we might be threatened by terrorists, there are no noncombatants in this war.

That may sound good -- just being words on the screen. But, in real life, it doesn't work that way. The very large majority of people simply are not going to get into "combat situations". That's ridiculous to think so. And IF someone thinks that it's "safer" to "sit it out" -- rather than challenge someone like that -- then they can very conceivably think it's much more responsible (in regards to their own family members) if they come back home again and can see them again.

These statements of your only works IF someone knows ahead of time what is going on and what the stakes are -- in their particular situation and then, if they are trained for combat.

The mass of people simply are not trained for combat and they never will be. And there are "methods" for dealing with others who are trained for combat (who may fight against them).

It's simply not as easy as your words indicate (when one is in that kind of "real life situation" and doesn't know exactly what the future is going to bring in their particular situation).

[Star Traveler]

Not me, you won't catch me getting close to a plane. If I need to go somewhere I'll drive or take a bus.

Now, this statement and idea proves why it will never work that the passengers in the airplane will make sure that another such incident never happens again (as in the idea that the passengers would "rush" such a terrorist, if it happened again).

You see..., one can easily make the case that "statistically" flying in a commercial airliner is one of the safest ways of traveling -- even counting the recent terrorist take-over of these planes. It's a lot safer than driving in your own car, down the freeway or in town.

BUT EVEN SO, no one wants to be the "first one" to show that this statistic is false (just in case something goes wrong in their plane). It's the whole idea that no one wants to be the "first one" to "prove the case". So, everyone stays away -- until the results are assured. Then, the mass of the public starts believing that it's okay again.

So, you're never going to find an attitude (in a group of people on an airliner) where you can confidently say you're going to get a bunch of them to "rush" a terrorist. No one wants to be the "first casualties" in order to either "prove the point" (that rushing the terrorist can be done) or to be the "acceptable losses" (in life) in order to overcome the terrorist.

That's how bullies and dictators and gangs operate. They're able to hold the "masses" at bay, that way. It has always been that way and it always will.

[Star Traveler]

No way in hell is a guy with a box cutter able to hold people hostage who don't want to be held hostage.

And 99% of the people are not about to risk their own life to find out any differently -- "one way or the other". That's the way it is.

[Star Traveler]

I just wish I knew what they're planning for the next time. That's what we should be trying to find out.

Probably flying a private and chartered plane over a major metropolitan area and setting off an atomic bomb. That would work fairly well. You wouldn't have to have a crop duster or a big jet airliner. Just get a simple private airplane, one pilot and carry an atomic bomb on it. Set it off as you're flying over whatever significant target you want.

A lot of these Arabs fly their own planes into this country. How hard would it be? What kind of "bagage checks" do they have on their own planes? They can fly straight into this country and do anything they want -- before they land at that "first point of entry" into this country.

Are you going to shut down the entire aviation industry (private and commercial)? I don't think so. Basically, there is no way to protect yourself against this kind of threat (in terms of "guarding against it") -- if someone really wants to do it.

One simply has to eliminate the people who want to do it -- in order to prevent it from happening. But, that's not going to happen -- because the Islamic world basically teaches that they should kill the Jew and Christian (and will ultimately do so -- until they submit to Islam) And -- there are plenty of "Islamics" in the world. This is a battle to the end (of the age...).

The "basic cause" for this has to do with the Islamic teachings. There is an "entire world of Islam" out there, which has been primed -- from children upwards, to follow through with these teachings.

There's the problem.

[wjeanw]

The question that needs to be asked by security: Did the employee need the boxcutter in the plane to fulfil his duties? If not, when was the last time in his job he would have had to use it. If they determine that it would have been off the plane, then I would charge him with making a threat, and fire him to boot.

[Overtaxed]

What's going to happen when someone discovers on a flight that a box of in-flight meals, napkins, or something wasn't sliced open before takeoff?

I have no problem opening boxes with my car keys.

[Fredgoblu]

I'm curious about something. Are hand mirrors or mirrored compacts also banned?

Good question. Security is one thing, certainly. But, I wonder if they're not going just a little too far.

I heard from a friend that she had to surrender a pair of tweezers at security, last week. What's she going to do? Threaten to pull somebody's eyebrows out one at a time? Poke somebody's eye out?

Heck, in the right hands, a shoelace could be deadly. Perhaps we should enforce a loafers-only requirement?!?!

[PLK]

This sort of nonsense is going to continue as long as the PC police continue to win the "no-racial-profiling-under-any-circumstances" war. The fact is, while not all Muslims are radical, murdering, fanatics, every single one of the evil-doers of 9/11 were!

Finding a misplaced boxcutter may or may not be worrisome, depending on the demographics of the passengers and crew. Now, having said that, we must also understand that we need to be aware of the almost certain eventuality of the recruitment of other American-haters in the Islamist war on us. Until then, even the most innocuous looking retired farmer couple from Iowa traveling to Hawaii to celebrate their 50th anniversary will have their luggage searched with the same vigor that an Arab nationalist twitching his eyes in a paranoid manner will.

This is crazy. Only when each and every American is affected in some manner will this end. Even then there are no guarantees; consider the mother of a woman killed in one of the hijacked airliners who is ranting to any reporter who will listen that we should not overreact. Sheesh.

[NY.SS-Bar9]

And one could still get multiple razor-sharp ceramic / composite knives onboard with absolutly no chance of getting caught. A disposable razor, a pen and a tube of crazy glue would have the same effect.

The FAA, responsible for the tremendous breakdown of security, is now rushing to "do something". Mineta and Co. should be fired and tried for being accomplices to murder.

God help us.

[FITZ]

That's how bullies and dictators and gangs operate.

I'm not going to fly because all the passengers are becoming even more sheep like being stripped of even the slightest possible weapon they can have. We should be demanding more methods of self-defense instead of having everything taken from us. I will not be placing myself or my family into situations where there is no way out and no means of self-defense and we all know full well they are still out there waiting to strike again.

[prambo]

It shouldn't be too long.

Ashcroft is becoming frightening in his quest for more power, NOW!

Governments never give back anything they can get their hands on.

The worst case scenario is passing all these draconian, anti-constitutional laws, and then Hitlery and Janet Reno become Pres-Dyke and VP-Dyke. It should be well remembered that Hitler came to power largely using laws promulgated by the Wiemar Republic; this includes laws necessary to start citizen disarmament.

prambo