The "This isn't a war about religion" line.

aruanan | October 8, 2001 | aruanan

[McBuff]

My God, have you ever nailed it on the head!!!

[wjeanw]

I agree with your assessment. However, I think there IS a political and military reason why our government does not acknowledge the religious element to the present conflict. Namely, if we openly agree with Bin Laden that this is a RELIGIOUS war, then all Muslims, regardless of their sympathies will be forced by Islamic law to come to the aid of their fellow believers. Such a wide scale conflict would surely stress our capabilities to the breaking point, as well as unleash too many terrorists acts within our own borders from Muslims who do not sympathize with Bin Laden. For this reason, I think it is best that President Bush keep up this humanistic/naturalistic approach. Don't you?

[aruanan]

Thanks! A good friend of mine got dumped on because he dared to say that this war is indeed a war about religion (at least from Osama et al.'s point of view, ha ha ha, "point of view", the infection extends to the common language). I thought he needed some sarcasm to cheer him up.

[Temple Drake]

I agree -- the pres' language should remain vague, but it should remain clear in OUR minds what this is about. Islam is the enemy. It's certainly the enemy of Western civilization.

[DreamWeaver]

the bottom line is I trust GW Bush, and I believe what he and others in his administration are saying about this not being a war about religion, before I believe any (unknown) typing their thoughts and beliefs over the net. I look at the late King Hussein of Jordan, (just for example) and his lovely wife Queen Noor who are Muslim, among others that I have read about and I cannot believe all Muslims are fanatics. I just wonder why some people are continuing to perptetuate a falshood that our President GW Bush is denying. Guess who I will believe first ???

[aruanan]

I agree with your assessment. However, I think there IS a political and military reason why our government does not acknowledge the religious element to the present conflict. Namely, if we openly agree with Bin Laden that this is a RELIGIOUS war, then all Muslims, regardless of their sympathies will be forced by Islamic law to come to the aid of their fellow believers. Such a wide scale conflict would surely stress our capabilities to the breaking point, as well as unleash too many terrorists acts within our own borders from Muslims who do not sympathize with Bin Laden. For this reason, I think it is best that President Bush keep up this humanistic/naturalistic approach. Don't you?

Yes. An important consideration that many appear to miss is that while one side can declare a war for purely religious reasons (as Usama already has), the one against whom they have declared it can resist and counter-attack for reasons having to do with personal security not directly related to their own religion at all. Both sides don't have to be doing things for the same reason for the war to have been one caused for religious reasons. For instance, when you are robbed at gunpoint and resist by icing the gunman before he can ice you, you're not engaging in the same action for the same reason. You both want your money, but the robber doesn't have a legitimate right to it or to your life or to threaten your life. His attempt to take it for "selfish", criminal reasons, doesn't make your defense of your money and life equally "selfish" and criminal.

[progrockscott]

Taking the emotion out of it,I'm quite sure that most, if not all, muslims are happy about the 9/11 attack. It seems to be their 'teachings' that any anti-muslim beliefs are evil, and should be destroyed. Just as we (Americans) believe that communists are evil. The biggest problem I have with them is (aside from their joy of seeing 6000 innocent people murdered) none of them have the COURAGE to stand up and proclaim their hatred for us! I would have so much more respect for their whole religion if one of them would just stand up and shout what they believe in! Don't worry, we'll find you anyway. You may as well be on the record once in your lives. I can't believe that their god teaches them to deny their beliefs in the face of danger. Or to run and hide and blame others. Or to lie, murder, and steal from their own people. Or to prostitute themselves to their enemies, selling out their people and 'beliefs' for a handfull of dollars. Very brave and noble teachings! No wonder why they hide behind towels and veils....

[aruanan]

bump for continued visibility

[varon]

BTTT

[aruanan]

Gracias, hombre!

[Cicero]

This is the best way to handle it. The alternative that this editorial seems to advocate would be to declare war on Islam. Is that really what we want to do?

Yes, our leaders should understand what the real stakes are. But that doesn't mean that they have to say publicly and officially what they really think and fear. It's hardly in our national interest to make this into a "religious war" or even to admit that, in Huntington's words, it is a "clash of cultures."

[aruanan]

This is the best way to handle it. The alternative that this editorial[?] seems to advocate would be to declare war on Islam. Is that really what we want to do?

No, we don't declare a war on Islam just because some Muslims declare a war on us and say that they are doing it for religious reasons. We declare a war on them because of the actual things they've done and still threaten to do to us regardless of the reason that they use to justify their actions to themselves. However, it nevertheless is true that bin Ladin et al., are describing their actions as a holy war of Islam against the infidels. It does NO ONE any good at all to say that this isn't true and that they aren't really doing what they do for the reasons they themselves offer.

All we have to do is tell the rest of the world's Muslims (and everyone else)

1. that how we treat them, or anyone else, won't be based on what they believe but on how they act on the basis of that belief,
2. that they can practice their Islam to their heart's contentment as long as they don't attack us,
3. that the best way they can keep themselves safe (from us) is to disavow the actions of bin Ladin and associates and to help us help them shuffle off these mortal coils and
4. if they do choose to attack us for religious or other reasons, we will be crawling down their throats strictly from a practical standpoint.

[aruanan]

Also see #7.

[Austin Willard Wright]

What is your recommendation? We declare on the entire Islamic world from Indonesia to Morocco? Just wondering.

[aruanan]

FYI.

[RnMomof7]

Thanks for the flag..excellent assessment..may I post it else where?

[Ronin]

I am not only book-marking this, I am printing it out and making copies.

Mind if I send it to one of the English language Japanese newspapers?

[atafak]

I'll give a recommendation. We start taking out all the radical mullahs who foment this hatred against us. Worldwide.

[willyboyishere]

No matter how much I learn about Muslim extremism, "bin Ladenism" or whatever names we have learned to attach to this movement, I keep coming back to the same conclusion, and it's a conclusion that is perhaps historically without precedent: that there is a very considerable mass of people occupying our planet who have simply reached the absolute dead-end of their historical moment. We'd better have a strong stomach because this is going to be a bloodbath of historical proportions, and now is there no turning back, and they want it that way. They seem to truly want and expect to be exterminated, and they believe that even if all of them are killed in the process of trying to defeat the West and re-establish their brand of Islam as a dominant force on the world stage, then new generations will follow them and successfully complete the struggle. Of course they are fatuously aligning themselves with the Palestinian struggle and the Palestinians are just desperate enough to cheer him on, without ever asking themselves what bin Laden would do for them if he ever "took over" the world. This is a dead end for Islamic fundamentalism, the stakes are as high as they've ever been raised, and, one way or another, they are about to exit the world stage.