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Beware of Russia: Sneak Attack?
McAlvany Intelligence Advisor ^ | October 10, 2001 | Don McAlvany

Posted on 10/09/2001 10:30:52 PM PDT by FresnoDA


BEWARE OF THE BEAR:
IS RUSSIA RISING FROM THE ASHES?
By Don McAlvany

    “War to the hilt between Communism and capitalism is inevitable. Today, of course, we are not strong enough to attack. Our time will come… To win, we shall need the element of surprise. The bourgeoisie will have to be put to sleep. So we shall begin by launching the most spectacular peace movement on record. There will be electrifying overtures and unheard of concession. The capitalist countries, stupid and decadent, will rejoice to cooperate in their own destruction. They will leap at another chance to be friends. As soon as their guard is down, we will smash them with our clenched fist.” – Dimitri Manuilsky, speaking at the Lenin School for Political Warfare in the 1930s.

   “Political ‘liberalization’ and ‘democratization’ would follow the general lines of the Czechoslovak rehearsal in 1968. This rehearsal might well have been the kind of political experiment [KGB General] Mironov had in mind as early as 1960. The ‘liberalization’ would be spectacular and impressive. Formal pronouncements might be made about a reduction in the Communist Party’s role; its monopoly would be apparently curtailed. An ostensible separation of powers between the legislative, the executive, and the judiciary might be introduced. The Supreme Soviet would be given greater apparent power and the president and deputies greater apparent independence. The posts of president … and first secretary of the party might well be separated. The KGB would be ‘reformed.’ Dissidents at home would be amnestied; those in exile abroad would be allowed to return, and some would take up positions of leadership in government.”
– KGB defector Anatoliy Golitsyn, New Lies for Old,  1984

“As it turned out, the crisis of August 1991 did not represent the revolutionary turning point that it was portrayed to be. A decisive break with the Soviet system of the past did not occur when the coup attempt collapsed.” – Amy Knight, Spies Without Cloaks: The KGB’s Successors, 1996

“The erosion of NATO [according to Soviet planners ] … would be completed by the withdrawal of the United States from its commitment to the defense of Europe… To this end we envisaged that it might be necessary to dissolve the Warsaw Pact, in which event we had already prepared a web of bilateral defense arrangements, to be supervised by secret committees of Comecon.” – Czech Communist defector General Jan Sejna, We Will Bury You,  1982

“I was waiting for a new general to appear, unlike any other. Or rather, a general who was like the generals I read about in books when I was young. I was waiting… Time passed, and such a general appeared. And soon after his arrival, it became obvious to our whole society how really courageous and highly professional our military people were. This ‘general’ was named Colonel Valdimir Putin.” – Boris Yeltsin, Midnight Diaries, 2000.

“Given the relatively small number of U.S. missile and bomber warheads likely to survive a Russian preemptive strike under START II, if Russia can maintain its Triad of strategic offensive and defensive forces, it will become the preeminent nuclear superpower. The Russian military and senior political officials understand this very well even if the U.S. does not.” – William T. Lee, The ABM Treaty Charade, 1998

INTRODUCTION

Over the past 25 years (with the exception of the past few years) this writer has written more about Communism and Soviet/Chinese strategic expansion plans than any other topic except the economy, the financial system, and South Africa. This writer has long believed that Communism is not dead (i.e., look at Red China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Angola, Mozambique, South Africa, etc.); that the Cold War is not really over; and that the Communist powers, after a decade or so of pretending to be dead, would come back with a vengeance and threaten the West (and particularly America) with war and destruction.

MIA wrote over a dozen issues in the 1980s and first half of the 1990s about Soviet strategic deception – how the Communists had staged or manufactured the collapse or death of Communism to convince the people and governments of the West that they could massively disarm; that the West would lower its guard, even as the East Bloc intelligence services reorganized under innocuous names and massively infiltrated the West; and that through massive disinformation in the global media they were hiding the Communists’ preparations for war.

This strategic deception campaign was predicted and written about in 1981 (and published in 1984) by Anatoliy Golitsyn, a former Soviet major in the KGB in his book New Lies For Old. In that book, Golitsyn predicted the “staged” fall of Communism; the “collapse” of the Iron Curtain; the rise of such so-called “democratic reformers” as Gorbachev and Yeltsin; and a massive disinformation campaign to convince the West that the Soviet military machine (the largest then and now) had been dismantled.

In return, for this pseudo-collapse of Communism, the Communist leaders believed (according to Golitsyn) that the West would massively disarm. [ED. NOTE: Note the 50% reduction in the U.S. military from 1992 to 2000 under Bill Clinton]; that Western financial aid would pour into Russia; and that Communist intelligence agents could with virtually no resistance infiltrate every nook and cranny of America and the West. [ED. NOTE: Note the Chinese Communist infiltration of America during the Clinton years in the 1990s.]

Golitsyn also predicted that during the so-called collapse of Communism and the period of perestroika (i.e., reorganization) that followed, that America and the Western nations would share much of their military high technology with their “defeated” Communist enemies. Indeed during the Bush Senior and Clinton years this is exactly what happened – we shared most of our nuclear, missile, space, aircraft and other sophisticated military technology with Russia and Red China.

The reality is that Communism is not dead – it merely changed its name, face, organizations and key players. The powerful Communist Party of the Soviet Union is not dead – it merely went underground and runs Russia (along with the KGB and Red Army) from behind the scenes.

The KGB is not dead – it has been renamed and reorganized at least five times over the past 15 years, it is more powerful and widespread than during the pre-collapse era (often operating under the guise of the Russian mafia, business, banking, etc.); and it has infiltrated more KGB agents into America and the West in recent years than during the so-called Cold War period. Some of these operate at or near the pinnacles of power in a number of powerful Western nations including America, England, and France.

The Russian military has not been dismantled. It has been reorganized and downsized with regard to manpower (which can be rebuilt in 12 months) but the Russian military still possesses the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons, military aircraft, attack and missile submarines, tanks, artillery, and small arms in the world. And the Russian military has been very busy over the past decade developing and deploying very effective new weapons systems (in spite of Russia’s well-crafted image of being broke and in chaos).

And while the Western nations continue to disarm in this era of peace and prosperity and struggle to maintain their economic/financial equilibrium, Red China, Russia, North Korea and a number of their Communist allies are quietly but aggressively preparing for war.

During World War II we had the emergence of the Axis Powers (i.e., Germany, Japan, Italy) in the 1930s which launched World War II in 1939 and ’41. Today we have a New Axis emerging – including Russia, Red China, North Korea, Vietnam, the radical Islamic states of Iran, Iraq and Syria, and a host of smaller Communist countries including several of the former Soviet states. This New Axis is preparing for war (just as the Axis Powers were during the 1930s) against the West but especially against America.

If they conclude that America’s military decline may reverse under George W. Bush (i.e., that their “window of opportunity” could begin to close) the war could be sooner. It could begin with a North Korean attack on South Korea or a Red Chinese attack on Taiwan. In any case, war could erupt between the New Axis and the so-called New World Order countries (Western Europe, America, Canada, some of Latin America, Japan, Taiwan, etc.).

[ED. NOTE: The following article was written for MIA by J.R. Nyquist, a staff writer for WorldNetDaily and a highly respected geopolitical analyst. This will be the first in a series of articles MIA will publish over the next year or so regarding Russia/Chinese/NewAxis war preparations.]

A.  THE SOVIET COLLAPSE WAS A FRAUD

While the West continues to cling to economic optimism, the East prepares for the bursting of the Great Bubble. In the last two years Russia has created and tested a new fighter, a new sniper rifle, a new tank, a new attack helicopter and a new rifle-fired grenade that can knock down a three-story building. According to NATO sources, Russia has recently tested a “vacuum bomb” artillery shell with the firepower of a tactical nuclear warhead.

But why should we worry? The Cold War is over. The Russians are America’s friends, and so are the Chinese. Perhaps you also believe that markets rise forever without crashing, that it is “peace in our time” and that we are living at “the end of history.” Children believe in Santa Claus, but grown men go further. They believe in something called the “New Economy.” They also believe in the new and improved “democratic Russia.”

Several months ago British researcher Christopher Story asked Russian defector Viktor Suvorov what he thought of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Suvorov replied that the collapse was a fraud. Story asked if Suvorov’s contacts in British intelligence understood this. When Suvorov said they did not, Story asked why. “Because they’re stupid,” quipped the Russian defector.

General Jan Sejna was the highest ranking Communist bloc official ever to defect. He fled Communist Czechoslovakia in 1968. In 1982 he wrote a book, We Will Bury You, which said that Moscow had a long-range strategy for defeating the West. “[The] main target of the Strategic Plan is the United States,” wrote Sejna. “…the Plan calls for the isolation of the ‘main enemy’ by the ‘Finlandization’ of Europe; reduction of Western political and economic access to the Third World by establishing… [insurgencies] in areas of importance to the U.S.”

As we look around the world today we find a large Communist insurgency just below Panama, in the nation of Colombia. We also find President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela concluding a military pact with Russia and announcing himself on a visit to Beijing as Latin America’s “second Fidel Castro.” We see South Africa and the Cape Sea route under control of the Communist-dominated ANC, which has consolidated military agreements with Moscow and Beijing. We find the radical Arab and Muslim states of the Middle East being supplied with Russian and Chinese weapons, even as the Middle East threatens to erupt into war.

B.  THE SOVIET STRATEGIC PLAN

In 1982, Sejna mentioned oil as a component in Moscow’s long-range plan, stating: “From about 1977, according to the forecasts in the Plan [as it existed in 1967], the new Middle East regimes would respond to our strategy and, through their oil, give us the ability to deliver a paralyzing blow to Capitalism.”

If you are skeptical about the existence of a long-range Kremlin strategy, you are not alone. “One of the basic problems of the West,” wrote Sejna, “is its frequent failure to recognize the existence of any Soviet ‘grand design’ at all.”

Western policy elites refuse to believe in the reality of a Soviet Strategic Plan. Against this skepticism, Sejna wrote: “The Soviet Strategic Plan for the establishment of their ‘Socialism’ worldwide does, without doubt, exist and, however flexible and pragmatic Soviet policy appears, it is essentially directed towards the achievement of the Plan’s objectives – objectives which have been, are and will remain utterly inimical to and subversive of the freedoms enjoyed by the states of the Western world.”

Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was typical of those who took the lead in discounting the idea of a Soviet Strategic Plan. “It seems to me more useful,” wrote Kissinger in his memoirs, “to view Soviet strategy as essentially one of ruthless opportunism.” For whatever reason, Kissinger failed to see a larger pattern, an overarching design in Moscow’s policies. This failure has remained with us for three solid decades.

About this failure, Sejna warned: “Those rejecting the concept [of a Soviet Strategic Plan] unwittingly serve Soviet efforts to conceal their objectives and further complicate the process of determining such objectives.”

As it happens, other significant defectors have corroborated Sejna’s testimony about a long-range Kremlin strategy. Ladislav Bittman, former deputy chief of Department D of the Czech Intelligence Service, acknowledged the reality of a long-range Soviet plan. According to Bittman, KGB General Agayants, chief of the KGB’s Disinformation Department, frequently came to Prague in person to ensure the plan was being followed. But the most dramatic testimony about a Communist bloc strategic plan comes from KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn, who outlined the Kremlin’s grand deception strategy in his 1984 book, New Lies For Old.

C.  GOLITSYN’S PREDICTIONS OF THE GREAT SOVIET DECEPTION

According to Golitsyn, who worked in a KGB think tank during the late 1950s, the Kremlin had developed a long-term policy. In its “final phase,” the policy called for the deceptive liberalization of Eastern Europe and the “exhibition of spurious independence on the part of the regimes in Romania, Czechoslovakia, and Poland.”

False liberalization and democratization would coincide with radical arms control proposals that would – if adopted – leave the West defenseless to a new and secretly constructed generation of Russian weapons. False liberalization would also mask a new alliance between Russia and China, which Golitsyn said might upset the global balance.

In 1984 Golitsyn predicted the emergence of a liberal Soviet leader. He also predicted the tearing down of the Berlin Wall, the disempowerment of the Communist Party Soviet Union, and the liquidation of the Warsaw Pace alliance. “But,” warned Golitsyn, “the ‘liberalization’ would be calculated and deceptive in that it would be introduced from above. It would be carried out by the party through its cells and individual members in government, the Supreme Soviet, the courts, and the electoral machinery and by the KGB through its agents among the intellectuals and scientists.”

According to researcher Mark Riebling, the author of Wedge: The Secret War Between FBI and CIA, Golitsyn made 148 predictions in his 1984 book. By 1993, “139 out of 148 were fulfilled…” This gives Golitsyn an accuracy of almost 94 percent.

In political science, predictions are usually a source of later amusement. Experts are typically wrong. The well-foddered, famous wise ones dismissed Golitsyn in 1984 as “totally inaccurate” if not “demented.” British author Tom Mangold, in his biography of CIA counterintelligence chief James Angleton, charged that Golitsyn was mentally ill, falsely alleging that Golitsyn “As a crystal-ball gazer…has been unimpressive.”

The smears and the misrepresentations of historical facts never cease to amaze the careful researcher. One of Golitsyn’s most frequently laughed-at predictions concerned Russia and China. In 1984 Golitsyn wrote: “…in the early stages of the final phase of policy, a Sino-Soviet reconciliation could be expected. It is contemplated and implied by the long-range policy and by strategic disinformation on the split.”

By 1999, thousands of Russian scientists were working in China, helping the People’s Liberation Army develop weapons of mass destruction. Today Russia is selling its latest weapons to China, including modern destroyers, jet fighters and missiles. Since November 1998, Russia and China have openly acknowledged their “strategic partnership.” According to the official Chinese press, this partnership has been developed to “challenge the perceived global dominance of the United States.”

According to Col Stanislav Lunev, a ranking defector from the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Russian General Staff (GRU), the Russians and Chinese have been sharing military intelligence sources since 1992. He also stated in a 1998 interview that a Sino-Russian military alliance could defeat the United States in a future world war.

D.  RUSSIAN ALLIANCES AROUND THE GLOBE: THE NEW AXIS

If you look around the globe today you will find numerous areas of danger. Behind every one of these dangers is a line of support running back to China or Russia. In Central Asia, former Soviet structures are being used to support an ongoing war against Afghanistan. In mid-June, leaders from Russia, China and four Central Asian republics gathered in Shanghai for a meeting. According to Chinese officials, the summit aimed at “combating militant Islam.” In other words, the war in Afghanistan will continue. This also dramatically shows that even the war in Afghanistan did not end in 1988. The same goes for the war in Angola, in the Congo, in Colombia, etc. Once again, the Kremlin – or its organized crime surrogates – can be seen supporting Communist governments or Communist rebels in case after case.

If Communism has been discredited in Russia, how could this policy be politically supportable? For that matter, how does “democratic” Russia’s support for Communist China make sense? Or Russia’s renewed alliances with Fidel Castro and Communist Vietnam?

On June 5, Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov and Vietnamese Foreign Minister Nguyen Dy Nien met in Moscow to declare a new “strategic partnership” between Russia and Vietnam. Last March, Russian president Vladimir Putin traveled to Vietnam specifically to restore close ties between the Soviet-era allies. During that visit, Putin and Vietnamese President Tran Duc Luong signed an accord to facilitate military and economic cooperation. “The relations between Vietnam and Russia are based on a very strong foundation,” said Nien, “which has not changed.”

1.         NORTH KOREA – Russia has also been strengthening its ties with North Korea. In fact, there were stories out of Korea this May that North Korean dictator Kim Jong-il had slipped across the border into China, then into Siberia, for a secret meeting with Russian President Putin and high ranking Chinese officials.

North Korea is of particular concern. During an April 17 military briefing at the George Bush School on the Texas A&M campus, Major Gen. Jerry Humble painted a terrifying picture of North Korea’s military buildup. Speaking before luminaries like former Defense Secretary William Perry, Korean Ambassador Yang Sung-chul, Deputy Director of Central Intelligence John McLaughlin, former U.S. Ambassador to China and Korea, James Lilley and Vice Adm. Paul Gaffney, Gen. Humble said that North Korea’s armed forces had grown by 10 percent during the previous year. At the present time, said Humble, the Communists have deployed more than 1.1 million troops, 4,300 tanks, 13,000 artillery tubes and 600 ballistic missiles. Even more alarming, the North Koreans have pushed their forces, including artillery, right up to the DMZ. “These are not defensive positions,” explained Humble.

Debunking the notion that things have settled down in Korea since the summit of last June, Humble said, “Things aren’t always as we see and hear.” Part of Humble’s presentation was entitled “Perceptions vs. Realities.”

Perception: That North Korea no longer poses a threat.

Reality: Kim Jong-il has reinforced his military and increased his capabilities.

We’re going to defeat this aggression,” said Humble, referring to the possibility that an attack may be imminent. But victory will come at a tremendous cost. He further stated, “there’s some terrible, terrible capabilities on the North Korean side.”

It should also be pointed out that North Korea’s economy collapsed in 1993, but the war machine continued to grow. In fact, the growth has intensified. If the North Koreans lack the resources to feed themselves, how have they managed to put together one of the largest armies on earth, with 5 million reservists ready for action? [ED. NOTE: The same question could be asked regarding Russia.]

2.         VENEZUELA – The Russians and Chinese know the answer to this question. In region after region we see that the Communist bloc is coming together again, just as KGB defector Golitsyn predicted. The false collapse of Communism has paved the way for a silent offensive during which new countries have entered the Kremlin fold. Consider Venezuela and its Castro-loving president, Hugo Chavez. While the Chinese grasp at the Panama Canal through front companies, Russia agrees to build weapons factories in Venezuela, just across the border from Colombia’s Communist insurgency.

Chavez is a leftist who masks his love of Marxism in nationalist rhetoric. He is a “man of the people” who supposedly models himself after Simon Bolivar. But in reality, his model is Fidel Castro. Once a week Chavez imitates his Cuban hero by making windy, rambling speeches on national television. Recently he has lamented that his “peaceful revolution” has failed, hinting that a violent revolution may be necessary to solve Venezuelan poverty. Last year Chavez claimed responsibility for the high price of American gasoline. He has shown himself friendly to Communist rebels in at least two Latin American countries, and with the chairmanship of OPEC in his pocket, Chavez became the first world leader to shake Saddam Hussein’s hand since the Gulf War.

In June, Chavez toyed with the idea of declaring a state of emergency to combat corruption and implement reforms. “We are involved in a superhuman effort to make a peaceful revolution without arms,” said Chavez, “but it has been very difficult. I am convinced that if for some reason this attempt to forge a revolution without arms fails, what would come next would be a revolution with arms because that is the only way out that we Venezuelans have.”

These are ominous words coming from an admirer of Fidel Castro. But many pundits and analysts treat Chavez as a joke. For that matter, Castro himself even looks like a clown in his military fatigues. Such clowns, however, have proven themselves quite lethal in the past. And here is a clown whose knife is within reach of our oil jugular.

Venezuela is not the only oil exporting country supported by Moscow. Iran’s president traveled to Moscow in mid-March to conclude a huge arms pact with Russia and to sign a defense treaty. Libya and Iraq have also strengthened their ties to Russia in recent months.

If this were not enough, the Chinese have added to the pressure on the world’s oil lifeline by securing for themselves a major port in western Pakistan which might be used to deploy submarines against the main shipping arteries of the Persian Gulf.

CONCLUSION:  The strategic intentions of Russia and China have been signaled in a hundred little ways. By building an alliance of anti-American powers, by arming Communist governments in Africa and Marxist insurgents in Latin America, by aligning with the militant Communist leadership in North Korea and Vietnam, the strategic direction of Moscow’s policies confirm KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn’s predictions.

When you contemplate future investments consider the trends we are now seeing. Think of Golitsyn’s prediction in his 1984 book, where he stated, “Before long, the Communist strategists might be persuaded that the balance had swung irreversibly in their favor. In that event they might well decide on a Sino-Soviet ‘reconciliation.’ The scissors strategy would give way to the strategy of ‘one clenched fist.’ At that point the shift in the political and military balance would be plain for all to see.” [End of Nyquist article.]


TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bush; china; coldwar2; communism; congress; geopolitics; iran; iraq; islam; israel; kgb; putin; russia; ussr; yeltsin
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Letting the Russians take the point on our behalf in the Bin Laden hunt is totally ridiculous!!
1 posted on 10/09/2001 10:30:52 PM PDT by FresnoDA
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To: FresnoDA
After reading this, I'm selling all the gold he told me to buy before Y2K and trading it in for tinfoil. Yeppers, can't have that Russian broadcast radiation from them there satellites of theirs causing me to start loving vodka and fat hairy Russian women.
2 posted on 10/09/2001 10:35:39 PM PDT by Nuke'm Glowing
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To: FresnoDA
The conclusion this author draws up is pure B.S. China does not have any true intentions of drawing up an alliance with Russia. It's China, India and Japan. Central Asia is where it is at. Let Russia roll in from the North.
3 posted on 10/09/2001 10:37:06 PM PDT by duck soup
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To: FresnoDA
For the Russian collapse to be a sham they sure have done a great job of it. They are excellent actors. Letting their navy deteriorate into rust is a pretty good ruse, pretending not to be able to pay soldiers for months also. Letting Poland join NATO and pretending they couldn't stop it was a masterstroke.

While not yet trusting them to watch my back, I don't mind them taking point. Sometimes healthy skepticism can deteriorate into paranoia.
4 posted on 10/09/2001 10:39:35 PM PDT by Arkinsaw
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To: FresnoDA Hugh Akston OneidaM dubyaismypresident Ms. AntiFemiNazi BobJ
BUMP!
5 posted on 10/09/2001 10:41:10 PM PDT by Cool Guy
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To: Arkinsaw
I also enjoy the great Russian acting. A 50% decline in GDP also takes great skill to pull off.

BTW, what's this with not paying the soldiers? Always sounded like a really poor idea to me.

6 posted on 10/09/2001 10:46:09 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: duck soup
But what do you call it when Russia participates in simulations of taking Taiwan, when China is developing a blue water Navy with Russian help, and they both support the Kim Dynasty? Maybe it's not an alliance, but it scares the hell out of me no matter what you call it.
7 posted on 10/09/2001 10:47:19 PM PDT by American Soldier
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To: FresnoDA
It is only fitting that Russia be allowed to finally conquer Afghanistan, as a reward for overthrowing the atheistic Soviet Communist system. They are in a much better position to rule in the area, it splits the muslim peninsula in half as it were, and meanwhile we swing the Armies of the West to Teheran and straight across Iraq and Syria, bearing down on Palestine. Alexander in reverse!
Let's give the Russkies what they really want, a warm deep-water port. In Constantinople.
8 posted on 10/09/2001 10:57:39 PM PDT by Darheel
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To: American Soldier
The real threat is China. If you notice they are not spending one dime. Russia, the U.S. and G.B. are.
9 posted on 10/09/2001 10:59:32 PM PDT by duck soup
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To: American Soldier
Nyquist and McAlvaney have screamed WOLF! more times than a PETA dimwit at Yellowstone.

Kim the younger is not nearly the bastard his old man was. As long as he has an adequate supply of Swedish Blondes and Scotch in Pyongyang, he should be content. It would also be a pretty neat trick to invade the south with troops that are being used as farm labor, and guards on foodstuffs (which has been the case since 1995). Numbers are nice, but you of all people should know that a military is more than a bunch of guys with rifles wearing the same clothes.

My advice to you Soldier (for what it is worth), is to worry about complete nutcases bowing five times daily to the holy meteor, and not a pack of Clymers that know war will disrupt their business (being the Jeffe of a corrupt $h!+hole)... After all, turning the "Foreign Aid" hand and its yummy handouts, the corporations with their lucrative kickbable deals, and the source of luxuries available to the grifters with guns into a glowing pile of rubble just is'nt worth it for these scum.

10 posted on 10/09/2001 11:02:33 PM PDT by L,TOWM
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To: FresnoDA
"Letting the Russians take the point on our behalf in the Bin Laden hunt is totally ridiculous!!"

Not necessarily - Bush has a lot up his sleeve! Here's what I think would play out nicely:

After we get done bombing the pi$$ out of the Afghans, the Russians will swoop in and "beat" us to Kabul (just like Germany and Berlin)

We don't want Afghanistan anyhow, we just want to kill some folks who need killing, and make a point - don't f*ck with us! We'll pulverize them and take down their defenses with our airpower, and the reds will "beat" us going in on the ground, and lose THEIR men mopping up.

We'll turn our heads while THEY settle old scores - lots of dead enemy, and WE didn't do it, Russia did.

We won't get stuck with occupation or trying to prop up a new Afghan government that will eventually fail anyhow, since all the factions hate each other.

We let the Russians do the occupation as well as the dirty work. THEY get the "prize", as well as the blame for the new government falling in a few years. Let Russia occupy the $hithole while we move on to Iraq or whoever else needs stomped next.

Just some thoughts I wanted to post so I can say "I told you so!" Flame away!

11 posted on 10/09/2001 11:03:32 PM PDT by Bill Rice
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To: FresnoDA
The so called "vacuum bomb" is nothing more that an FAE and if you don't know what that is you are as ignorant as the author of this piece!
12 posted on 10/09/2001 11:11:37 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: Bill Rice
What you say would work for me if it happened. Who cares about Afghanistan? Just get Osama, Sadam, Arafat and all the other terrorist cells. Let there be revolutions in the other countries. Once they kill each other from within, it will be easy for us to mop up if necessary.
13 posted on 10/09/2001 11:19:04 PM PDT by Crispy
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To: American Soldier
"they both support the Kim Dynasty"

Wow, that's some special kinda support they're giving 'em, what with the peasants eating grass and bark on a good day, and trying to make a run for the Chinese border on a bad one.

I wonder... do you think we could talk them into "supporting" all of our enemies like that?

14 posted on 10/09/2001 11:30:27 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: FresnoDA
'You may fly over our airspace','I have stood my troops down after your high alert' Vladamir Putin 2001.
15 posted on 10/09/2001 11:38:49 PM PDT by Governor StrangeReno
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To: duck soup
Russia and China sign treaty - July 2001
16 posted on 10/09/2001 11:42:32 PM PDT by spycatcher
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: Bill Rice
"Letting the Russians take the point on our behalf in the Bin Laden hunt is totally ridiculous!!"

No it isn't. It is essentially like WWII, whereby Germany was defeated by Russian dead soldiers, and by American industrial might reflected in superior war hardware.

If Russia is willing to way into this effort, great. If they want the place when it is over, they can have the pile of rocks. And short of killing every last Muslim, Russia's heavy handed methods of ruling, look attractive compared to many alternatives.

18 posted on 10/09/2001 11:44:48 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: Darheel
Aye, give them Constantinople, the Rome of the East!
I'm with you there bud.
Make the world a safer place, destroy the Islamic evil with the help of our allies in Russia and India.
21 posted on 10/10/2001 1:50:27 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cool Guy
I do not fear the Russians, they will only become better allies in the future.

Now, China taking over Taiwan while we are focused on the Middleast, now that could happen....

22 posted on 10/10/2001 6:11:15 AM PDT by NeoCaveman
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To: FresnoDA
Russia is having trouble tying their shoes right now. If you're looking for a superpower threat, take a closer look at China.
23 posted on 10/10/2001 6:52:16 AM PDT by TADSLOS
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To: Nuke'm Glowing
Hay buddy, our women are slim and beautiful and look nothing like the crap on Springer...and the Vodka ain't half bad either.
24 posted on 10/10/2001 7:07:41 AM PDT by Stavka2
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To: Arkinsaw
Hehehe, silly Amerikan fool, we are master chess players...you will die and we will take yur women....vell, maybe the 20% that will fit in our cars....hehehehe
25 posted on 10/10/2001 7:09:31 AM PDT by Stavka2
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To: American Soldier
What would you have better? An unstable despot armed with long range missiles and crude nukes, isolated from the somewhat saner world or the same with at least some steading hand on his head? You decide.
26 posted on 10/10/2001 7:11:16 AM PDT by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2,Arkinsaw
re : Hehehe, silly Amerikan fool, we are master chess players...you will die and we will take yur women....vell, maybe the 20% that will fit in our cars....hehehehe .

You got it wrong Britain has already ear marked America for herself, but Russia gets Alaska, and the women well the whining ones.

What do you think Tony Blair and Putin keep on having meetings for.

It is time to resurrect the British and Russian Empire.

Tony

27 posted on 10/10/2001 7:23:45 AM PDT by tonycavanagh
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To: Stavka2
our women are slim and beautiful...

Where do you hide them?

28 posted on 10/10/2001 7:39:11 AM PDT by Steve1789
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: FresnoDA
I believe the Russians want to exterminate the radical muslims more than we do. They have been a problem for Russia for generations.
30 posted on 10/10/2001 7:53:29 AM PDT by boycott
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To: Steve0113
our women are slim and beautiful...

Where do you hide them?

In mail order catalogues by the thousands for lonely American men to send away for.

31 posted on 10/10/2001 7:55:01 AM PDT by Wm Bach
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To: FresnoDA
I've been saying for years that communism in Russia is alive and well. And I've been called crazy by freepers because that implies that Ronald Reagan really didn't defeat communism after all. I read a headline yesterday that said Russian troops were moving near Kabul. I got to thinking about how ironic it is that Russia wasn't able to defeat Afghanistan in the '80s, but here they are now at the gates of Kabul.

Letting the Russians take the point on our behalf in the Bin Laden hunt is totally ridiculous!!

Frankly, I don't care who gets Bin Laden. And with all the different gangs in the Northern Alliance, I'm afraid fighting will continue after the Taliban is overthrown. Maybe Russia would give some stability to the region. India would have a hissy fit because Pakistan seems to be more aligned with Russia than India is. If we do let Russia dominate the region, it may come back to haunt us years from now, just as our support of the Mujahedin (sp) in the '80s has come back to haunt us (Bin Laden).

32 posted on 10/10/2001 7:57:36 AM PDT by DallasDeb
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To: duck soup
China does not have any true intentions of drawing up an alliance with Russia.

So, you're saying that China is just going through the motions, signing mutual military agreements and the like?

33 posted on 10/10/2001 8:00:05 AM PDT by DallasDeb
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To: FresnoDA
bttt
34 posted on 10/10/2001 8:03:35 AM PDT by Don Myers
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To: Arkinsaw
Letting their navy deteriorate into rust is a pretty good ruse, pretending not to be able to pay soldiers for months also.

I don't believe the collapse was a deliberate subterfuge, but I do believe there are too many communists still in power and they have allowed democracy to fail by allowing the mafia to take over the country. I wouldn't be surprised to know that the mafia is composed of all those communist politburo types. They only understand force. Russia has taken huge amounts of money from the IMF and, what they haven't stolen, they have used to develop and build advanced weapons that they are selling on the world market.

35 posted on 10/10/2001 8:05:43 AM PDT by DallasDeb
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To: Bill Rice
"We let the Russians do the occupation as well as the dirty work. THEY get the "prize", as well as the blame for the new government falling in a few years. Let Russia occupy the $hithole while we move on to Iraq or whoever else needs stomped next."

This is what the allies did for the Kamerades in WWII. We gave them half of Germany. Then we had the Berlin Airlife, etc. etc. etc. We have to start teaching history a little better in our schools.

36 posted on 10/10/2001 8:07:54 AM PDT by Don Myers
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To: American Soldier duck soup
The Urgent Need to Reconsider Prevailing Assumptions about Russia and China

(More "Perestroika Deception" by Golitsyn.)

37 posted on 10/10/2001 8:20:34 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: tonycavanagh ... Lol ... morning, Tony.

38 posted on 10/10/2001 8:21:56 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: Carbon
Thanks for the bump ...
39 posted on 10/10/2001 8:27:36 AM PDT by Askel5
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To: Askel5, You_cant_beat_them_join_them
morning there, or I should say good evening.

Cheers Tony

40 posted on 10/10/2001 8:33:23 AM PDT by tonycavanagh
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To: Don Myers
"Then we had the Berlin Airlife, etc. etc. etc. "

But this was because there was something in Germany and Berlin that mattered - Christians and Jews.

Do we even care about a worthless country full of inbred muslim piss-ants who hate us? What does Afgahnistan possibly have that we need or want? Our concern is killing the right ones - no matter who finishes the job. We have other work that needs done.

41 posted on 10/10/2001 8:41:56 AM PDT by Bill Rice
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: Bill Rice
Why does Russia want it so much?
43 posted on 10/10/2001 8:46:05 AM PDT by Don Myers
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To: Don Myers
Why does Russia want it so much?

Because it puts them one sliver of Pakistan away from a warm water port.

44 posted on 10/10/2001 9:18:19 AM PDT by Steve1789
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To: Steve0113
I guess I should have referred to them as "white, blue and red", instead of "reds", but it just dosen't roll off the tongue as nice.

In any event, I'm glad they are in with us on this mess!

45 posted on 10/10/2001 9:31:19 AM PDT by Bill Rice
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: Bill Rice
"What does Afgahnistan possibly have that we need or want? "

Why does Russia want it? It might make a difference to us.

48 posted on 10/10/2001 10:40:23 AM PDT by Don Myers
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To: Steve0113
"Because it puts them one sliver of Pakistan away from a warm water port. "

Lets carry this thing on through. Why do they want a warm water port?

49 posted on 10/10/2001 10:42:06 AM PDT by Don Myers
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To: Don Myers
In the words of Col. Killgore, "Charlie don't surf!".
50 posted on 10/10/2001 11:11:37 AM PDT by Reweld
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