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China should initiate political reforms and abandon its policy of making the fight against US hegemony its security priority

BIG bump. The root causes of this policy is what I want to talk about.

China has been victimised by Japanese and other foreign aggression,

and America was not? What about those people in Pearl Harbor? Or the people in the Baatan Death March?

Did America not fight Japan?

Their resentment of America stems from several associated things. 1. Our ‘support’ for the KMT during WWII. 2. At that time, their Communist ideologies dictated that US ‘capitalism’ was evil and should be destroyed. They were an extension of the old USSR.

Recently I read some Mainlander’s interpretation of the 1911 Revolution. His point was that that revolution had no particular aim, and was a ‘revolution about nothing more than popular discontent.’ He even blatantly stated that “the revolution of 1911 offered NO alternatives” to China’s problems.

He then went on to say that the Revolution of 1949 was merely an extension of the 1911 Revolution, basically ‘in order to finish the job’. To him, the 1911 revolution was “incomplete”.

In reality though Dr. Sun envisioned a great alternative for China based on American Democracy. Dr. Sun went to school in Hawaii with Americans from a very young age. He lived there for many years starting from his early teens. He also went to the Ivy League for further education. To say he was not influenced by America is foolish.

He wanted to create a Republic in China. A Republic is a group of individual states voluntarily bound together to create a nation, hence his stance on “one-China”. His vision was based on the American federal system.

The Revolution of 1949 was not a continuation of the Revolution of 1911. It was a Revolution against the ideals of the then in charge KMT. They were capitalists. They were friends with America. The VERY thing Dr Sun set up to bring about his vision of a modern China, the CCP (led by the ruthless USSR) led a revolution against.

Not all revolutions are created equal. America itself was founded in Revolution.

There are two competing views of Dr. Sun. On the CCP side, their revolution was ‘an extension of Dr. Sun’s revolution’.

On the other hand (and in reality) Dr. Sun’s revolution took time to implement. It was a revolution with democratic ideals at its roots. The term ‘republic’ and ‘democracy’ were meant to be taken literally, with America as their backdrop or inspiration.

Now the CCP is claiming that Communist China no longer exists

Why is that and what does that mean for the future? Is China finally coming around to what Dr. Sun REALLY had in mind?

The fact is the CCP in its one party rule is nothing different than the feudal system all over again—just with a different name attached to it.

IMO to solve the Taiwan China problem

#1. China has to create a China that was envisioned by Dr. Sun. One party rule should be phased out and local controls in a “republic” should be phased in. However those individual units wish to obtain their leaders is up to them. That in and of itself preserves Taiwan’s identity and democracy.

#2. Taiwan has to realize reality. When I say that I do not mean (and never will) that Beijing or the CCP will be their rulers. I do mean though that they have to realize that there is (or should be) fundamental changes going on in China. Despite the fact that the KMT is not the ones bringing this change, that it IS happening.

So there you have it. Taiwan’s democracy and identity is preserved, and ‘one-China’ is also preserved. The only casualty of the process will be one party rule on the mainland. Democracy is the strongest form of government for economic management and for the good of the people. Democracy can eliminate a great deal of the corruption existing in China’s power structure.

Likewise a “republic” can and will solve and great number of China’s internal problems.

The ball is in the court of those on the mainland. Reform and getting back to the original plan is the only way to solve the problems.

In fact, the Chinese people and the American people are friends - it is just their governments that do not get along.

PS...China's resentment of Japan stems from a racial perspective, not one of a political system, or from personal responsibility of those people who did those things.

1 posted on 10/18/2001 10:02:07 PM PDT by super175
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To: super175
US support for the KMT (both then and now) calls into open and blunt question CCP rule.
2 posted on 10/18/2001 10:04:21 PM PDT by super175
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To: super175
Nothing like the Chinese watching Russia and the US work together more than they ever could have imagined on the War on Terrorism to get their act in line. Even they can read the writing on the Great Wall
4 posted on 10/18/2001 10:15:04 PM PDT by stilts
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To: tallhappy; Lake
One more thing... the CCP has to move those missiles away from Taiwan... totally. This whole idea of intimidation is not working, nor winning Beijing any friends.

At the very best, all it is doing is satisfying demands of the ignorant on the inside of the Mainland...

11 posted on 10/18/2001 10:57:15 PM PDT by super175
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To: super175
Taiwan has to realize reality. When I say that I do not mean (and never will) that Beijing or the CCP will be their rulers. I do mean though that they have to realize that there is (or should be) fundamental changes going on in China. Despite the fact that the KMT is not the ones bringing this change, that it IS happening.

The reality is Taiwan is not part of China. Everyone knows it.

Taiwan knows about the fundamental changes in China better than anyone. And they exploit them better as well.

Many if not most people of Taiwan are not against being part of China because it is drummed in to their head from an early age. With the death of Chinag Ching-kuo and collapse of old school KMT that brainwashing is ending.

The only solution is de jure recognition of Taiwan.

Later they can unify or not.

Really when you say, "I do not mean (and never will) that Beijing or the CCP will be their rulers," it is difficult to know exactly what you are saying.

It's nice to think of a free China with Taiwan a part of it, but the Taiwan part is really superfluous.

Taiwan never really has been part of China and whether it is part of a free China or not is not very important.

A free China is a bigger issue.

Taiwan was not part of China when the Qing dynasty defeated the Ming (in fact Chinese people didn't even have any presence as a society there and never had).

When the Qing fell in 1911 and Dr Sun became the first President and the Republic was formed, Taiwan was not part of China.

The whole issue is nonsense and artificially imposed on Taiwan by despotic regimes, the Qing and Japanese first and the CCP and KMT later.

Mao and Chiang are dead more than a qarter century. Why does the US act as Mao's surrogate?

Why is our policy determined by long dead despots? It makes no sense.

13 posted on 10/18/2001 11:20:00 PM PDT by tallhappy
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To: super175
President Jiang Zemin, who was among the first foreign leaders to telephone President George W. Bush after the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, has handled the crisis well. He has condemned the September 11 assaults, expressed his shock and condolences to the American people, and reiterated his full support for the fight against terrorism.

Can that be that Mr. Putin was the FIRST foreign leader to express outrage and condemnation for the 9/11 attack? Can that be, that, in light of the outstanding cooperation, between US and Russian military strategist and the willingness of former soviet states to allow unconditioned access to their land and military facilities, to strike Afganistan?
Me thinks the china mens are just realising that their so called strategic alliance with ol'Russia if falling by the way side, because the good ol'USofA has way more to offer to mother Russia than China. Mr.Putin is an old fox, and he knows very well who is who and the chinese have no chance of beating USofA in any aspect economically or politically when it comes to Russia's benefit.

Well, it's saving face one more time for the chinese leaders, by ever so grudgendly acknowledging our actions in the Afganistan theather are right to root out the terrorism. They did not endorse it, nor did they condemmed it, it was just your garden variety of chinese wishi/washi as usual. It looks like having strong principals and standing for something you believe in is a strange custom to the chinese. No wonder one of their biggest display in any of their important events is...a SNAKE!
Do I have to say more!!!!!

20 posted on 10/19/2001 12:37:19 AM PDT by danmar
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To: super175
Most Chinese people

Most Chinese people are slaves, and who cares what a slave thinks?.

---max

41 posted on 10/20/2001 11:14:25 AM PDT by max61
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To: LSJohn
bump this thread...
89 posted on 10/21/2001 10:24:11 AM PDT by super175
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To: super175
Communism was not really such a big deal. We let ourselves fool ourselves into thinking was. Revolutions per se are more important, but they still just represent a Chaotic (as in science, not so much government) singular event point in the evolution of a nation. In fact, Communism was always just a white wash over the real factors, and we confuse the real base factors with Communism. Russia was more adaptable to it because the serfs didn't own much of anything anyways. They didn't have banks and banking, just mattresses, so they hardly missed it. China has always though of itself as separate isolationist, so Mao's isolationism was Chinese based, not Communist based.

The First American Revolution succeed to a great extent because it actually had a lot of British support. The Second One hasn't been completed because the base concepts of the Founders are still relatively exotic to most Americans in practice. The French Revolution is perhaps the most fascinating of all because he revolved on itself in several permutations. Still, the French remained just as impossible now as they were before.

It is always best to go back and long at the long term nationalistic imperatives and give them more credit than superficial ideologies.

China will be a play in Afghanistan, though most likely a player in the background. The recent scene between Bush and North Korea is a clue. It looks to me to just be an excuse to let Chinese military hardware, perhaps produced in Korean factories, into afghanistan to do to us what we did to the Russians. What goes around comes around.

165 posted on 10/29/2001 6:35:58 AM PST by Elihu Burritt
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To: super175
Yes, China is all too happy for us to eliminate the terrorist threat for them in their part of the world and beyond while they sit back and smile knowing they will not be targeted for anything WE do on their behalf. The Chinese are ungrateful, backstabbing, lying bastards. Let them do their own terrorist removal and stay the hell out of our way when we have to do it for ourselves. Screw China, they're an enemy, not an ally.
207 posted on 11/03/2001 1:12:48 AM PST by Imperial Warrior
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To: super175
China wants acceptance and respect. China wants free trade and further economic allinaces. China wants a leadership role in the world stage. China wants.......Who cares what China wants? Only China naturally. I'm interested in what is best for the United States and our people, not what pleases a communist totalitarian regime that wants recognition and legitimacy without earning it through actions and deeds, esepcially human rights, individual liberty, and social freedom. To date, China has done little or nothing to earn such status and has in fact shown that it is even more willing to violate these concepts while at the same time demanding the respect and admiration of a civilized nation worthy of trade and commerce with western societies. In my opinion, further trade with them, especially preferential trade, rewards their brutality and inhumanity towards their own people and us. Our gestures of trade and commerce haven't "transformed" a communist superstate into a democracy, it has only made a totalitarian dictatorship into a superpower that threatens us with the same brutality that they impose on their own population. It's time to end China's preferential trade status with us and seek to expand trade opportunities within our own society and sphere of influence. We must reward friends and punish enemies that consistently oppose and threaten us. It's not brain surgery.
218 posted on 11/05/2001 11:56:48 AM PST by Imperial Warrior
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To: super175
CHINA is a bully that is hell-bent on conquest and expansion. CHINA will never exist in a non-comunist political system. CHINA is several regions held together by force. Tibet, Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, Taiwan, and East Turkestan do not want to be part of "CHINA". CHINA is currently involved in a nasty agrument called the spratly islands dispute. This dispute involves Malaysia, Phillipines, Taiwan, Vietnam and Brunei. Basically, CHINA is using its size and military might to steal land from these smaller countries. CHINA is currently having boundary disputes with all of these nations: Russia, Tajikstan, North Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Japan, and India. no other nation on the planet has so many arguments with so many nations about land. it is obvious that CHINA is the culprit. Eventually CHINA break apart just as the Soviet Union did. Untill then, millions of captive people will be suffering. The sooner CHINA falls, the better.
224 posted on 11/07/2001 4:05:52 AM PST by mamelukesabre
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