Recipe for Losing a "War"

my opinion | 10/27/01 | me

[Cobra64]

Korea 1950s, this was a "conflict" while we lost 50,000 Americans killed. No Delaration of War.

Viet Nam 1960s-1970s, referred to as the Viet Nam war, another +50,000 Americans killed. No Declaration of War. Military logistics micro-managed from the White House and Capitol Hill

Fast forward... September/October, 2001. "We are at War, according to President Bush. No Declaration of War

Recent articles and editorials by retired senior military officials believe that again, just as in Viet Nam, Washington DC is micromanaging military logistics in Afghanistan.

Someone once said, "those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it."

[cliff630]

RE # 11:

If we cease the bombing , or even reduce it, during Ramadan the USA
has essentially admitted the coalition is more important than winning
the war. Also, if the terrorists try to use mosques as sanctuaries
and we fail to take themout we are playing
a cruel hoax on the soldiers on the field.

How can we possibly win a war where we fight against an enemy who knows
no rules but we try to follow rules set up by CNN.

I just wish Rumsfield et al would just ignore those questions about
our bombs hitting civilians. In war, civilians are just support troops.

[Chapita]

It's time!

[my trusty sig]

And we're getting mocked by the swarthy ones. These guys are like fighting cocks; violence appears to be inbred. Even the carpet bombing by the Ruskies didn't faze them. They'll fight to the last man and others of their ilk will soon replace the dead. Plus, forget any motivation from true religious sentiment springing from their breasts. They're all power-mad warlords, every last mullah, Saddam, Osama, every last one of them. In their diseased minds, all human affairs revolve around power, control, domination, subjugation.

Have this thing drag on for years? I want to go for broke. The lesson of Hama. Neutron bombs anyone?

Then I’d put the women in charge. I envision a gorgeous wall high tapestry of sewn together petrified scrotal sacs as a permanent remembrance of (certain of) man’s inhumanity to the distaff side of life.

[biffalobull]

I guess we have a kinder gentler war

With all due respect Mercy, I don't think there is such a thing as a kind or gentle war. I am sure the 1 0r 2 million refugees in Afganistan would agree with me.

We should either declare war and send in thousands of ground troops, and quit fooling around with them, or get out. Regards

[jammer]

I agree with you 100% (except that you could have added the Gulf "War"). And we have terrible side-effects: the near disintegration of our society with Vietnam, wounding the tiger (Saddam), but leaving him to fight another day, and, it appears, the rapid accretion of federal control of our lives in this one.

[mercy]

Of course. Surely you could see I was being sarcstic. Unless we can get Schwartzkopf to come out of retirement or 'miracle of miracles' there's another Schwartzkopf hiding just under the joint chiefs level ... Bush has lost this war already.

[illstillbe]

Bush has lost this war already..

mercy, my friend ... how can you say that?!

How can any of us say this?!

It has not even been 2 months ... we have not even completed the beginning of the beginning.

What if there had been a capability to perform play by play ... bomb for bomb reporting during WWII ... would we all be here saying, indignantly ... "What are we doing in Cherbourg ...or Maknassy Italy? .... I can't even find that place on my globe... Why are we in Tunisia, for heaven's sake. WE NEED TO BOMB THE CROUTS ... but we are all over the map! Sheeez! What's Roosevelt thinking?! We've become Churchill's lapdog, we have ..."

We've the smartest, brightest, most dedicated .... experienced Warriors on our side ...

WE NEED PATIENCE ... I say, impatiently ...

[mercy]

ok ok ok. From YOU I'll take my medicine. I have rewritten that line in my latest vanity inspired by my inspiration to which you are responding. Thanks. LINK

[max61]

Your observation(s) are right on. IMO, the lack of a declaration of war is capitulation to failure. If we as a nation cannot declare war, then we are not really serious about the matter and in the end, we will look like losers to the rest of the world. A declaration of war by Congress would emphatically state that we as a nation are serious and will do whatever it takes to defeat the enemy.

What we have now will amount to no more than yet another governmental program with it's own bureaucracy.

---max

[TheLion]

Geez, we've only been at this a short time. It has nothing to mirror Korea or Viet-nam. Getting tire of "we are messing this up" type of posts recently. These things take a little time.

[Jim Noble]

Attacks by barbarians require a response that barbarians can comprehend.

Bombarding them with MREs and proclaiming that their fighting faith is a "religion of peace" is incomprehensible to them.

If we cannot or will not fire their villages and put their women and children to the sword, we should get out of there.

[laconic]

Remember Nixon's 1972 Christmas Bombing of North Vietnam with massed flights of B52s that made the liberals so angry? Its because it WORKED. Perhaps that's what's needed in Afghanistan.

[Jim Noble]

>>Have you seen any of them that looks or sounds like Patton?<<

If you recall, the first eight months of WWII (for the US) was an unmitigated disaster.

And Patton wasn't called for until after the Kasserine Pass fiasco.

This war will be no different. Our officer corps is compromised with opportunists and peacetime losers.

After we lose a few battles, the warriors will start to surface, as they did in 1862, 1918, and 1942-43.

[Ender1978]

I'm sitting in Sherman's hometown (Lancaster Ohio) right now. We have plenty of different testaments here in town to that Sherman's philosophy in war. I think what the politicos are trying to avoid is WWIII. And as Einstein said, "I do not know with what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones." Or perhaps you prefer Baron Jomini: "The means of war are approaching perfection with frightening rapidity." Don't get me wrong: I agree with you: total war now; peace later. But, at least our current leaders aren't spouting Cold War bulldung about "Domino Theories" and the like: Reagan demonstrated that superiority (of mind, of law, of culture)will, over time, assert itself. And it will do so, in this situation, as well. At least they're thinking about the "after the war" phase, 'cause just like there's always another war, there's also always a postwar phase, and we don't want to repeat Versailles in 1919.


Here's a funny, from my website,
www.contemporaryinsanity.org

enjoy.

[laconic]

Good point; but I am afraid of Robert McNamara-type "incrementalism", "gradualism" and "increasing the pain". It doesn't work with savages; they will try to show you just how much more pain they can take. Eliminate them and they will feel no pain and have none to brag about to their sympathisers in the Muslim world. What will work best with them is the Taliban's total eradication from an Earth which they have proven themselves unfit to share.

[Cobra64]

FYI, I sent a note to many friends of mine, with this site's (URL) bookmarked to them. I hope this thread stays up for a week or so before it's pulled. Some of my friends travel a lot overseas and may not be able to pick up your savvy comments!

Hang in there guys, we'll get the job done! God Willing!

[Frohickey]

You got me here, sir. If memory serves correctly, Lyndon Johnson was the President who mouthed the words, "War on Poverty" and the "War on Drugs" in his Great Society doctrine. Again, Congree never declared war on these either. Actually I'm not sure how that can be done under the Constitution. However, in the case on War on Drugs, convicted drug lords should have been executed (public hangings), considering the number of Americans who die each year due to drug abuse. I know this sounds pretty radical, but in war time, the enemy is supposed to die.

Nah. The recreational drugs industry (cocaine/marijuana/heroin) should be legalized and taxed. How about 10% excise tax on that to fund cultivation and testing of the drugs for purity and safety. Oh, of course, there is sales tax for the states, federal income tax for the manufacturers, capital gains tax for the shareholders, state income tax for the workers and also luxury tax. ;)