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Ex-Soviet Teaching Marines Hand-to-Hand Combat ...
AP | October 27, 2001 | Matthew Barakat

Posted on 10/27/2001 11:48:12 AM PDT by BluH2o

QUANTICO, Va. (AP) - In a world of smart bombs and high-tech fighter planes, the Marines are putting a new emphasis on hand-to-hand combat training.

And one of the men the Corps has enlisted to help teach the tactics and conditioning required for close-in warfare is an ex-Soviet drill instructor who prepared Soviet special forces for the ``mud war'' they fought in Afghanistan during the 1980s.

Pavel Tsatsouline, who has since become a U.S. citizen and a fitness guru and author, has spent the past week training Marine instructors in the techniques he taught Soviet soldiers.

Tsatsouline's techniques have not yet been officially adopted by the Marines, but they won high praise from Lt. Col. George Bristol, who leads the Marines' new martial arts program.

Bristol said the war in Afghanistan, with pockets of terrorists in mountains and caves, shows the need for well-honed skills in hand-to-hand combat.

``No matter how high-tech it gets, it's going to be a mud war,'' Bristol said. ``And there's going to come a time when they're going to say, `Send in the Marines.' And we're going to go.''

The emphasis on hand-to-hand combat is a not a response to the current situation, Bristol said. Rather, the Marine Corps commandant decided more than a year ago that all Marines need to be better prepared to deal with the one-on-one combat situations that circumstances could thrust upon them.

As a result, all Marine officers, whether they will become desk jockeys or commandos, must obtain at least the equivalent of a tan belt in martial arts, with the opportunity for more extensive instruction.

The martial arts taught by the Marines are adapted for military situations, Bristol said.

``I don't care if Bruce Lee were here, he wouldn't be ready for martial arts as a Marine. Basically, we're training Marines to kill,'' Bristol said.

In Tsatsouline's drills, the emphasis is on seemingly small details that maximize strength and power. For instance, he showed the Marines a corkscrew motion on bayonet thrusts that helps lock the weapon into its victim. Breathing techniques are taught to increase the power of punches and kicks.

The Marines who trained with Tsatsouline said they have little doubt that the techniques will be put to use.

``People have lost sight of war. They've got this concept that we're not going to need ground troops or hand-to-hand combat,'' said 2nd Lt. Nathan Cahoon. ``I think people are realizing in the current situation that it's not the case.''


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Attended my platoons re-union at Parris Island in early May of this year. We were escorted the two days we were there by a DI who acted as a guide and tour director. He took us to two different areas where hand-to-hand combat training was underway. The emphasis on this type of training was apparent, it was much more extensive than our hand-to-hand training 35 years ago. Further, proficiency is expected to be maintained through out your tour in the Corps.
Semper Fi ...
1 posted on 10/27/2001 11:48:13 AM PDT by BluH2o
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To: BluH2o
The Spetnaz were nuts about hand-to-hand training.

Who'd have imagined this kind of crossover

2 posted on 10/27/2001 11:55:39 AM PDT by El Sordo
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To: RaceBannon
ping
3 posted on 10/27/2001 12:02:03 PM PDT by Chapita
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To: BluH2o
who prepared Soviet special forces for the ``mud war'' they fought in Afghanistan during the 1980s.

Didn't the Soviet special forces run home with their tail between their legs in that little ole war?

4 posted on 10/27/2001 12:05:53 PM PDT by Glenn
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To: BluH2o
I met a former USMC CQC firearms instructor in February. He was mid 20's and very firm about believing that only cops and military should have guns. I hope he's not typical of the folks in Quantico.

FWIW, the most impressive h-t-h instuctor I ever met was a former French Foreign Legionaire. He was in his 40's at the time, and could truly kick ass.

5 posted on 10/27/2001 12:10:01 PM PDT by Eagle Eye
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To: El Sordo
The Russians often infiltrated oppostion groups as provocateurs. These infiltrators had to be able to get themselves out of tight situations without guns. Alas, one result of this is the high quality of Mafia "muscle" in Russia.
6 posted on 10/27/2001 12:39:54 PM PDT by eno_
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To: BluH2o
Pavel Tsatsouline's videos can be ordered at http://www.dragondoor.com/ . The VRWC strikes again. Connect the dots on this one.
7 posted on 10/27/2001 12:49:00 PM PDT by Dialup Llama
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To: BluH2o
Good idea. I'd bring in some Korean and Okinawin instructors also.
8 posted on 10/27/2001 12:55:58 PM PDT by RLK
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To: Dialup Llama
If you've a few spare moments heres some short videos on line of the military skills to be imparted
9 posted on 10/27/2001 1:03:14 PM PDT by Governor StrangeReno
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To: BluH2o
Please don't tell me we are Just Now Starting This when we knew one day the time would come!!! God help Us
10 posted on 10/27/2001 1:04:56 PM PDT by horsewhispersc
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To: BluH2o
All the newly minted 2nd LT's from Quantico will be taught "new" uses for the ceremonial sword.....mine is up in the attic.....
11 posted on 10/27/2001 1:57:06 PM PDT by ken5050
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To: RLK
I'd bring in some Korean and Okinawin instructors also.

We have the highest ranking Tae Kwon Do Master in the entire world right here already. Sok Ho Kang, a naturalized American from South Korea, is a NINTH Dan Black Belt. That's 9 steps above Black Belt.

Master Kang was the head of martial arts instruction for the Republic of Korea Armed Forces and the National Police Force, and was responsible for the training and programs that made the ROKs such hand to hand bad asses. He was selected to be the first US Olympic Tae Kwon Do coach when the sport made its inaugaral appearance at the '88 Seoul Olympics.

12 posted on 10/27/2001 2:22:42 PM PDT by jrewingjr
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To: horsewhispersc
Please don't tell me we are Just Now Starting This when we knew one day the time would come!!!

Hand-to-hand combat has been around in the Corps for a long time ... the difference today is the
up-graded quality and emphasis on maintaining proficiency. As far as smoking the enemy out of caves the Marines are very experienced with that concept, going back to WWII, where flame throwers were very effective ... Iwo Jima is an excellent example.

13 posted on 10/27/2001 3:03:21 PM PDT by BluH2o
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: BluH2o
MARINE BUMP. Semper Fi, Mike
16 posted on 10/27/2001 5:23:23 PM PDT by HEFFERNAN2
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To: BluH2o; Chapita; real saxophonist; MudPuppy
I was in 77 to 81 and never got any hand to hand trainig except for boot camp. The only Martial Arts training I ever got was from kickboxing on the hanger deck on my own against one of our pilot officers, or from taking Tae Kwon Do at Cheery point and Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii.

The Corps at this time spent NOTHING on hand to hand on me or anyone I served with. I was an Air Winger, and I went ut on flaots with many grunts, and they all told me they got NOTHING for hand to hand training past ITR. That shocked me. So, any training they get now is a blessing, but way too late in my opinion.

17 posted on 10/27/2001 5:23:50 PM PDT by RaceBannon
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To: DrTEJ
Given that the DIs don’t personally, physically, knock around recruits as much as they used to, my take on the documentary was that PI and SD are turning out good people as well as they ever have.

The physical demands today on a Marine recruit are as tough, or possibly even more demanding than in the so called "old Corps". The mental stress is far less ... the DI's are carefully monitored and have far less "face to face" time with recruits. Recruits today are even allowed to voice an opinion ... which drives Marine DI's off the deep end. Before the touchy feely crowd came along, during the Clinton era, Marine DI's were given a great deal of latitude in Marine recruit development. Today, at least to this point, they are still having to deal with the carry over from the Clinton era.
In fact the Army, Navy, Air Force training allows recruit stress cards. If they feel they're stressed they simply display the card and are taken aside for gentle counseling.

18 posted on 10/27/2001 5:53:01 PM PDT by BluH2o
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To: RaceBannon
When I was in during the first Bush Administration, we had a pretty good bit of hand to hand and bayonet training at Boot Camp. And by this time everybody was required to go to School of Infantry afterward, more hand to hand. After that, nope, but I was a Bandsman.

Here's something funny - For some reason this thread made me think of this.

19 posted on 10/27/2001 6:08:23 PM PDT by real saxophonist
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To: real saxophonist
Yeah ... a sharpened shovel would work well in hand-to-hand combat. Awhile back someone ran an article on a tommy-hawk (actually a hand held axe) manufactured by a company in Tennessee. High quality and expensive at around $250 per copy ... apparently certain special forces groups are big customers.
20 posted on 10/27/2001 6:21:09 PM PDT by BluH2o
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