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White Guys Need Not Apply (vanity)
University of Phoenix | 10/31/2001 | subterfuge

Posted on 10/31/2001 4:39:20 AM PST by subterfuge

Help FReepers!

Situation: I'm taking a Diversity class and as a humble white male I was sideswiped by the revelation from the instructor and all my class mates agreed that the "good-old white-boy" network exists, which I acknowledged, and that you can't make it to the top in all upper echelon positions in business and the world unless you are white. I replied that many minorities are succeeding today and gave Condaleeza Rice, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell and even Janet Reno (ick) as examples to which all in the room agreed that they were all tokens. I categorically rejected that in front of the whole class, which is made up of Mexican, Columbian and other South Americans. I know racism exists but seriously, can no minority make it to upper levels of power on merit?

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that I need to do a presentation on anything to do with Global Diversity and I intend to do this on reverse discrimination or something else that puts what we discussed in the proper perspective for my intructor and classmates.

To me it is so obvious they are practicing reverse discrimination. To generalize about ANY race is wrong, and that is what they have done in this case.

And so as not to make myself out to be lilly white, and as I told the class, I respect all people and my life proves that. I have dozens of minority friends including Vietnamese, Puerto Rican, A-Americans, cubans and my son-in-law is from Portugal who I love, FWIW.

So, any articles you guys can post would be greatly appreciated. I'll be leaving for work, so I won't be able to reply for a bit.

Thanks in Advance

God Bless America!!!


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Sorry for the vanity
1 posted on 10/31/2001 4:39:20 AM PST by subterfuge
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To: subterfuge
What, pray tell, are you doing in that class in the first place.
2 posted on 10/31/2001 4:45:20 AM PST by BlueCat
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To: subterfuge
Any system or program the uses anything other than inteligence and ability is morally wrong.
3 posted on 10/31/2001 4:47:46 AM PST by BADJOE
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To: subterfuge
Last time I checked, everyone in the top levels of Mexican government was Mexican. Same with China, Kenya...

I've also noticed a lot of Japanese heading Japanese corporations.

4 posted on 10/31/2001 4:50:46 AM PST by Dakmar
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To: subterfuge
This is precisely what is wrong with higher education today.
5 posted on 10/31/2001 4:52:21 AM PST by 2right
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To: subterfuge
At the base of all this diversity crap is the assumption that one does not have the right to associate by choice. Freedom of association is a basic human right and one of the first to go under a Nanny state.

Do we want a free society or an equal society? Liberals want equal results and no freedom. Libertarians want freedom and equal treatment under the law.

6 posted on 10/31/2001 4:52:54 AM PST by Lysander
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To: subterfuge
Why are you even bothering to take such a moronic class?? Even if it is just to fulfill some BS "humanities" requirement, couldn't you have picked another option??

Anyway, since you're stuck there, may as well have some fun and speak your mind. Just remember -- all the losers loading up on such fluff courses in college will be working in Mc D's when they get out. Make sure to take a REAL major (Science, Math, etc.) If you really like the English and History stuff, do a double major. Good Luck!!

7 posted on 10/31/2001 4:53:38 AM PST by LN2Campy
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To: Dakmar
It must be a conspiracy-- I'll start checking for black helos after I donn my tinfoil hat . . . .
8 posted on 10/31/2001 4:54:06 AM PST by Nat Turner
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To: subterfuge
Hey I saw your headline and had to wade in

effff that diversity crap

sign me....

WhiteGuy

9 posted on 10/31/2001 4:54:07 AM PST by WhiteGuy
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: subterfuge
Check your private mailbox.
11 posted on 10/31/2001 4:54:46 AM PST by silmaril
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: subterfuge
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I think the guy that said this was an American who happened to be black.

This and what BADJOE said should get you kicked out of that class in no time.

The types teaching and (other than you)taking that class are wolloring in their own self pity and trying to take advantage of the charitable nature of America. They should be ashamed.

13 posted on 10/31/2001 4:59:08 AM PST by Delta 21
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To: subterfuge
This guy must work for that company based in Murray Hill, NJ
14 posted on 10/31/2001 5:01:08 AM PST by dtom
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To: subterfuge
Been there, done that. I had to waste a couple of quarters being taught by:

a woman who left her husband and kids to embrace the lesbian lifestyle

a bitter black man who found a flameproof pulpit

a young socialist associate prof desperately seeking tenure.

IIRC, the best I could do was get other students to be more strident (and thus more ridiculous), but the instructors were indoctrinated with class/racial/sexual envy right up to their eyeballs. Consider not being in the least apologetic in front of these racist, sexist manipulators, because when they smell blood, they assume they are free to come in for the kill with impunity. The best-kept secret in America is still this: conservatives actually have hearts, the left just make the claim.

Ed

15 posted on 10/31/2001 5:01:24 AM PST by niteowl77
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To: subterfuge
Psssssst . . . fudgetersub . . . just try rubbing a little bit of burned cork on your ugly white puss !!! Then you won't need to go through all this other nonsense !!! :-))
16 posted on 10/31/2001 5:02:44 AM PST by GeekDejure
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To: subterfuge
To me it is so obvious they are practicing reverse discrimination. To generalize about ANY race is wrong, and that is what they have done in this case.

They are putting into practice the main principle underlying "diversity" studies:

Whiteness is Racism. It is racist to celebrate, support, or approve of any white person, identity, culture, interest, or cause. It is equally racist not to celebrate, support, or approve of any non-white person, identity, culture, interest, or cause.

17 posted on 10/31/2001 5:04:29 AM PST by ThreeOfSeven
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To: subterfuge
Check out Ward Connerly personal story and his stuggle to get the California Civil Rights Initiative passed a few years back. Here's a few links to get you started. Just copy and paste to get to them.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/574754.asp
http://www.reason.com/ml/ml053101.html
http://www.booknotes.org/transcripts/50564.htm

18 posted on 10/31/2001 5:06:20 AM PST by SamKeck
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To: subterfuge
It sounds like a class in desperate need of an injection of intellectual thought. As it stands now, it's a huge waste of tuition. The college should be closed for committing fraud and theft.
19 posted on 10/31/2001 5:09:41 AM PST by Russ
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To: subterfuge
I categorically rejected that in front of the whole class, which is made up of Mexican, Columbian and other South Americans.

You are in a no win situation. Latins by nature are comparable to our democrats. You get the picture. I have never met a conservative Latin outside the U.S. It’s a “me me” society. My advice, for whatever it’s worth, is drop that dang wacko class.

20 posted on 10/31/2001 5:13:12 AM PST by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: subterfuge
I forgot to mention that I live in Latin America.
21 posted on 10/31/2001 5:14:32 AM PST by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: LN2Campy
"Make sure to take a REAL major (Science, Math, etc.) If you really like the English and History stuff, do a double major."

Absolutely good advice. I hope he listens.
And reads history, from old books, before it was re-written to conform to PC.
PC =(Pure Crap)

22 posted on 10/31/2001 5:18:23 AM PST by ThinkNot
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To: subterfuge
Check out certain postal districts where you can't seem to get hired if your hispanic or white only black. Then go to any major city or metro county government and see who gets hired. You could also do extensive research on the KMCO school district. They just hired a top guy there who thinks that only black teachers can teach black kids. White teachers in this district are harrassed by black administrators and black parents.
23 posted on 10/31/2001 5:21:09 AM PST by KSCITYBOY
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To: subterfuge
Let me get this straight. The Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, and a Justice of the Supreme Court are tokens?????

Here's a link to Walter Williams who is as he likes to say "Black by Popular Demand". Occasional guest host for Rush Limbaugh and all around good guy.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams.archives.asp

Here is one article that addresses the idea your class was expressing.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams040401.asp

Share and enjoy.

24 posted on 10/31/2001 5:29:28 AM PST by Rutherford
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To: subterfuge
A lot of good ideas for you here, not including dropping the class however. I assume you need it for whatever reason. In any case, have fun with it. A couple of suggestions:

Get "The Quest for Cosmic Justice" off the library shelf and check out the first couple of chapters. Sowell covers this issue quite well. He distinguishes "Equal Opportunity" from "Equal Results" which your class will attempt to work with. Don't play that "Equal Results" game. Sowell has some great historical perspective on that. If nothing else convinces them that inequality of results is not necessarily indicative of discrimination, then ask them to describe the racial makeup of the NBA, and what should be done about that.

There are a host of good references out there, for example: The Diversity Myth, by Sacks and Thiel, as well as the one mentioned above. Read them and use them! Good luck.

25 posted on 10/31/2001 5:38:36 AM PST by MACVSOG68
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To: LN2Campy
Actually many of those who take these courses end up teaching your kids, if they attend the public school system. These diversity classes are required as part of the teaching curriculum.
26 posted on 10/31/2001 5:38:55 AM PST by RichGuy
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To: MACVSOG68
Good advice!!!
27 posted on 10/31/2001 5:42:27 AM PST by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: subterfuge
I am writing a book on corporate programs and the effect they are having on American business. Not just diversity, but that is a big one. The premise behind "diversity" is that under any circumstances a diverse group will perform better than a homogeneous group. One of the most idiotic things I have read is when an individual is measured for their innate "diversity". That doesn't even make sense. One person cannot be racially, culturally, spiritually, etc. diverse. So diversity has been redifined to mean minority. Now ask the following question: If you had a brain tumor that required an operation that had a low success rate, and there were 10 surgeons in the world who do that procedure, what would be your number 1 criteria: 1. Religious Background 2. Race 3. Success Statistics on the procedure 4. History of diverse hiring practices 5. Culture/Nationality Any person who does not choose 3 is full of s&^t. Then it quite easily follows that if ability is the determining factor here, why not in any situation. Diversity consultants say they pursue the best performance, and that it can be achieved only by diverse hiring practices. Reasonable people say that hiring the best person gets you the best performance. This medical analogy totally destroys their premise. Another analogy, and one they particularly hate, can be made with sports, and especially basketball, where it is obvioulsy not diversity that makes up the composition of the team. Do we all realize how much money is wasted by companies in which many of us own stock? Check the website of a major corporation and you will quickly find evidence that millions are spent to put on "the diversity happy face". It is the way the left is penetrating our capitalist system outside the political realm. It will take our industries down in the end, and the situation we are in today with the idealogical tug of war vs. the war effort is a direct result of the whining of diversity and tolerance proponants.
28 posted on 10/31/2001 5:45:45 AM PST by Derecha
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To: BADJOE
"Any system or program the uses anything other than inteligence and ability is morally wrong."

Amen. I'll 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th that. Everyone gets to rise to their own level of incompetence.
29 posted on 10/31/2001 5:47:07 AM PST by DonPaulJones
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To: subterfuge
If your employer request that you go to a gay diversity event I would challenge it under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Employers in the US are prohibited from discriminating against individuals because of their religion in hiring, firing, and other terms and conditions of employment. It also requires employers to reasonably accommodate the religious practices of an employee, unless to do so would create an undue hardship on the employer. You have the right to practice your faith to the same level as everyone else in your workplace. I think a reasonably accommodation would be not to attend the event because my religion dose not approve of this life style.
30 posted on 10/31/2001 5:47:19 AM PST by dtom
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To: Derecha; BlueCat; LN2Campy; jstrevino; GeekDejure
Thanks to all. I'm taking the class because its a requirement but frankly its a fluff degree called Batchelor of Science in Management- I'm older, have an established career, but I need a degree of some kind quickly.

And LN2Campy, I am having fun. I've already written papers on reverse discrimination and another on how wrong multicultrualism is regarding the VALUE of people and cultures. I challenge them at every turn almost. I like to pick my spots though. What is Geek Dejure saying? Anyone?

Thanks to all for the replies and I'll be right back.

31 posted on 10/31/2001 6:02:14 AM PST by subterfuge
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To: subterfuge
I take it that the University of Phoenix is requiring that you take this class. That's a private university with a good reputation, I'm so shocked that such an organization would waste resources on this.

My advice is to speak as little as possible in the class, try to get through it with a B or a C and forget about it. It's pure junk.

But if the teacher insists on using you as the token white male to be either ridiculed or humbled in the class, then here's a nice strategy to get the teacher to stop that. Say something that advances conservative ideology or otherwise punches holes in the pc agenda. The teacher will not want you to speak any more.

It's always nice to say that racism and discrimination based on ethnicity or religion is common, it is a human trait and is common all over the world. Tell them about how in South Africa since there has been a black government in power the murder rate has skyrocketed to 10 times the murder rate in America, tell them about how when black people committ crimes against white people in south africa the police don't investigate the crimes, including murders and that is why the murder rate is so high. Tell them that in China one ethnic group, the Han Chinese, are a minority, but they rule the government and the business enterprises completely and make every other ethnic group subservient to them. Tell them there is massive discrimination against ethnic chinese and all non-muslim people in INdonesia and that this has resulted in the killing of a half million people in the last 30 years. Tell them that in Egypt the police routinely go through christian neighborhoods, kidnap people and then crucify them. All of this above is true. The world is full of massive discrimination between peoples based on ethnic/religious divisions. Tell them that only in America do we tend to overcome these things, that is why in history they've called us 'the New World'. Tell them that the reason we've been able to overcome these things in comparison to most other nations is because God has blessed us.

You also might share that here in the US when black people or mexican people get control of organizations that they frequently discriminate very much in favor of their own race. I live in Phoenix, I know of Mexican owned businesses that employ over 500 people and will hire a 99% Mexican work force. This type of discrimination is common. The law only says its discrimination when the discrimination is in favor of white people, that's reality.

Tell them we shouldn't be obsessed with race and ethnic background. Tell them that it causes divisions among us to be constantly dividing and categorizing ourselves in this manner.

32 posted on 10/31/2001 6:02:57 AM PST by Red Jones
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To: subterfuge
I was sideswiped by the revelation from the instructor and all my class mates agreed that the "good-old white-boy" network exists, which I acknowledged

Really? How do I get plugged into this network? I'm a "good-old white-boy" but don't seem to recall having the benefit of this network to advance my career. I've had to rely on silly little things like accomplishments, credentials, and experience.

33 posted on 10/31/2001 6:06:58 AM PST by LouD
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To: subterfuge
To me it is so obvious they are practicing reverse discrimination. To generalize about ANY race is wrong, and that is what they have done in this case.

Use one of their PC buzz words against them. Accuse them of RACIAL PROFILING.

34 posted on 10/31/2001 6:12:17 AM PST by knuthom
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To: subterfuge
This is like complaining that pounding your head on a wall hurts. The solution, if you pause for a moment to think, is obvious: don't do it.

The opinions of the people to whom you refer are set and there is nothing you can do about it -- which, in truth, permits you to do what you want without consideration to them.

Make the most of it :-)

35 posted on 10/31/2001 6:14:46 AM PST by dfrussell
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To: subterfuge
The "old-boy" system doesn't only exist in white America. Nepotism and favoritism are old traditions everywhere. It's racist to think that only whites practice the old-boy system. And America is probably the BEST place to get where you want on the merit system, contrary to what the leftists think.
36 posted on 10/31/2001 6:15:05 AM PST by GenXFreedomFighter
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To: Dakmar
Last time I checked, everyone in the top levels of Mexican government was Mexican. Same with China, Kenya... I've also noticed a lot of Japanese heading Japanese corporations.

Good come-backs Dakmar!! Gotta remember these!

37 posted on 10/31/2001 6:30:15 AM PST by subterfuge
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To: subterfuge
What is Geek Dejure saying? Anyone?

He's saying if you could pass for black you wouldn't have to apologize for being white.

38 posted on 10/31/2001 6:33:09 AM PST by ThreeOfSeven
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To: WhiteGuy
You have a cool nic...nothing to be ashamed of here, move along everyone. :}
39 posted on 10/31/2001 6:33:45 AM PST by subterfuge
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To: cdwright
Did you get in? And if so, how many trys did it take? I'm curious.
40 posted on 10/31/2001 6:34:49 AM PST by subterfuge
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To: subterfuge
Well!

Thank you very much

BTW, do you think I'm a White Male?

41 posted on 10/31/2001 6:39:01 AM PST by WhiteGuy
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To: Delta 21
The types teaching and (other than you)taking that class are wolloring in their own self pity and trying to take advantage of the charitable nature of America. They should be ashamed.

The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure most if not all the students in my class are getting financial aid from the gov't. The class costs $800.00 per 3 credit hours. Talk about gouging!

42 posted on 10/31/2001 6:40:08 AM PST by subterfuge
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To: edskid
. Consider not being in the least apologetic in front of these racist, sexist manipulators, because when they smell blood, they assume they are free to come in for the kill with impunity

I don't apologize except to say, "I'm sorry if this offends anyone," no actually I always forget to say that part. But I can no longer keep quiet no matter who the audience. If any other group can fight for "their people" then so can I. Thanks to FR and FReepers I have a lot more ammo and I'm a lot more aware of what the reality of these situations is.

43 posted on 10/31/2001 6:46:02 AM PST by subterfuge
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To: subterfuge
Stop acting like a fem for one. Second I see "diversity" has worked wonders on you so what is the complaint? If it is the fact that "whitey" is taking the short end that is too bad because every protagonist needs an antagonist and suprise you are it even given your lack of masculine qualities.
44 posted on 10/31/2001 6:46:33 AM PST by junta
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To: subterfuge
I'd give you odds that the professor is a liberal white. And it won't matter what "verifable proof" you present to this bigotted class! In their eyes your white, so...you're the cause of all evil in the world; they're justified in hating you but you must accept them or you're a bigot; they couldn't be prejudice or wrong about whites; and if it wasn't for prison they would kill you after they killed the dumb a$$, liberal, white professor first (and if the education system failed and you try to defend yourself against nonwhites you'll be charged with a hate crime.)
45 posted on 10/31/2001 6:46:34 AM PST by pke
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To: ThreeOfSeven
Whiteness is Racism. It is racist to celebrate, support, or approve of any white person, identity, culture, interest, or cause. It is equally racist not to celebrate, support, or approve of any non-white person, identity, culture, interest, or cause.

This is almost exactly what these people were saying. I said my piece and let them talk about how sensitive they are to others.

46 posted on 10/31/2001 6:50:22 AM PST by subterfuge
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To: subterfuge
If you feel like it, look through some wymin's studies and find information about "networking." All of the different groups have classes on networking. Ask them the question, "How come if I do it, it's a good old boy system, and if you do it, it's networking?" Point out that there's also a good old bro, good old gal, good old jew, good old mexican, and good old japanese network." If they don't agree with you, they're obviously racist against European whites, and need training in diversity.
47 posted on 10/31/2001 6:51:19 AM PST by Richard Kimball
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
I have never met a conservative Latin outside the U.S. It’s a “me me” society. My advice, for whatever it’s worth, is drop that dang wacko class.

Thanks for the reply Gat. The thing is, I do know conservatives who are Latin and they are friends of mine. However these people's views are not known for lots of the wrong reasons.

I'd love to drop the class but its a requirement. I'll get my A, but I'm going to enlighten as many as I can along the way. I know that with the help of FReepers that I'll have plenty of material for the presentation I'm going to give the class. At least some will see the error of their ways, I'm sure of it.

48 posted on 10/31/2001 6:55:44 AM PST by subterfuge
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
Perhaps you could give this confused lad (subterfuge) some advice on handling these proto-fascists.
49 posted on 10/31/2001 6:57:16 AM PST by junta
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To: subterfuge
If you want to be innoculated against the tripe you are being fed in this class, read The Bell Curve, by Herrnstein/Murray. It was a best seller in 1994 and the libs threw everything and the kitchen sink at the credibility of the book. It is 845 pages long, and once you pick it up, you will not be able to put it down. Every liberal PC myth is shot down. Not one liberal myth is left standing - not one!

You deserve to read this book. Read it in class, if you want to see some real fireworks.

50 posted on 10/31/2001 6:57:17 AM PST by Orion
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