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To: RaceBannon
The reformation was necessary, but the Baptists never needed to be reformed, they had it right all along.

Yeah, sure! < /sarcasm >

Don't the Baptist calim the "once saved, always saved" garbage?

47 posted on 10/31/2001 1:03:52 PM PST by RickyJ
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To: RickyJ
Don't the Baptist calim the "once saved, always saved" garbage?

Some -- though far from all -- Baptists hold to one of the five points of Calvinism -- the last one which Calvin called "perserverance of the saints." There are a few Baptist churches -very, very few -- which are 'hard-shell' Calvinists and hold to all five ('total depravity', 'unconditional election', 'limited atonement', irresistible grace' and 'perserverance').

Essentially, Luther and Calvin, in rebutting the abuses of the Roman Catholic church (RCC)(in purporting to appropriate to itself the power to 'dispense' the 'means of grace' -- "buy it here at a good price"), held that man played no role whatever in his salvation or damnation. They taught that God had decided it all before the foundation of the world -- some specific individuals went to Heaven and most went to Hell. (If it were true that man could play no part in finding salvation, it would make some sense that he could likewise play no role in subsequently rebelling either.)

Unfortunately, while hard-shell Calvinism is a neat little intellectual construct (and it certainly does defeat the RCC error), it is a vicious doctrine (sentencing hapless infants to Hell) which bears no resemblance to the central message of the Gospel as revealed in the New Testament, i.e. that Christ offers salvation to 'whosoever will' respond to His offer of it.

The vast, vast majority of Baptist groups believe in the offer of salvation revealed in the NT, but some believe that man loses his will once he accepts Christ and thereafter is a Calvinist automaton who cannot rebel. In their view, this avoids some of the obvious non-biblical viciousness of the first four points of Calvinism and it avoids the question of why a person would ever want to leave the fold of Christ -- once having known Him -- for sin.

However, because of its inherent inconsistency (why would God give men the opportunity to choose Christ and Life Eternal and then take it away at the point of salvation?), this view has little historical traction and is losing out in evangelical circles to the full Biblical view of free will.

So, the answer to your question is very few do continue to hold to the last point of Calvinism.

If you want to know Christ, forget manmade constructs such as Calvinism -- and forget organizations which claim they can save you -- and read the New Testament for yourself. Start with one of Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke or John) and meet the Master for yourself.

57 posted on 10/31/2001 1:42:55 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: RickyJ
Don't the Baptist calim the "once saved, always saved" garbage?

So what kind of garbage does RickyJ calim (sic).

Homer
RCIA, Week 12

73 posted on 10/31/2001 2:48:51 PM PST by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: RickyJ
Don't the Baptist calim the "once saved, always saved" garbage?

No...it's the Bible that sets that truth out. Baptists are merely repeating what the Word of God says.

85 posted on 10/31/2001 3:29:21 PM PST by garybob
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