Families shattered over arrest (Azmath illegal in US 9 years- John Doe2?)

Gee they were here long enough to be involved in the OKC truck bombing and the WTC van bombing.

and

I think that Mohammed Azmath, second guy from the left, is the same guy as John Doe#2 (the one on the far right) who is , who was supposedly seen with McVeigh around the time of the OKC bombing. I posted a response on 10/26 that said I thought he was. Was Tim McVeigh an agent of Iraq? .

Since then I've posted a 'merged' picture that shows a slightly transparent picture of Doe #2 placed over the picture of Azmath.

More recent threads on FR, concerning anthrax and Azmath's former roommates in New Jersey, makes me even more certain that Mohammed Jaweed Azmath is John Doe#2.

HUNT NARROWS FOR ANTHRAX SOURCE [feds home in on 1 postal route]

INS holding 2 men seized at apartment (anthrax letters - HANDWRITING link?)

(L to R, 1. Khan, 2. Mohmmed Azmath, merged picture of Azmath andJohn Doe#2, John Doe #2) I think Azmath (Pic #2)--looks like John Doe #2, especially around the eyes, but he is a little older and thinner. An eyewitness thought John Doe looked like a Cuban, and this guy looks like an angry Ricky Ricardo.

Also Azmath (pic #2) was suspected of being associated with someone involved in the WTC Van-bombing. Sounds similar to the OKC truck bombing.

This article shows that the two men have been in the US 9 years (long enough to be here for WTC bombing and OKC bombing) and lived in same neighborhood as men who were involved in 1993 WTC bombing.

Two Indians being quizzed by FBI

P BALU, NIHAL KOSHIE AND RAM KARAN
TIMES NEWS NETWORK HYDERABAD: Two men from Hyderabad, Mohammed Jaweed Azmath and Ayub Ali Khan, are among several suspects held in the United States in the wake of last Tuesday's terrorist attacks in New York and Washington. Azmath and Khan are said to be residents of Doodh Bowli in the Old City. It was the families of Azmath and Khan who noticed their pictures being flashed on television as two persons arrested from a train as suspects in the terrorist attacks.

Earlier, Azmath and Khan's families had contacted the relief helpline set up by the state government at the Secretariat here and gave the two men's names and details such as age and local address. According to their families, Khan and Azmath had planned to take a plane from New Jersey to Texas on September 11, but decided to take a train instead after the terrorist attack. Meanwhile, an agency report from Washington said the two men, when arrested from a train at Dallas, claimed they were Indians, and have been detained and taken for questioning in connection with the devastating terrorist strikes in the USA in which more than 5,000 people are feared killed.

Ayub Khan (51) and Azmath (47) were taken into custody on Sunday at a railway station in Fort Worth, Texas and were flown to New York for questioning. They were in custody "in the strongest possibility we have yet" in the nationwide Federal Bureau of Investigation probe,Texas law enforcement authorities said.

A New York report said the duo had told the authorities that they were Indians but Texas authorities said the men lied about their nationality and had no legitimate identification. The two men had $5,000-10,000 in cash and box cutters of the type used by the 19 terrorists who commandeered the hijacked jets that they smashed into the World Trade Center and Pentagon on September 11.

Authorities said Khan and Azmath had flown on Tuesday from Newark, New Jersey, on a flight bound for San Antonio, Texas but which was diverted and forced to land in St Louis after the attacks in New York and Washington.

The authorities said the two men then got on an Amtrak train but were pulled off it on Wednesday in Fort Worth for a drug check, which targeted several passengers at random.

The two were being held on possible immigration violation, although they were taken to New York for interrogation by the FBI’s joint terrorism task force. Law enforcement sources said they were trying to find out if Azmath and Khan could be linked to a doctor from San Antonio, who is also in custody, according to CNN TV network. The authorities on Saturday afternoon also searched the Jersey City apartment the two men had been sharing located in the same neighbourhood of some of the conspirators who plotted the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

According to their landlord in New Jersey, both men lived there for six or seven years and they worked at a stationery store in New York. According to Rabouth, the landlord,Azmath was recently out of the country for several months. Their neighbours in New Jersey, according to reports, said the duo were seen nearly every day, leaving very early and coming home late for the past several years until they disappeared about a week ago.

It's nice to see that the "my child could never do something like this" excuse crosses cultural boundaries. These parents are simply in denial...

Nice to know the men just got married this year. From the article below:Both visited India this year and got married in March. They returned to New Jersey in July after spending nearly eight months in their hometown, their relatives said.
Is marriage part of the pre-terrorist ritual--pass on your terrorist genes in a child before you die?

Police grill families of suspects

HYDERABAD: Police began questioning on Tuesday the families and neighbours of two Indians who have been detained by the FBI in New York regarding last week's terrorist attacks.

Police and intelligence officers checked the background of Mohammed Jaweed Azmat, 47, and Ayub Ali Khan, 51, by interviewing residents of a poor district in Hyderabad.

The two were removed from an Amtrak passenger train in Fort Worth, Texas last week after authorities said they found them with box-cutting knives, hair dye and $5,000 in cash.

US officials have said that terrorists used box-cutters in hijacking at least one of the four airplanes that crashed in the United States a week ago.

On the day of the terrorist attacks Azmat and Khan had been on a flight from New Jersey to Texas, but boarded the train when the flight was diverted to Missouri. The FBI detained them in Fort Worth and flew them to New York where they are being held as material witnesses in the investigation of the terrorist attacks.

The families recognised Azmat and Khan after their photos were shown by television networks. Azmat and Khan are friends who lived as neighbours in the Doodh Bowli district of Hyderabad.

"My son is a gentleman and a person devoted to his family ... How can he do such a thing?" said Mohammed Jahangir, Azmat's father.

The two had telephoned their families in Hyderabad two weeks ago and told them about their plans to move to Texas after losing their jobs in a New Jersey store, the relatives said.

"We haven't heard from them since then," said Jahangir.

Gul Mohammed Khan, a younger brother of Ayub Ali Khan, said the two had left for the United States nine years ago with Indian passports and valid U.S. work permits.

Both visited India this year and got married in March. They returned to New Jersey in July after spending nearly eight months in their hometown, their relatives said.

Azmat married a Pakistani citizen, Amina, who is pregnant, and living with her husband's family in Hyderabad, the family said.

Gul Mohammed Khan broke down as he recounted his brother's recent visit and then seeing his face on television in connection with the terrorist attacks. "It is the biggest shock of my life," he said.

HYDERABAD: "My son can never do such a thing," We have heard this same thing from EVERY ONE of the parents of these guys!

Families shocked at the arrest of Indian suspects by Syed Amin Jafri in Hyderabad

The two Indians who are among several suspects held in the United States in the wake of the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington hail from Hyderabad.

Before seeing the photographs of Mohammed Jaweed Azmath and Ayub Ali Khan flashed on international television channels and in local newspapers, their worried family members had made enquiries at the control room helpline opened by the Andhra Pradesh government at the state secretariat.

"We are shocked by their arrest. We are really worried. But we are sure they are innocent and have nothing to do with the attacks," said an uncle of Azmath.

"They had contacted us just 10 days ago and told us that since they lost their jobs in New Jersey, they were going to Texas to join a new employer," another family member said.

According to him, the two were not highly educated and had been working in a New Jersey store since going to the US about nine years ago. The duo had returned to Hyderabad in January and stayed for about six months before returning to the US.

"As soon as we heard of the attacks, we were worried for their safety. Hence, they phoned their employer in New Jersey and we were told that they had left to join their new employer in Texas," a brother of Khan said.

"We have been seeing the media reports. We are devastated by the news. Azmath's father has taken ill. His wife, who is pregnant, is worried," a relative said. Azmath's family lives in a house that was built recently with his savings from the US. His younger brother, wife, parents and other relatives stay in the house, just a furlong away from the Kamatipura police station.

The family has been receiving a stream of journalists since Tuesday morning, even as teams of police and intelligence officials have been visiting to gather information.

Khan's family, consisting of his wife, mother, brothers and other relatives, lives nearby.

Family members said both men hold Indian passports. "We do not know whether they have residential or work permits in the US. But we are sure they would not have indulged in terrorist activity. We hope they are able to prove their innocence," they said.

Azmath, 47, and Khan, 51, were taken into custody at a railway station in Fort Worth, Texas, on Sunday and taken to New York for questioning. They had flown from Newark, New Jersey, on September 11, the day of the terrorist attacks, on a flight headed for San Antonio, Texas. The flight was diverted to St Louis, Mississippi, after the attacks in New York and Washington.

The two men were pulled out of an Amtrak train in Forth Worth for a check by anti-narcotics officers. Finding that they did not possess relevant papers, the officers held Azmath and Khan for possible immigration violations. The Federal Bureau of Investigation later took them into custody.

They had a few thousand dollars in cash and box cutters of the type used by the hijackers, according to the FBI.

Subsequently, investigators raided the Jersey City apartment that the men had been sharing and made enquiries with their employers and landlords.

Kin of Indian suspects quizzed by FBI

Syed Amin Jafri in Hyderabad

Two agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation have questioned some family members of the two Indian suspects -- Ayub Ali Khan and Mohammed Azmath Jaweed -- who are in custody in the United States in the wake of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centre and Pentagon. The Hyderabad police refused to confirm the reports about the visit of the two-member team. However, sources said that one FBI agent from the US and another from its liaison office in Delhi arrived in the city on Thursday.

Inquiries centred around the background of the duo, their educational and passport details and monetary transactions since they went to the US.

The IB also shared with the FBI officials, details of the investigations carried out in India.

The FBI team is expected to fly back to Delhi on Saturday, the sources added.

You got me to searching for more connections, I never knew about this before:

All of the above raise some very serious questions. Near the top of the list are questions concerning how Hussain and his fellow former Iraqi soldiers got into the country and what kind of security investigations, if any, were conducted. During 1993 and 1994, President Clinton brought several thousand "former" Iraqi soldiers to America for "resettlement." Under angry prodding from the American Legion and the VFW, Congress expressed feeble "outrage" and called on the President to halt the program. The Administration never provided Congress with the information it had requested on the "resettlement." It may be, of course, that Mr. Hussain and his comrades are perfectly innocent immigrants seeking asylum from Saddam Hussein’s evil clutches, as they claim. But it should be remembered that when "master bomber" Ramzi Yousef entered the U.S. on an Iraqi passport in 1992 he also claimed to be seeking asylum and claimed to be a member of a Kuwaiti resistance group fighting Saddam Hussein. And he was not the first. Many intelligence reports had cited the aggressive effort by Saddam to infiltrate his agents into the U.S. during and after the Gulf War. In fact, the Washington Post reported on January 28, 1991 that, according to "highly classified U.S. intelligence reports," Saddam Hussein had "dispatched more than 100 terrorists, both experienced and novice, to try to infiltrate the United States." What would be the political fallout if it were discovered that Mr. Clinton’s Iraqi "defectors" had a hand in the OKC bombing?

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1998/vo14no19/vo14no19_mideast.htm
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1995/vo11no18/vo11no18_john_does.htm

Thanks for the overview and the links to the informative articles. I've just read them and I've saved the links for future reference, too.

The articles bring up many interesting points including the tendency of bombing masterminds to flee on an airplane soon after the explosion they've arranged. The information on all the Middle Easterners who came to the US after Desert Storm is eyeopening, too.

I especially noticed this (from the first link) ....

Terrorist expert Neil C. Livingstone was quoted in The Globe on May 16, 1995 with this observation: "There is a remarkable similarity between the methods used by Islamic terrorists in the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut, the attack on the World Trade Center, and the bombing in Oklahoma. The truckload of explosives is almost a signature or calling card and it is the weapon of choice among these groups." Livingstone, the author of several books on terrorism, continued: "Very typically, these terrorists have found homegrown radicals to use as dupes in the actual bombings. They have supplied the money and the technical expertise and highly skilled operatives to guide a project and then get out of town before they can be apprehended. This is exactly what happened in the World Trade Center assault, and now they are furious that we have apprehended one of their team leaders [Yousef] and brought him back here for trial."
Similarly, in April 1995 Vincent Cannistrero, former Chief of Counterterrorism for the CIA, authored an article for the Boston Globe, in which he noted the similarities between the New York and Oklahoma bombings. In addition to Cannistrero’s stature as one of the world’s foremost counterterrorist experts, he had specific information to lend authority to his evaluation. He had received a call on the day of the bombing from one of the highest placed sources in the Middle East, the head of Saudi Arabia’s Intelligence Service, who also happens to be King Fahd’s son. According to documents filed in the Oklahoma bombing trial, Cannistrero was told that Saddam Hussein had hired seven Pakistani terrorists (Yousef is Pakistani) to bomb targets in the U.S., one of which was the Murrah Building. Cannistrero then called one of the FBI’s top terrorist investigators, Special Agent Kevin Foust, to pass on the information.

Thank you again.

The size and shape of the heads are totally different.

It's impossible to tell the size of their heads from the pictures; however, when the two different pictures are made the same size and merged you can see that everything matches except the jaw line at the side (including the way the widow's peak leans slightly over to one side on both of them.)

True, the lower half of the face is thinner on Azmath. He might have lost 15 pounds or so and 5 o'clock shadow might make him look thinner there.

I have to agree I am concerned about the lower jaw and the upper lip.

1. Ayub Khan, 2. Mohammed Azmath, --3.Azmath/Doe ---4. John Doe #2

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